Why did Anakin 'have to' be a little boy?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Darth_Howell_III, Mar 27, 2005.

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  1. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    PM = Anakin, an innocent little moppett.

    AOTC = Whiny, spoiled, and petulant.

    What events at the end of TPM caused this? Nothing. It's not shown.


    Yes we are shown it. Begining of the movie" He gives without thinking of reward"

    Then He's taken from his mother

    He misses her, he's coldd and confused.

    He gets critized by Yoda for being fearful (Notte his reaction.. defensive)

    He gets rejected by the Jedi Council

    Then Obi-wan calls him dangerous right in fromnt of Qui-Gon..so he's thinking that he's a troublemaker.

    Then Qui-Gon dies. Remember who mayde the comment "No body can kill a Jedi!"

    At the end of the film, the former jooyouus , impish little boy has a fearful look in his face as he turns to Obi-wan "What is to become of me?"

    This is the first time he even shows a bit of cconcern about his own fate. He iis now ware of himself and how VUNERABLE he is in the galaxy.

    Despite Obi-wan reassurance, they guy tthat called him dangerous...Anakin knows that the ccouncil didn't want him....

    Strangely enough, for a movie that supposiddly no character development...I just showed you the Main characters growth. It wasn't a positive one now was it?

    Lucas was attemting not to be blatant about everything.
  2. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    The love story in AotC would have gained pounds in drama if Anakin were a little older in TPM, to show us a more mature emotional bond with Padme than what we're ultimately given. This comment, however only pertains to the theatrical release in which one scene is all there is to show that Padme and Anakin are somewhat caring toward each other and little more. The dvd version shows Anakin's apprehension to leaving Padme's side, which IMO we would have seen more of had he been written as an older kid. Good idea to put it back in the film though.

    AotC also alludes to some deep emotional bond that hardly exists in TPM.

    "I've been dying a little each day since you came back into my life..."

    She says in TPM that her 'caring' will remain (beyond this film of course).

    Caring, huh?

    We needed some sexual tension.

  3. WLDB Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2004
    star 4
    Sexual tension in TPM? Even if he were a few years older it would be weird. Padme was all of 13 in TPM.
  4. BasherTroll05 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2005
    star 2
    ShaneP posted on 3/30/05 12:32pm

    TPM = Anakin, an innocent little moppett.

    AOTC = Whiny, spoiled, and petulant.

    What events at the end of TPM caused this? Nothing. It's not shown.

    />

    It's called being a teenager.

    And Howell, I'd post Lucas' quoted reasons for introducing Anakin as a child, but I doubt you'd even read it. You seem to have "figured out" Lucas "real" reason, so why don't you quit the drama and get to your point before we all lose intrest.

    Wait, too late. I-)/>/>
  5. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    The love story in AotC would have gained pounds in drama if Anakin were a little older in TPM, to show us a more mature emotional bond with Padme than what we're ultimately given.

    That was part of the point, though - it wasn't an entirely mature reunion. Certainly it should grow over time on into ROTS, but in AOTC, their own flaws and inexperience play an integral part in why their marriage collapses later on. It's slammed into our heads throughout AOTC right and left that Anakin has some serious growing up to do. He's emotionally awkward with Padme, his feelings stunted by his own confused psychology stemming from his past and the clashing Jedi principles. Even Padme stumbles through immaturity, as love and emotional intimacy were not things she had experienced in all of her 24 years. Ironically, she is much like Anakin, attempting to repress a true nature in order to reflect serenity and perfection.


    This comment, however only pertains to the theatrical release in which one scene is all there is to show that Padme and Anakin are somewhat caring toward each other and little more. The dvd version shows Anakin's apprehension to leaving Padme's side, which IMO we would have seen more of had he been written as an older kid. Good idea to put it back in the film though.

    An older Anakin would have been more emotionally developed and probably wouldn't have been so attached. Part of Anakin's apprehension and clinginess is that leftover "little boy"-ness, that unwillingness to let go of the people he loves and forge on alone. We see it very strongly with Shmi, and once she passes away, it gets transferred to Padme. (Which is fair game for an argument on Anakin possibly having an Oedipus complex, actually.)

    Though, I will say the romance isn't perfect. AOTC is also really hurt by the edited family and conversational scenes between her and Anakin. We see them growing closer together there and opening up emotionally to one another, something that was really needed.


    AotC also alludes to some deep emotional bond that hardly exists in TPM.

    "I've been dying a little each day since you came back into my life..."


    I think you're misintepreting that line. She's referring to how their feelings for each other have impacted and changed her since Anakin entered her life again with the intentions of an adult amorous relationship. Where she was once able to hold back, she can do so no longer. I hate to use the cliche phrase, but Anakin "freed" a part of her emotionally that she spent so many years of her life repressing and denying. And now that she's willing to recognize it, she doesn't believe that they can turn back and live without their love.

    Also, keep in mind that the danger of the moment is probably fueling the melodrama behind her words to him.


    She says in TPM that her 'caring' will remain (beyond this film of course).

    Caring, huh?


    Yeah, caring as far as TPM went, agreed. Still, Anakin and Padme *did* connect in TPM. It obviously wasn't sexual, but it was certainly a friendship of sorts. And it's pretty obvious Anakin's crushing on her - it's a silly little boy crush, but it grows into a man's love by the time AOTC rolls around. The fact that Padme still has the jappor snippet after so many years holds testament to the fact that while TPM Anakin may not have touched her romantically, he certainly made a place for himself in her heart as someone she cared for.

    (As a note, TPM furthers the whole "star crossed lovers" idea by having Anakin declare at one point to Padme that he will marry her someday. When she reminds him of how young he is, he simply replies that he won't be a little boy forever.)


    We needed some sexual tension.

    In TPM? No thanks. :p But it's rampant throughout AOTC, just toned down and made more subtle so it can retain a PG rating.
  6. WLDB Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2004
    star 4
    "(As a note, TPM furthers the whole "star crossed lovers" idea by having Anakin declare at one point to Padme that he will marry her someday. When she reminds him of how young he is, he simply replies that he won't be a little boy forever.)"

    Im glad im not the only one who noticed this. I could have sworn it was in the theatrical release. Yet it isnt in the VHS or the DVD.
  7. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    I believe it was in the novelization and in the comics. Lucas wisely took it out.

    For some strange reason, my brother thought the whole Padme Anakin relationship...was creepy in TPM.
  8. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    Yeah, I thought GL should have left the part about Anakin declaring marriage to Padme back into the film. That was one of the things from the book I was eager to see put back in there in future special editions or whatever.

    That's the sexual tension, not grown-up style sexual tension, just a boy or girl acting like adults... playfully.

    Slave kid, son of a godly force, he knows things...

  9. Nordom Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2004
    star 4
    My thoughts,

    I see and understand the reasons GL had for making Anakin 9-10 in TPM, most of which have been brought up here. But I feel that this brought several drawbacks with it.

    1) The choice of actors to play 9-10 years olds is somewhat limited and Jake Lloyd did not quite pull it off I fell. Sometimes he was ok, other times I felt he was doing line reading.

    2) You had to recast a major role with a new actor to the second film and essentially had to reintroduce the character.

    3) Belivability, you have to make it belivable to have a kid tag along a group of adults or young adults.
    So we have Anakin doing podracing, building C3PO and blowing up the TF ship. Some of this works, some of it does not. The blowing up the TF does not work for me, it was too much of oops, oops, what does this button do? oops, lets try this, oops, oops, oh I blew up the ship. A bigger question, why did Qui-Gon bring Anakin into the palace in the first place? He knew there was going to be fighting and he didn't expect Anakin to fight so why risk Anakins life? he could just have left him with the gungans at their safe place.
    Some of this is to show that he is strong with the force but to me it stretches credibility, would the force give him expert knowledge of robots so that he could build a protocol droid? Flying a figther does require some knowledge about what the buttons and levers actually do. Take an expert formula one driver and plant him in a F-16 jet, would he be able to fly it just because he is an expert car driver?

    4) Character building and character relationship.
    Anakins character changes alot from EP I to II, yes it is natural, most people change quite abit when growing from ten to twenty. But the change is rather abrupt, like I said it is almost like a new character. Also TPM missed an opportunity to start and develop Anakins relationship with other characters. He met Obi-Wan but little else.

    In closing I feel that Anakin did not HAVE to be 9-10 years old, he could have been slightly older with few other changes. GL WANTED him to be young yes but there was no universal law that required Anakin to be that young, and if he had I doubt that anyone would be saying "no Anakin is too old, he should have been 9-10 years old."

    Regards
    Nordom
  10. MatthewZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker's life. His whole life. However, Star Wars films do not employ the use of "flashbacks" or "jumps in time". Therefore the first Star Wars movie had to have Anakin as young as he could be and still be a viable main character. The age decided upon by Lucas was 10.
  11. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    The love story in AotC would have gained pounds in drama if Anakin were a little older in TPM, to show us a more mature emotional bond with Padme than what we're ultimately given.

    Thing is, the AOTC "love" story wasn't supposed to be a mature, emotional bond. It's about two people who, for similiar reasons, are emotionally immature and become infatuated with each other and the idea of being in love. They don't know what true love is really about and are unaware that they're running headlong into a dangerous relationship. The "love" story is supposed to be tragic, not warm and fuzzy and charged with sexual tension.
  12. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    *mmmhmmm..**I guess Anakin never really grows up until the end.... :p
  13. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7
    Lukecash

    my brother thought the whole Padme Anakin relationship...was creepy in TPM.

    Maybe because he's a little moppet and she's trying to rob the craddle?

    ""...but my caring for you will remain."

    What caring? Where?

    No,Bashertroll 05, it's called "Lucas made him 9 so he had to jump ahead in episode 2 so he could then make his fall to the darkside in 3 more believable".

    He messed up from the get-go by making him 9.
  14. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Maybe because he's a little moppet and she's trying to rob the craddle?

    Say wha-? Where is she trying to "rob the cradle"?

    ""...but my caring for you will remain."

    What caring? Where?


    The caring she's referring to. And they have several little moments before which show she likes him and cares about him.

    No,Bashertroll 05, it's called "Lucas made him 9 so he had to jump ahead in episode 2 so he could then make his fall to the darkside in 3 more believable".

    He messed up from the get-go by making him 9.


    No he didn't.

    *mmmhmmm..**I guess Anakin never really grows up until the end....

    Huh?
  15. BasherTroll05 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2005
    star 2
    ShaneP posted on 4/1/05 1:56pm
    Lukecash

    my brother thought the whole Padme Anakin relationship...was creepy in TPM.

    Maybe because he's a little moppet and she's trying to rob the craddle?

    ""...but my caring for you will remain."

    What caring? Where?

    No,Bashertroll 05, it's called "Lucas made him 9 so he had to jump ahead in episode 2 so he could then make his fall to the darkside in 3 more believable".

    He messed up from the get-go by making him 9.


    />

    Lucas didn't mess anything up. But if you really feel that way feel free to leave./>/>
  16. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    Shelly, the 'end'...RotJ or is there no such movie and I'm imagining things? :p

    Padme was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right about Anakin being a little boy and living in a dreamworld. I can't see why she married him. "Truly... deeply... love you." Fool.
  17. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    How many fully mature, utterly selfless and independent young people in their early twenties do you really think exist? It's part of the folly of youth - rushing headlong into something because of emotion and not thinking about the consequences of the action, which was exactly what Lucas wanted to get across. Love makes you stupid, honestly, so calling Padme a "fool" would be appropriate, but hardly a case-specific situation, since it's the story of *alot* of young relationships. We sympathize with the character because love is not an easy emotion to overlook or push aside and because we know how tragically her foolhardy decision will play out.

    And, yeah, I had deleted the sentence, and when I rewrote it, I forget to add that it was the TPM *novel* where the marriage reference was made. While I liked the harder push toward destiny, I'm not so sure that's the specific reference I'd want put in...though it certainly gets across how intense an individual Anakin really is.
  18. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    "How many fully mature, utterly selfless and independent young people in their early twenties do you really think exist?"

    Anakin, and even Padme; or so I thought until she went crazy and got married to her useless bodyguard in my version of the film. Here's something I really liked though. All this lovely stuff comes together nicely in the deleted family scene on the dvd. We see how her sister encourages her to express her true, deep, personal desires to settle down with someone, which was entertaining. Anakin was also quite fun to watch in those scenes where he's somewhat nervous and overwhelmed, and reminded of the joys of living with a family which factors into his pure dag nasty explosive anger later on in the film when his family is destroyed. His home was wherever his mom was. w00t.

    It's interesting how mature Anakin actually is in this film. I guess I never really thought about it much. (AotC playing on my screen *skips meadow scene* aaahh lightsabers and blasters... excellent) He's tortured, in pain, but bears it for the good of the galaxy. hmmm, I think it's the the things acting against him that he can't control which have a real impact on how he behaves; like his Achilles heal is his ability to care too much. The intoxicating pressence of Padme for starters. Sola notices what padme must notice too and is trying to resist. It's when Padme's Sexual tension finally SNAPS that we see her true self; and surprisingly she's even MORE passionate and hungry for love than Anakin is.

    She kisses him, leaps back, and finds her center again, saying, "no that was wrong." It works great side by side with her home life in which she realizes to some extent that what's wrong is her not being truthful to herself and it hurts. So I just have to expect to see those sexy scenes back in the next release. (Sexy because of what Padme wears. HELLO00000 NURSE! :-B ) And because it branches into so many different areas for Padme and Anakin's relationship that TPM didn't do. The jappor snippet even makes a comeback in the novel for Aotc during Padme's family visit. How cool is that? Why it's not in the film is anybody's guess. It's going to be back again for the next I think. Anakin wants Padme to remember him and she definetlely does. That's sweet.

    I just don't think it matters whether he's five years younger than padme or five years older than padme. We see him make mature choices in TPM and even in AOTC although like Obi-wan says, he's well... arrogant (unready for the burden of leaving his deepest emotions behind). GL could have easily gotten away with having Anakin be around Padme's age or older IMHO. =D= I've seen momma's boys in plenty of films who were way older than Anakin is in TPM.

    So, say Anakin was.. lets give him 4 yrs. Lets say he's 13 or 14 like Padme. He's already into girls. He likes beautiful angels. It's all good. Heck it's difficult to believe Anakin's only 9 in TPM, he's such a precocious little thing compared to his goofy friends in "The pallie gang." What would we lose? He'd be even MORE attached to his mom. The Council's decision to train him would be even MORE controversal, making what we now know about RotS come to a "Well no wonder he's PO'd about not being treated fairly. He makes poor choices, but I can understand his warped logic from a certain point of view." moment. I would have liked that. I would have also liked C3PO to be the droid that serves Qui and Obi their drinks at the beginning of the film, who is then dragged into the fire fight with the jedi and brought to Naboo after helping them get stowed away on cargo ships (or being tricked into it anyway). LOL... imagine it, it the first thing that came to mind when I saw the droid... good times, the 90s. I came up with a little dialogue to go with it too.. ok I'll stop.

    Thanks for reading.

    *Don't drink and drive*
  19. SkottASkywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Why did Anakin 'have to' be a little boy?

    It absolutely works as is. :cool:
  20. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    Anakin, and even Padme; or so I thought until she went crazy and got married to her useless bodyguard in my version of the film.

    Well, of course. These people could not get where they were without being mature. My statement is regarding people who are utterly mature, which Padme and Anakin are not. And this immaturity in different aspects of their life transform into flaws that lead to their downfall. In that vein, everyone is immature in some way or another.


    Here's something I really liked though. All this lovely stuff comes together nicely in the deleted family scene on the dvd. We see how her sister encourages her to express her true, deep, personal desires to settle down with someone, which was entertaining. Anakin was also quite fun to watch in those scenes where he's somewhat nervous and overwhelmed, and reminded of the joys of living with a family which factors into his pure dag nasty explosive anger later on in the film when his family is destroyed. His home was wherever his mom was. w00t.

    Absolutely agreed. It's more or less unanimous consensus by fans that it was a mistake to edit these scenes out.


    It's interesting how mature Anakin actually is in this film. I guess I never really thought about it much. (AotC playing on my screen *skips meadow scene* aaahh lightsabers and blasters... excellent) He's tortured, in pain, but bears it for the good of the galaxy.

    Certainly, but the point is that while Anakin is very mature in certain aspects of his life, he's very emotionally immature. He can't handle certain things the way an adult should, which is mostly centered around his inability to detach himself from people and accept death/loss. Otherwise, we can certainly see a growing maturity even in his relationship with Padme - for someone they call a stalker, after all, people fail to point out that as soon as she rejected him, he kept his hands and eyes to himself.


    hmmm, I think it's the the things acting against him that he can't control which have a real impact on how he behaves; like his Achilles heal is his ability to care too much. The intoxicating pressence of Padme for starters. Sola notices what padme must notice too and is trying to resist. It's when Padme's Sexual tension finally SNAPS that we see her true self; and surprisingly she's even MORE passionate and hungry for love than Anakin is.

    Oooh, definitely agreed. You have most of Anakin's psychological down pat. It's not just that Anakin feels, it's that he feels too much. He's a very intense young man, which ultimately becomes his downfall because he lacks the maturity to gain restraint and control. You could argue Padme's the exact opposite. She's overly repressed, to the point where she denies herself something that should be given emotion. Padme is used to holding everything back and not releasing it. So when the tidewater breaks, it's a flood.


    She kisses him, leaps back, and finds her center again, saying, "no that was wrong." It works great side by side with her home life in which she realizes to some extent that what's wrong is her not being truthful to herself and it hurts. So I just have to expect to see those sexy scenes back in the next release. (Sexy because of what Padme wears. HELLO00000 NURSE! nerd )

    Yes, and her family works well as a character unit to verbally adress Padme's problems in a subtle, gentler manner than what the audience can intepret. It also shows the audience that Padme does in fact have that warmer, familial side, and by inviting Anakin into her rooms, she's slowly integrating him into her intimate world.


    And because it branches into so many different areas for Padme and Anakin's relationship that TPM didn't do. The jappor snippet even makes a comeback in the novel for Aotc during Padme's family visit. How cool is that? Why it's not in the film is anybody's guess. It's going to be back again for the next I think. Anakin wants Padme to remember him and she definetlely does. That's sweet.

    I think it's because the novel is writ
  21. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    He had to be young so Jedi Council could train him, but not *this young*. I think Lucas should have make Anakin to be the same age as . That would be normal considering love story later and it would be acceptable for his training.
  22. Azhrei Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 1
    Actually, the Council were unwilling to take him on because he WAS so old - most Jedi are taken as infants because any older, and they develop a connection with their mothers. At nine, Anakin is already too old to be even considered to be trained - however, and at first they turn him away. When he joins the battle over Naboo, he shows his powerful connection to the Force, and when the Council arrive, they agree that Qui-Gon was right - he must be trained.

    Anakin's tragedy is that much greater in RotS because of how young he was in Phantom Menace.
  23. openmind Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    The little boy Anakin to me is an important aspect. If he was older (say 14 - 18) his attachment to his mother would be less. The ages from 14 onwards is a more of a time when children would like to do things on their own, without too much parent interference. A 14 year old onwards also would be going through puberty and would like to discover things on their own as well.

    In this case, Anakin leaving his mother is just one part. The other is being a child (called "too old" ) shows that the Jedi want children who are basically reliant on the Jedi Master to student relationship. That would be the family attachment. Being "attached" to the Jedi way, etc. There is no doubt the Jedi do have "attachments" in the sense, to believe in their jobs, their attitudes to the Jedi order must be all the more concrete.

    The "tragedy" (which we know in the future)is supposed to happen (how is the question) will be that much more effective.





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