Why did Luke marry mara jade?

Discussion in 'Milwaukee, WI' started by jedi_kiss_rock_, Jun 12, 2002.

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  1. jedi_kiss_rock_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 1
    If it is not permitted for a jedi to marry why was luke allowed to do so? was it because the council was no more?

    thx
    jedi kiss rock
  2. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    Starwars.com says that when Luke reinstated the Jedi Order, he abolished the ban on Jedi marriage.

    As to why he married Mara Jade specifically, I'd guess it's 'cause she's played by Shannon Baksa, who is super hott!
  3. jedi_kiss_rock_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 1
    hey thanks
    jedi kiss rock
  4. TwistyMaeSkywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 2
    I'll second that.

    -shifty glance-

    erm...
  5. LeiaYT1300 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 3
    That's one of the few things I agreed with in the EU fiction--that Luke abolished the ban on marriage. Makes complete sense to me!

    But *shudder*, did he have to fall for Mara? I mean, talk about being stereotypical--the assassin falls for her prey, yadda yadda...

    I don't know--I guess I always felt it would be some girl other than Mara, since it just seemed too convenient. They wanted him married, and she just happened to be there. Having read too many romance novels for my own good, I was just disgusted and bored with the notion.

    Besides, I liked Gaeriel, personally--a much more complex character and an interesting match for Luke. But then again, in my own humble opinion, anyone would've been better than Mara.

    As for Shannon Baksa herself, I can certainly see why the men would drool. ;)
  6. Skywalker1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 3
    Thanks LeiaYT1300 for justifying my own point of view. I think if it was going to be any of the SW Universe characters we already know, then Gaeriel Captison would have been the best candidate. "Truce at Bakura" is also the only book I can deal with outside of the Classic Trilogy (save for Splinter of the Mind's Eye). I've read the Zahn books and from then on I couldn't handle the new stuff anymore. It doesn't seem ethical for Luke to have married Mara Jade. She was going to kill him and now she married him? And what's up with their kid's name after Ben? The stories have become too weird and unbelievable to me these days--before they added the new series of books things were better. Therefore, when I move in August, life-size Yoda will still sit in my livingroom, and my autograph collection will sit out, but I don't collect new merchandise, toys or books because the new stories never made me believe in them.

    This is why I'm a Classic Trilogy Fan and can't deal with a lot of the new stuff. AOTC is the first interesting thing that's come around in a while, and even as much as I love it there I have my issues with the history it's changing too. Anakin Growing Up is interesting though!
  7. marajoan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 3
    It was not a last minute thing that he married Mara and Timothy Zahn had to fight to get Lucas to allow it. Gaerial Capiston died in the Corellian Trilogy. She didn't trust a relationship with Luke and married an imperial. If you don't read the EU books, you couldn't have seen how a number of authors were building a story in which Mara and Luke would get together. They are a good match and complement each other. All the other women abandoned Luke and left him hanging. There also was no character that could have shared his Jedi life except Mara. The whole idea of him being some sort of lonely Jedi priest like Lucas seemed to want was stupid.
    As for the ban on marriage, where were little Jedi going to come from if you didn't let the Jedi reproduce. I have this theory that the Jedi of the Episode II era were stuck in a rut and needed to shake up the order a little. That is why they were losing power and were destroyed. Luke and Leia and those that escaped the purge would rebuild it and improve on it. Marriage was one of the improvements.
    Skywalker, you need to give the EU a shot. Truce at Bakura is not one of the better books. There are many good authors out there if you give them a chance.
  8. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    "All the other women abandoned Luke and left him hanging."

    Sounds familiar. :(
  9. Skywalker1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 3
    Nope, I still don't appreciate the story of Luke and Mara. I'm VERY PRO CLASSIC TRILOGY. The new stuff: It's done, so it's out there... but the ideas are not of the Star Wars universe in my opinion, and even the Zahn books are too much like Trek for me. I remember when the new books first started coming out I was very excited! ...then I read them.

    As for the ban on marriage for Jedi I think it's irrelevant. Either you are strong with the force and have potential or you don't. The midichlorian thing is new and "whatever" as far as I'm concerned.

    When I imagine Luke, I see him alone or on an adventure finding someone--and you mentioned Gaeriel is gone in the new books and had married an imperial... that's very much against her idea of "balance" and again I don't believe what they've put out there on the racks. This is why I shut out a lot of the new stuff. The kids' books are kids books and I can't imagine Luke with Mara. When that story came out I thought the author was in it for the money.

    I know you love her character and you're entitled to, but I've been a Luke Skywalker fan my whole life too and have an entirely different opinion of Mara. She's pretty and a strong woman according to what I've read, but even when I started reading the newest book about their child, I got so nausiated I had to give up on it. As you have strong feelings about this, so do I. Nothing against Mara as a person--just her marriage to Luke--I can't see Luke going through with it. We'll simply have to respect our differences.

    *eats R2-D2 pez*
  10. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    Well, I don't really know if I'm entitled to have an opinion on the issue since I've never read the book. With no knowledge of what led up to the relationship, I'd say it's a bit strange that he married his own assassin. If I knew the whole story I might feel differently, but I honestly don't feel like investing my time in the books. I'm struggling through the film novelizations as it is.

    Huked on fonix wurked fore mee!
  11. jedi_kiss_rock_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 1
    wow,
    i did know you guys would go at it like this. after all its just a book.
    thx
    jedi kiss rock
  12. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    He did forgive Kyp Duron, who killed a billion people. I hate that way more than I hate Luke marrying Mara. Then again, I'm against an invincible ship too, and really anything that Kevin J Anderson did.

    I think everyone that doesn't understand him falling for his assassin is forgetting the key fact that he tried to redeem his father. His father directly helped in the building of two death stars, and the destruction of one planet. He also killed Luke's mentor, Obi Wan, put his friend Han in a mold, and threatened to turn his sister to the dark side. If Luke can forgive that, he can forgive the women who failed to kill him. I think part of the Jedi order is forgiveness (too much so in the case of Kyp, I have to side with Corran on that one). It might even be a little predictable, as Leia argued in her post, but it's also a high honor to Zahn to see that his character was allowed to join so strongly with the major characters.

    Last, I have no problem with EU, unlike Skywalker. My main thing is that I treat it like a salad bar at a restaurant. I like salads, but I don't like radishes, onions, or raw broccoli. You really have to pick what to put on your plate, and what to leave. I don't accept Kevin J Anderson's writing, but I accept Zahn's. I don't like the comic book where Luke fights an emperor clone and goes dark, but I like the Rogue and Wraith books. If there were no EU, then Star Wars would be limited to six movies, and for some of us that isn't enough. The classic trilogy will always be the pinnacle of Star Wars to me. Star Wars will always remain stormtroopers and X-wings, but I like that it goes on. I also like parallel stories to it, like finding out the lives of the cantina people. Again, pick and choose, but to deny it altogether is to miss out on some good things. Granted, I will always think that of all the characters, Luke is the one character that gets screwed up the most in the books. I usually disagree with the author's treatment of him. Characters that are created by the authors almost always point out Luke's faults or failures, and the authors go out of their way to make Luke seem more like the Luke from the first thirty minutes of ANH, and less like Luke from the last seven hours of the original trilogy. I

    Dwayne
  13. Bishop76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 3
    I heard something on Bob and Brian today that I had to share (cuz I agree with it)

    Bob or Brian (they sound the same): So, you only liked the original trilogy? [and nothing else]

    Caller: Yeah, that's right.

    B or B: You know what you're called then, right? A snob.

    (This isn't an exact quote, but it's close)

    Not meant to be mean, just something that made me laugh...

    Jeff
  14. LeiaYT1300 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 3
    Hey Jeff! I heard that Bob and Brian blip yesterday, too--and I think they did call her a snob! Very funny! :p

    As for Mara, I don't hate her character, I just loathe the marriage. Like I said, I find it very predictable. Romance, marriage and other extant subjects of that ilk are something that the EU books/authors have never handled well at all, which is why I stopped reading them (except for the Denning e-book, where hope flared in my breast, then just as quickly sputtered and died--it's all so tragic!). And being an avid romance novel reader, I feel can say that with confidence.

    "Courtship of Princess Leia" was a perfect example of what not to do with the characters and how not to handle romance. (I mean, Isolder was such a "Mary Sue"--yikes! Like being thrust into Fabio hell for the sake of a romantic catalyst--i.e. the easy way out!).

    And while I enjoyed the Zahn books, mostly, I could see the Mara/Luke thing from a thousand miles away. And it was disappointing. I felt like the authors were again taking the easy way out, either due to their discomfort with creating a real good romance and love for Luke (it's not easy with such a complex character to come up with the right woman) or blatant laziness. To me, Mara seemed to fill a quota for the authors. And somehow, it doesn't surprise me that Lucas was initially against it... if what I hear is true...

    I will admit my perception is corrupted, in the fact that I am such a romance nut. And there are books out there, written by little known authors, even in the scifi/fantasy mainstream, that are wonderful in the romantic thread--so it can be done, and eloquently, too. My favorite is Glenna McReynolds' "Prince of Time" (ignore the title--they always stink). It was so like Star Wars and so brilliant, I've read it over 5 times in as many years!

    I don't mean to rain on your parade, Joan. It's not my place to tell anybody how they should feel about anything. Everyone's opinion here is valid, and that's what makes it all so wonderful. So I wholly respect your beliefs on the Mara/Luke match, and I hope I haven't crunched any toes with my commentary.

    But I still thank the stars for fanfiction! :D
  15. TwistyMaeSkywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 2
    I'll throw another two cents into the whole idea...

    Personally, I have absolutely no problem with Luke marrying Mara. Yes, it was slightly predictable towards the end, and the way they got together was really cheesy and cliche, but the idea itself was good.

    Gaeriel reminded me too much of a fundamentalist Christian for my tastes. Plus, if she was going to let her religion dictate who she loved, then she wasn't ever going to fall for Luke. I dismissed her after Truce at Bakura.

    As for Anderson...well, I think his books should be banned from the EU permanently. Along with everything about Calista. Ugh. Words cannot describe how much she made me want to vomit.

    I agree with Dwayne about the salad bar metaphor: you have to pick and choose what you personally buy in the scheme of things. I have a friend who adores almost everything (minus Anderson and the Calista fiasco) but she refuses to read any NJO book because she doesn't like the way that series started off. Also, that series is big on messing up character personalities, especially Mara and the whole baby thing. But like it's been said before, everything is personal opinion and it's up to you whether you accept it as part of the star wars universe or not.

    I can't rant anymore. I'm just not in the proper mindset for it. ;)

  16. Idaara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 3
    I like the salad bar analogy. I've been reading the books in the EU, but I've never gotten into the comic books much (although I have Dark Empire I & II and Union) or the games and rules books. My main complaint in the EU is more with the relationsip with Han and Leia than Luke and Mara. Han and Leia on the verge of a divorce? That bugged the heck out of me.

    Also, I don't think that Luke "lifted the ban" on Jedi marriage as some have put it. I don't think he knows fully what the rules of the Council were, otherwise wouldn't he be looking for younger recruits instead of those that just come to him? I think he's flying by the seat of his pants on the rules...

    As for Kyp, even Dark Jedi return to the Light...aren't they worthy of forgiveness?
  17. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    I kind of find all romance predictable though. If there's a male character who isn't linked up, spending a lot of time with a female character who isn't with anyone, then no matter what they are (criminal and lawyer, general and private, king and pauper) you know they're going to end up together. Was anyone surprised that Han and Leia ended up together? I admit I don't read romances, and I avoid romance movies like the plague, but there are only two possible endings to a romance: A) Man and woman fall in love and stay together, B) Man and woman fall in love, but social matters keep them apart (See Merchant Ivory films for examples). Just like there are only two endings to sci-fi/action movies: A) Good guy wins, B) Bad guy wins. I think it's the getting there that's different. But my tastes, and my familiarity with the genre of romance are different than Beret's. Things aren't as predictable or dull to someone that's not familiar with the genre. I do have one complaint about the relationship (and I'm only on the second NJO book, so, not sure where it goes from here) and that is that it seems to have dulled Mara. I think the whole melodrama around this disease (not a big melodrama kind of guy) is making her seem more clingy. I prefer the gritty, tough-as-nails Mara, not Mara the huggy type.

    As for Kyp, yeah there is forgiveness, but there's also attonement and punishment. I generally don't like his character, so that might influence things, but he ran off, killed a few billion people, and is right back in the fold. Temporary darkness shouldn't get you out of that one. Then again, I see him as a one sided, not very interesting character. Maybe I want him to have jail time just so he won't be around any more. We should purge the entire EU of anything KJA did while we're at it...
  18. Bishop76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 3
    Wampas, how can you say you want to ban all things KJA? After all, he did give us that thrilling story about IG-88 and his brain transfer to the second Death Star.

    Speaking of Death Stars, nobody in the business has given us more Death Stars than KJA. The Maw Prototype Death Star and the Darksaber were really cool ideas.

    Now that's good fiction!

    (Please note the use of heavy sarcasm)

    Jeff
  19. LeiaYT1300 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 3
    You've got a point, certainly, Wampa. In many ways, romance can be awfully and often predictable. Alot of movies and books demonstrate this.

    However, romance done right can avoid predicatability easily, and make for a better experience. I think the triangle between Han, Leia and Luke did this very well. Granted, Leia professed her love for Han in ESB, but immediately following he was out of the picture, and Luke was back in it, and with a year to go until Han's rescue, the viewer was still left hanging as to whom she would choose until Obi-Wan's revelations in ROTJ. I mean there's loving someone, and there's loving someone. I remember alot of people talking about who Leia would pick before ROTJ came out, and it made the romance rather exciting.

    The romance between Mara and Luke never had such a tension to begin with. There was little keeping them from each other. And Callista was never a strong enough character to ever threaten Mara's hold on him. She was never convincing enough. So that's one reason why I feel the Luke/Mara match was so predicatable, and boring. Plus, there was never a really strong battle of wills (at least not a witty one--it was often too serious to bear) for two such characters who were outwardly on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Clever authors can really make romance very good, if they know what they are doing. But these EU authors are chiefly scifi/fantasy--based, and while they do that very well, they aren't suited for romance.

    And yes, I do think Mara got very clingy and mushy during her disease, and it's very melodramatic. I would have thought she would have been a little tougher, too.

    Again, this is my opinion--please don't hurt me! :D
  20. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    Most of the above is Dwayne so this is Marcy now =)


    About the whole Mara/Luke romance thing. Frankly, Mara Jade for me is probably the single most interesting character in the Star Wars EU. (No offense to LeiaYT1300 here so brace yourself) Leia while she was the prototype for the new woman in Sci/Fi that being that she wasn't clad in poorly designed revealing outfits where boobies are oozing in several directions at once (well the GOLDEN BIKINI (I think most men hear angelic voices at the mention of that) but that was a single instance) Leia was smart, tough, and a leader. Mara had oomph and verve. She was flawed and nasty and wonderful to read about. Now I'll admit I haven't even made it through Vector prime, time doesn't allow me much reading. But so far, the whole illness thing is turning Mara into Leia and that's soooooo wrong. Mara was good because she would go where Luke wouldn't and do what he couldn't. She was dark, brooding and completely ruthless until it really counted. My single favorite EU character (except Thrawn). I just hope they don't mess her up and turn her all gooey. Romance belongs in romance novels. There should be a hint of the flavor of it in Star Wars but shouldn't be hanging out on your breath for a week....


    Just my two cents.:)

    Marcy
  21. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    You know, several EU authors actually post here occasionally under their real names. If the inclination arose, you could actually pose a question or concern directly to them in the Lit forum. :)

    Oh, Peter Mayhew has an account here too.
  22. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    Marcy noticed that RASalvatore had an account, wrote to him and got a response. The fact that he answered, and gave a good explanation about how he was told to kill Chewie, are the reasons we bought Vector Prime.

    Dwayne
  23. Skywalker1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 3
    I don't keep counts on the new authors' names, but if someone could list me the EU author for the marriage of Mara and Luke I'd love to have a word.

    -A Classic Trilogy Snob
  24. solo414 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 4
    Why would anybody want to marry Luke in the first place? I'm sorry, but I'm just not a big fan of his. Now Han on the other hand...
  25. marajoan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 3
    If your only exposure to Mara is in the NJO then you haven't met Mara. There have been numerous complaints about how her characters strengths were stripped away in the NJO. That is why readers were begging for Timothy Zahn to write the last hardcover. As to her assassinating Luke, she never actually tried to do it and Luke angered her by repeatedly telling her he didn't believe she really wanted to. In reality, if you read the Zahn books, Mara redeems Luke, not the other way around. She really has a better set of values as to loyalty and such. There is an interesting discussion of the use of the force and not hearing the whispers over all the noise you are making. Luke never got himself situated as to his use of the dark side until it was pointed out. Now, he is the straight arrow again in the NJO. Things were more black and white with Mara where Luke was dealing too much in the gray area. They also talked about the motivation for doing things and how the dark side didn't touch Mara because her motivations were not selfish.
    George Lucas was not against Luke marrying Mara, he was against Luke marrying at all. I think that he didn't have as much depth to him when he was always on the outside looking in in regard to relationships. There was far to much time spent on Leia worrying about him instead of concentrating on her own relationship with Han.
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