PT Why did Padme think Dooku was behind the attack

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Teegirloo, Mar 5, 2013.

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  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In Revenge of the Sith Darth Vader uses his blue lightsaber despite being a bad guy.
  2. Sistros Force Ghost

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    Jul 24, 2010
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    to tie in with a film called ANH
  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    True- but if "Bad guys use red lightsabers" was as important as all that, Anakin's lightsaber could have changed from blue in his hand, to red, after he helped Sidious with Mace, and when Obi-Wan picks it up, back again, with "The Force" being the reason for the colour change.
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  4. Sistros Force Ghost

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    that would have been pathetic :p
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  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    Perhaps it would. Still, it was a common theory, until the EU clarified that it doesn't matter whether you're Dark or not- it's the type of crystal that matters.
  6. Darth Venator Jedi Master

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    Mar 1, 2013
    star 1
    I like the theory, actually. It seems a little silly at first, but it depends on how you perceive the Force - if you prefer the unexplained, mysterious magical phenomenon - then colour-changing blades aren't so unfeasible. The notion that the lightsaber is an 'extension' of the one wielding it could be nicely reinforced if it reacted to light or dark energies within the user.

    But hey, crystals with status-symbolic colours aren't all bad either. Personally, I don't mind so much either way.
  7. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    eh, it's a bit too fantasy-ish to me the changing of the blade colour dependent on who's weilding it,

    I expect that in Willow not Star Wars :p

    unless on topic that accounts for how Padme knew Dooku was behind the attack..

    magic told her.
    Last edited by Sistros, Mar 27, 2013
  8. Cryogenic Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    Or Frodo's stupid glowing sword in LOTR.

    The colour change would have been cool, but I like the idea that assembling the crystals in the right fashion takes some mastery, and the colour than becomes fixed in place: an expression of a user's identity at that specific moment in time.

    Plus... all that symbolism with Anakin using blue. Off the charts, man. Off the charts.

    Beyond the simple, clear, precise explanation that Jedi_Ford_Prefect offered at the start of the thread, that's not a ridiculous answer. Not for Star Wars.

    The powers of these mortal players wax and wane. Padme seems to have perceptions beyond the Jedi in some areas -- like when the clones show up on Geonosis.

    She could have gleaned some intimation that Dooku was behind it through the Force. That might not be a particularly reliable, cast-iron type of an insight, but it seems superior to what the Jedi come out with.

    I like the sense of superiority coming off Mace (and Ki-Adi-Mundi) in that scene. They're practically fuming, "Shut up, little girl. The adults know better." These Jedi are, in fact, quick to co-opt/consume feminine aspects and ideas for their own purposes, like the lady-shave that became a communicator as used by Qu-Gon Jinn in TPM.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Mar 27, 2013
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  9. Darth Venator Jedi Master

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    Mar 1, 2013
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    Yes. Definitely magic! Or my usual explanation 'Palpatine made it happen' works just as well :p

    I think the Dooku thing was pretty poorly executed, much in the same way that Grievous was - to me, they both felt like they were slapped on screen and you had to just accept that they were bad guys because everyone else said so.

    Would a few more minutes to establish them and their motives a little more really be that harmful? It'd beat the 'DOOKU DID THIS' and the 'WE MUST APPREHEND GRIEVOUS, HE'S BEEN A NAUGHTY BOY!' dialogue.
  10. TheDisharmony Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Lucas logic that's why [face_laugh]
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  11. Sistros Force Ghost

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    I think the Dooku thing was pretty poorly executed, much in the same way that Grievous was - to me, they both felt like they were slapped on screen and you had to just accept that they were bad guys because everyone else said so.
    ----------

    the thing that gets me is that Dooku's alliegence was supposed to be somewhat ambiguous until he activated his sith lightsaber (i believe it was Burtt who said this) so why they hint at him being the one behind the attack at the beginning of the movie is puzzling, especially since Padme is the kind of character that the audiance "believes",

    now lets say Jar Jar had come in and said "Mesa thinks that count Dooku wasa behind these-a assassinations you' honnaaa" then the audiance (well half anyway) would likely to think, "oh that bumbling buffoon must be wrong"

    Having Padme burst in all confidently in the second scene saying "count Dooku was behind it all" somehow kills the mystery.
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  12. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    If you ask me, There were too many vague plot lines in the Prequels that were left unexplained. Sure, I understand how some people don't like everything spelled out for them, but some people don't see it that way.


    -TPM-

    The Trade Federation's motives. What was in it for them, when considering they had so much to lose. Was it Naboo's resources? What? Tell us.

    Why is Obi-Wan still being trained by another master, when Yoda was said to have originally trained him. Was Qui-Gon's training any different from what Yoda had to train him? Tell us, because some people think it's a retcon and that Qui-Gon was his only master.

    Why do the people of Naboo elect kids to be their rulers? Are they royals who are elected by other royals that share in their power over this world? Or are they normal people who believe in a democracy being led by whomever they choose, regardless of age, color, creed or even status? Why dress them as kings and queens, then? Explain it so some of us know.

    The balance of the Force. What the hell is it really? Who foretold it? When? How? What is it? Again, something that was never clarified in the later films.

    -AOTC-

    Padme. Again showing distrust to Jedi willing to protect her. Why does she think Dooku is out to get her?

    Dooku. What's his story? Why did someone as prominent as a Jedi master want to leave the Jedi Order? What were the reasons, and how did he fall to a Sith Lord, being a Jedi Master and all? Did he willingly side with the Sith? And why does he call himself Count Dooku, now?

    The Jango Fett dual alliances. What did the Jedi think about it? Why didn't the Jedi question it further and let us know they were on to this deception, whether they cared about it or not after the fact? Did they accept that maybe Sifo-Dyas, with the foresight, took the initiative in creating an army for a war that would be coming in the near future? I mean, since the army was now theirs anyway, it would have been nice to know that they didn't have their heads in the clouds.

    Anakin and Padme. Why don't they just say that Jedi and Senators aren't supposed to have love affairs? Just say it.

    -ROTS-

    General Grievous? Who and what is he? How did he become a cyborg? Did it happen during the war? And why do they call him General Grievous? Tell us!

    Anakin's birth. Did Plagueis create him or not? Ugh!

    Too many things left unsaid. I'm sure there are more of them, too.
  13. ILNP Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2011
    star 1
    I know this is not a popular answer, but the EU answers a lot of these questions.
  14. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    The taxation of trade routes to outlaying star systems is in dispute.
    Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the small planet of Naboo.

    1.) It is a retcon.
    2.) The creation of the character of Qui-Gon had a lot of motivations, but that's irrelevant for the plot.

    1.) Because they are a society different from ours. Going by the experience in my country, I'm not sure if we would lose too much if we gave kids a chance.
    2.)
    PADME: I wasn't the youngest Queen ever elected, but now that I think back on it, I'm not sure I was old enough. I'm not sure I was ready.
    ANAKIN: The people you served thought you did a good job. I heard they tried to amend the Constitution so you could stay in office.

    OBI-WAN: It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. Bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness.

    1.) When did Padmé show distrust? She didn't want to be protected. That's all.
    2.) Probably because they were political opponents.

    1.) WINDU: Count Dooku is a political idealist.
    2.) COUNT DOOKU: As I explained to you earlier, I'm quite convinced that ten thousand more systems will rally to our cause with your support, gentlemen. And let me remind you
    of our absolute commitment to capitalism... of the lower taxes, the reduced tariffs, and the eventual abolition of all trade barriers. Signing this treaty will bring you profits beyond your wildest imagination. What we are proposing is completely free trade. (looks at Nute) Our friends in the Trade Federation have pledged their support. When their Battle Droids are combined with yours, we shall have an army greater than anything in the galaxy, The Jedi will be overwhelmed. The Republic will agree to any demands me make.
    3.) COUNT DOOKU: Don't be so sure, my young Jedi. You forget that he was once my apprentice just as you were once his. He knew all about the corruption in the Senate, but he would never have gone along with it if he had known the truth as I have.
    Your other question is irrelevant. Why did Darth Vader call himself Darth Vader?

    Who says the didn't?

    I don't understand that question either.
    ANAKIN: Attachment is forbidden.
    That's not clear enough?

    They call him General Grievious because he is a General?!?!?!
    He is commander of the droid army.
    How did Tarkin get to his position? How did Boba become a bounty hunter (AOTC ignored)?

    You're free to choose whatever option you want. Neither is wrong. Isn't that nice?

    A lot of things you mentioned were said. However, I would very much like to see "more of them".
    Last edited by Samnz, Apr 2, 2013
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  15. Samnz Force Ghost

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    star 3
    double
    Last edited by Samnz, Apr 2, 2013
  16. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I'm not going to argue with you, but...again with the books having to fill in details? (Sigh) I'm so sick of hearing that from some of you guys. Sorry, but that's a piss poor excuse for any filmmaker. Don't get me wrong, I still love all six films, but the Prequels need some editing. And I mean all three of them, too. :(

    {Darth Maul is another mystery that should have been explored, too. Who he was? Where did he came from? What did the Jedi uncover about this Sith Lord in the next film? What reasons did the Jedi think he was persuading the Trade Federation to risk all out war? Did the Jedi think that this was just the beginning and that the Sith were planning something bigger? What is a Sith? Why would they be afraid of the Sith anyway, especially knowing there would be only two of them? Why are there only two, anyway? :confused:}
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Apr 2, 2013
  17. ILNP Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2011
    star 1
    The movies can't address every potential question an audience member might have. And frankly some of your questions are rather trivial and would bring nothing to the movie. Why is General Grievous a General? Did you want them to stop the progression of the movie and have a flashback to him getting promoted? If you really want an answer to these questions, why do you immediately discount an answer that's from the EU. You wanted an answer, we provided.
    Last edited by ILNP, Apr 3, 2013
  18. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I never said why is he a General. I said why call him Grievous of all names. Where did he come from and what was his real name?
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Apr 3, 2013
  19. ILNP Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2011
    star 1
    Far enough but my response is the same. Should we have a flashback to a discussion between his parents about what to name their child? You may not like the EU (heck I don't like everything about it) or even read the EU and that's fine but it's not a very good reason to immediately dismiss an answer provided by it. Especially when that answer neither contradicts, hinders, and actually improves understanding of the movies.

    You asked where did Grievous come from and what was his real name. If I told you that his real name is Bob and he comes from Planet Y where he was a renowned general. The CIS want him to lead their army but to do so obediently. So they engineer an accident that requires him to undergo major surgery (and also allows them to claim he is dead) and during said surgury they alter his mind so that he has no memories of his past but still retains his martial skill. They then put him in charge of their droid armies. Would that help in your desire to know more about Grievous and the background to his character? And if the answer is yes, then we must ask does the movie require you to know this to enjoy it. That answer is of course no. So why not leave the answering of those questions to another medium? They're a companion too, not a contradiction of, the movies. An attempt to more fully flesh out those things that the movies can't (or won't) answer. Is this really a bad thing?
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  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    @Cushing's Admirer I wanted to address this.

    So then why did Dooku and Nute say this?

    NUTE GUNRAY: "What about the Senator from Naboo? Is she dead yet? I'm not signing your treaty until I have her head on my desk."

    COUNT DOOKU: "I am a man of my word, Viceroy."


    Why did Obi-wan say this?

    OBI-WAN: "The Trade Federation is to take taking delivery of a droid army here and it is clear that Viceroy Gunray......is behind the assassination attempts on Senator Amidala."


    And why did Nute and Dooku say this?

    NUTE GUNRAY: "She can't do that! Jango, shoot her or something!"

    DOOKU: "Patience, Viceroy....she will die."
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  21. Commander Krix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 4
    Well, those quotes just show that Sidious wasn't the only one who wanted her dead.
  22. Dandelo Jedi Master

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    Aug 25, 2014
    star 3
    I don't think it was really either the CIS or Sidious that wanted her dead.

    I think it was just Gunray, who was peeved she foiled his plans and embarrassed him because of the events of TPM.
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  23. Malcolm Reynolds Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2013
    star 5
    my thoughts as well
  24. Dandelo Jedi Master

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    Aug 25, 2014
    star 3
    Great minds think alike :p
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  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    Yes, but in order to get him into the Confederacy, Dooku had to arrange for her assassination in order to placate him.

    1. He was Palpatine's Apprentice. Unless you're interested in TCW, there's nothing needed to know about him. Like a lot of characters like Lando, Han and Wedge.

    2. They didn't uncover anything by AOTC.

    3. The Jedi go by what Obi-wan heard.

    DOOKU: "As I explained to you earlier, I'm quite convinced that ten thousand more systems will rally to our cause with your support, gentlemen. Our friends in the Trade Federation have pledged their support. When their Battle Droids are combined with yours, we shall have an army greater than anything in the galaxy. The Jedi will be overwhelmed. The Republic will agree to any demands we make."

    Add in what Palpatine tells Anakin in the galaxies theater...

    PALPATINE: "All those who have power are afraid to lose it."

    The Federation was afraid of losing its power and thus they did what they've done throughout the PT era.

    4. The Jedi know that the Sith want to take over again, but it isn't until Mace is told that Palpatine is Sidious that he figures it out.

    5. A Sith is an evil Jedi.

    6. The Jedi don't fear the Sith. They just don't want them to rule the galaxy again.

    7. Because any more and they'll try to overthrow the other. See Dooku vs Anakin and Vader vs Luke.
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Dec 11, 2014
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