PT Why did Palpatine try to kill Padme

NOT TROLLING

Forgive me if I'm wrong, because although I love the movies, due to my low attention span I've never actually understood the deeper plot of the prequels of Palpatine's plan.

But anyway, as I understand it, Palpatine tried to have Padme assasinated in episode II, right? But what I never really understood was, what was the purpose of this? I get the impression that it was in order to prevent her from voting on the matter of creating a clone army, but if so, why? Didn't Palpatine control both the clone armies and the trade federation? Also, why would he try to kill padme if she was so useful in turning Anakin to the Dark Side?

Thanks for any help.

 

Actually it was Nute Gunray the Neimoidian who insisted on the assassination attempt (it didn't really make sense for the Separatists to do this - but he wanted revenge on her).

 

I don't remember it being apparent that it was Nute Gunray, but do you know when that was explained or implied? Also, if it was Nute Gunray, then why did Palpatine erase the navigation maps for Kamino from the jedi archives?

 

Dooku erased the Kamino data from the archives, probably around the time he quit the order.

 

I think there are two different questions here:

-Why did Palpatine want Padme killed? As it's been said, Padme's death was part of the deal between Dooku and Nute Gunray, and it is unknown if Palpatine knew about that, or if he agreed to the plan. As it turns out, the plot had nothing to do with preventing Padme to vote against the clone army, it was merely a personal revenge.

It can be argued that, even if Palpatine was Ok with the plan, at that point he didn't know Padme and Anakin would fall in love, therefore he couldn't have known Padme was going to be the key to lure Anakin to the dark side. (and it's my believe that turning Anakin to the Dark Side was never hugely important for Palpatine -nor was it needed for him to become the Emperor: it was just a fun, perverse, personal revenge against the Jedi to turn him)

And if Padme was killed in an attack apparently made by the Separatists,it would create a strong vote in the Senate in favour of creating an army of the Republic, which suits Palpatine's plan.

-The second question is: if Palpatine wanted the Republic to use the Clone Army,why did he tried to hide the army from them, erasing the Kamino maps? Probably, he didn't want the Republic to find the army before it was actually ready, and the Separatists were an actual threat.

 

When Obi-Wan spied on the Separatist leaders, he overheard Gunray asking if Padmé was dead yet, and that he wasn't signing the treaty until she was. During the execution scene, he flips out every time she escapes. It's definitely shown in the film.

 

NUTE GUNRAY: "What about the Senator from Naboo? Is she dead yet? I’m not signing your treaty until I have her head on my desk."

Nute wanted revenge for being humiliated by him ten years earlier. Palpatine gave his consent because he didn't need Padme with regards to the Clone Army. He was already setting events in motion where the Jedi would discover the Clone Army and the Droid Army and gain Emergency Powers, which bypasses the Senate in regards to using the clones to fight the war.

 

yeah, it was Nute Gunray that wanted Padme dead, not Palpatine

Palps saw her as

1. an annoyance

2. to drive a wedge between Anakin and the Jedi, to have her killed would have foiled his plans somewhat.

What would have happened after he became emperor however is pure speculation.

 

It was Nute Gunray who wanted her dead. A simple case of revenge

 

Palpatine knows what happened to those Sand People who harmed Anakin's mom. Perhaps he might just decide to leave the guy's wife alone.

"That story about Plagueis you told me yesterday was most illuminating, Master. Its ending reminded me of another tale. Have you ever heard the story of Sand Boss Ruhruh Weewaw the Vile?"

"Well, eh, no...."

"Exactly, Master. Exactly."

 

So, do you think Dooku acted on his own against Palpatine's wishes?

Palpatine didn't necessarily need Padme alive to turn Anakin into the Dark Side.
Palpatine didn't actually need Anakin to become Emperor. He needed a Clone Army and a War.

 

But didn't he say anything to Palpatine about this plan? And was Palpatine Ok with that?

Padme only became useful when Anakin started to have nightmares about her dying -that's when the ability to manipulate the force becomes useful. Did Palpatine create those nightmares?

 

She ended up being useful to his plot by the time of Episode III, but before that I'm pretty sure Palpatine didn't care one way or another whether Padme lived or died. The plot to assassinate her was purely for Gunray's benefit.

 

Dooku was operating under Palpatine's orders. He didn't really care if Padme lived or died. Just so long as the saber dart was used to send the Jedi on their investigation.

 

The saber dart wasn't meant to send anyone on any investigation. It was an oversight on Jango's part. It wasn't supposed to be traceable.

The clone army wasn't supposed to be discovered until later.

 

Palpatine had no intention of letting Padme die. He just wanted to put her in enough danger that she'd be forced to accept a Jedi bodyguard. Of course he would make sure that the Jedi were old friends of Padme's, to assuage Amidala's protests.

By sending assassins after Padme, Palpatine rids himself of an dissenting voice in the Senate and shoves temptation into Anakin's arms. Palpatine probably foresaw that the first bombing attempt would fail (or maybe sabotaged it so it would fail). Once the Jedi were assigned to guard Padme any assassination attempt would pretty much fail.

The whole assassination plot against Padme worked out exactly the way Palpatine had planned. Don't forget that Darth Sidious can foresee the future, and never does anything without a strategy in mind.

 

I don't think Palpatine can see the future in that minute of detail. He can foresee general trends and predict how groups of people will react to things, but that's it. I doubt he can predict that an assassination plot will fail in exactly the right way to send the Jedi on a protracted investigation leading to the clone army. And why would he even bother to set all this up? He could just have Dooku contact the Kaminoans as Tyranus and tell them to let the Republic know their army was ready. Letting a Jedi discover the army as a suspicious part of an investigation into a political assassination attempt, interrogate the assassin, and then trace the assassin back to the Sith Lord he's concurrently working for, was definitely not the optimal strategy.

I agree that Sidious never does anything without a strategy in mind. But in this case the strategy was to appease Gunray so he'd bring his Trade Federation resources into the Separatist fold, and at the same time eliminate the main voice of opposition to the Military Creation Act. Obviously after Zam and Jango failed for the second time and the Jedi insisted on squirreling Padme away on Naboo, he saw a better opportunity in pairing her with Anakin, allowing the more easily controllable Jar Jar to serve in her place during the vote, and putting off the plot to assassinate her for the time being. But as soon as Padme lands on Geonosis, Count Dooku, Palpatine's proxy, once again does everything in his power to try to kill her dead for Gunray's benefit.

His plans were flexible and allowed for Padme both living and dying, but he really was trying to kill her. Otherwise we're just getting into silly "Palpatine can predict what Padme's going to have for breakfast" territory.

 

I concur with Vialco and see Palpatine as a near omniscient being... and actually enjoy the saga much more with the delicious depth that this perspective adds to the entire tale. Not only can Palpatine foresee with near perfect accuracy everyone's actions ten moves ahead, he can also precisely see within each person with such transparency they he can manipulate there every weakness to his advantage and is then is also able to collectively weave them all together with such evil harmony.

 

This doesn't fit with what we see in the films, though. Palpatine doesn't know exactly what's going to happen. If he did, Amidala would never have been able to break the blockade and escape to Tatooine in Episode I. He was obsessed with getting Amidala to sign the treaty, and yet he couldn't make it happen. If he was a near omniscient being, you'd think he'd at least be able to foresee Amidala's fortitude in resistance.

It's clear that people with strong wills and idiosyncratic personalities can throw Palpatine off, even if only slightly. Obi-Wan is one such person, Dexter Jettster is another, and coming together they managed to figure out something which Palpatine didn't want figured out yet. Obviously all his plans ended up coming to fruition regardless all the way up to Episode VI, but that's because he's a master of the Plan B. And having to resort to Plan B means his Plan A failed, which he didn't foresee, or else Plan B would have been Plan A.

 

Yeah there is no way Palpatine plans very far ahead. In many ways his 'plans' don't even make sense and just seem to go with the flow:

TPM:
-First off, he wanted Nute Gunray to kill the Jedi in the opening scenes (they just wanted to negotiate and hadn't invaded Naboo yet...so there was no reason to kill them)
-He wanted the Queen to sign the treaty to make the invasion of Naboo legal (which would have ended the 'crisis')
-She escaped anyway without signing, in doing so, he had to send out his apprentice, who revealed himself to Qui-Gon (whoops there goes your 'secret sith' plans)
-When they get to Coruscant, Palpatine acts...pleased that the Queen is there and that the crisis is creating this opportunity to advance himself
(so why would he have wanted her to sign the treaty to end the crisis if his plan was to use this crisis to advance politically?)
-However, the Senate rejects the notion that there is a crisis at all.
-So he goads the Queen into the no-confidence vote of the chancellor...and I guess that just magically worked (if he needed her for this, why did he send Maul after her earlier?)
-Scenes later, we see that somehow this 'crisis' has created a sympathy vote for him to become chancellor (but.....they didn't even believe the crisis right? So how?)
-So at this point he's basically going to be chancellor, and acts surprised when the Queen wants to return to Naboo
-The Jedi are only worried that they found a Sith, and even though the Senate doesn't believe there is a real crisis on Naboo.....for some reason the Jedi seem to know Maul will be there for whatever reason (so I guess.....they DO believe there is a crisis...and somehow they know Maul will be there....how?)
-This makes the entire 'taking back Naboo' battle pointless, besides killing Maul (which I'm betting Palpatine didn't want...but whatever)
-But at the end of the film, Palpatine is happy, and acts like this battle helped him somehow. I don't really see how..

^With all this nonsensical crap, there is no way he would have known they would pick up little Anakin along the way and want to make him a Jedi

AOTC:
-(10 years earlier) Palpatine has Dooku (as Tyrannus) use Jango to create a clone army in secret
-Palpatine has Dooku use the Federation and other groups to create Separatist movement as well
-Dooku/Separatists tries to kill Amidala (and fails)
-Palpatine decides to us this....failed attempt to assign Obi and Anakin to her protection
-Another assassination attempt, by bugs this time, but Obi and Anakin chase the assassin 40 miles across the city (I guess where Jango happen to be hangin out)
-Jango shoots that dart.......that stupid dart that starts everything (you can't tell me palpatine knew they would chase this assassin all the way across town to get shot by this dart so they would find it)
-So at this point it is up to Anakin to take Padme off on a romantic protection adventure. Even though Palpatine (who controls Dooku) knows they are going to Naboo (probably), no one makes an attempt on her life there for whatever reason.
-Obi investigates the dart, which he learns from Dex it's from Kamino (Palpatine SURELY foresaw Obi-Wan talking to this guy in the diner......yeah...right)
-Dooku had erased Kamino from the archives, so it's obvious palpatine couldn't have wanted Obi-Wan to find it
-Obi finds it anyway
-Anakin does the whole ordeal with his mom and stuff....I highly doubt Palpatine could have planned/seen any of this too
-Obi discovers the clones, doesn't know who ordered them or seem to even know who that Jedi was
-Jango just.....happens to live here on Kamino, even though he's working w/ the Separatists. Why did he live there again? Updated DNA samples? Lame excuse.
-Obi tracks Jango to Geonosis, where he discovers a droid factory and just happens to oversee Dooku and his goons scheming (guess Palpatine knew he would overhear them...)
-Obi makes the call, and then gets captured
-Anakin and Padme go to save Obi-Wan
-So...they go to Geonosis then THEY get captured.
-My memory is fuzzy but sometime around here he coaxes Jar Jar into....um somehow single-handedly convincing the entire senate to give powers to the chancellor
-During their execution which is far too elaborate and showy....(in a big arena with creatures? stupid)....all the Jedi show up
-They fight for a while, but the Jedi are outnumbered and THEY get captured
-Yoda just happens to show up with the clones just in time to save them all and officially starts the war
-Blah blah dooku fight blah blah anakin loses hand blah blah Amidala still manages to escape death in battle
-Dooku runs away with the death star plans prior to knowing who actually might have even won the battle

^Okay by this point.....you're telling me all that convoluted stuff was planned by Palpatine who foresaw it ALL? Sorry don't buy it.

ROTS:
You know what? This is the only film where he had to be in control the whole time planning everything. It does make sense in this movie, but not the previous two. So it's not worth going into the details of ROTS, though I never understood the point of Grevious except just to give Obi a reason to trek off for a while (and take up screen time)

If some people REALLY believe that Sidious had the ability to foresee and enact ALL those things over those years and create such a domino effect (poison dart my ass!), I'm sorry, you just give him too much credit.

 

You have a source for this because I have one that says otherwise.

SIDIOUS: "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen."

It doesn't matter if Padme is killed or not. What matters is that Palpatine needs the Jedi to find the Clone Army and learn of the Droid Army, so that he can gain Emergency Powers and thus doesn't need the Senate's approval to start the war. That doesn't mean that he saw every minute detail, but he planned things out in advance to go the way he wanted them to go. If Palpatine really wanted her dead, he would have killed her himself.

 

I don't believe Palpatine is some kind of omnipresent being because things didn't always happen the way he planned. Like in ROTJ when he didn't forsee Luke coming with the rest of the to Endor, only after Vader told him did he tell him that Luke would seek him out in time. Why didn't he know that before? And he definitely didn't see Anakin throwing him down the reactor shaft on the Death Star.
I don't know if Palpatine tried to kill Padme or not, I think he realized how attached Anakin was to her, and that she could be a means to an end in him turning to the Dark Side. Other than that, I don't think he cared whether she lived or died.

 

Three reasons:

1. To please Nute Gunray. A very important and essential being to CIS. Since Gunray has wealth and power.

2. To put tempation on Anakin's path. Palpatine had been Anakin's mentor for over 10 years. He surely knew how Anakin felt about her. Now me personally I don't think Palpatine ever thought Padme might return Anakin's feelings. Or that they would take it as far as marriage, but again that's just what I think.

3. To get rid of her vote in the debate on whether to create an army or not. Padme did not want an army to be made. And Palpatine obviously needed one for his plans. So she had to go away for awhile.