PT Why did Palpatine try to kill Padme

It doesn't matter how the Jedi find out about it. They can find out about it when the Kaminoans contact the Republic.

Sidious had the ability to see deep into the future, but there was always the unexpected. With the power of the dark side, however, came flexibility. - Labyrinth of Evil

 

Actually it does matter how they find out. It had to happen in a way that would not allow for investigation. It had to happen in a way that forced the Republic to take control of the army without much debate, if any at all. Which was the whole purpose of of Palpatine getting emergency powers. If the cloners had just called the Jedi one day and said their army is ready, well then there would be a lot of investigation going on. With the way things transpired in AOTC, with Obi Wan finding the army, then right away being led right to the Droid Army, it solidified the need for the republic to give Palpatine the power to take hold of the Army. No debate, and no discussion.

Also you could come up with all the other what if or could have been scenarios you want, at the end of the day the scenario that played out in the movie is the one that Palpatine orchestrated.


Once again, if you could show me any part of Palpatine's plan in AOTC that didn't work where he needed to be flexible (any part that doesn't rely on a what if scenario), then please show me.

 

Either way allows for investigation. You seem to assume there was no investigation the way things played out in the films, but there is a three-year gap not shown on screen.

So what? What is there to investigate? In this scenario how do the Jedi find out any more than they did in AOTC?

 

LMAO, I am talking about investigation before they take control of the Army. If the cloners call up one day and say the Army is ready, well then there is a lot of questions to ask, and time to ask, debate, discuss in the Senate. In teh scenario that played out in AOTC there is no time to investigate, discuss, and debate. They need that army and they need it now! That is why they were called emergency powers! It was an emergency, lol! They are at war, the reasons of where the army came from are completely secondary at that point. Where as if the Army is brought to their attention before the war actually starts, well there is time to ask questions. Sure there is time after the fact to investigate, but after the fact a lot of their leads are dead, ie. Dyas and Fett.

I know I know, what if this and what if that... What if a huge asteroid hit geonosis and they didn't need the army after all. I know what if Palpatine had a massive heart attack and dropped dead on the spot. The what if scenario is just irrelevant because Lucas wrote it a specific way, and once again he says why he wrote it a specific way:

 

And we all know that investigations can only happen before someone takes control of an army. But again, so what if an investigation happens?

What kind of questions? What difference does it make?

They were already discussing a Military Creation Act by the beginning of the film, for some reason.

Discovering the fact that Separatists are amassing droid forces doesn't really count as being "at war", does it?

Just like in the film, in other words?

Those all-important questions again. What are these magical questions, and how do they have the power to ruin everything?

Sifo-Dyas was dead ten years before AOTC, so you can forget that approach. As far as Fett is concerned, how do you think he would react if he were caught up in an investigation? It's too bad a scene like that never happened in the film or else we might have some idea what would have gone on there!

 

At this point you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Most of the things you brought up in your last post are easily explained so I just once again leave you with this.

 

Palpating knew Anakin's love for Padme was strong. By having her killed, it would have been easier for Anakin to become evil. His feelings and emotions for her loss would have pushed him over the edge and into the dark side. Padme was basically a wedge between Palpatine and Anakin. She was kind of like a buffer for Anakin emotionally to a certain extent.

 

I'm sure he knows who he was.

No, but it gives the Jedi a reason to argue against using the army and the Loyalist Committee would fight against it.

They were discussing it because for the last year, Dooku has been gathering up support from many systems to seceded from the Republic and form their own government. The Military Creation Act was written to aide the Jedi Order against growing threats from the Separatists.

The war doesn't begin until the leaders of either faction opts to fire the first shot. Palpatine wants to fire the first shot, but in order to do so, he wants to gain Emergency Powers. Something the Military Creation Act will not allow, because the power will still belong to the Senate to veto their use. The Loyalists will refuse to sponsor it until it is too late. If they keep fighting him, Palpatine won't be able to start the war the way he wants it to.

 

I have to disagree. We saw the transmissions between Obi Wan and the Council, and no where is there is a description of Jango given to the council. All the description that is given is he was a Bounty Hunter. That is if memory serves me correct. After Obi Wan is captured, there is no dialogue between Obi Wan and any other member of the council, which includes Mace. Mace never interacts with anyone that would be able to tell him that Jango is the same BH that Obi Wan is tracking. After all, there is no telling sign that Jango is a BH to begin with. BH's in the Star Wars universe are different species, droids, dress different etc.

Now I can leave open the possibility Mace assumed he was the BH, but, strictly looking at it from what we see in the movie there is nothing suggesting that he would be able to make that assumption, before he killed Jango. Afterwards I am sure he knew who he was, as Obi Wan would have been able to tell him.

 

Then explain them. Unfortunately you can't, because your theory does not work.

Why? Wouldn't it look better if the first shot was fired by the enemy?

But how do we know the committee would be successful? More to the point, Dooku's army would eventually be used, eliminating any compelling reason to argue against using the clone army just as in the film.

 

I will let Lucas explain for me:

 

You obviously lack the ability to address the points I raised in my post. This is because the failure of your position has been exposed.

 

LOL, I will take your word for it...

You were offering nothing in the way as alternatives, you were simply taking my posts breaking them down into sentences and even to the point of partial sentences and basically asking why. Nothing more to discuss past that as you weren't discussing. All the questions you asked are easily answered by anyone that watched the movies. You're lists of "why" questions was getting shorter and shorter, and each time ignoring the fact that Lucas himself has said it was all Palpatines plan right from the point he suggested putting Obi Wan with Padme.

 

He saw Jango standing next to Nute and Dooku. He saw that he was armed to the teeth. That's why he put his blade against his neck. Not to mention he's the odd duck out. He recognizes Dooku and everyone that was part of the various corporate conglomerates that Obi-wan referred to. Jango and Boba are the only other humans in the private box.

Palpatine wants to make himself look like a strong leader who will take the initiative when it comes to threats to the safety of the Republic and future Empire. The Death Star will be the sum total of what his rule will be about. By striking first, he makes himself look better and better all the time which in turn results in his gaining more and leverage in the Senate.

The Committee has already gained enough leverage to deadlock the issue. That's part of the reason that Padme was coming back to Naboo in the first place. She wanted to negotiate peacefully and was gaining more and more support. Likewise when Obi-wan's warning is brought to light, Bail says that the debate is not over because the Senate will continue to delay a vote and debate on the issue. Even showing his message wouldn't light many fires under people's asses. Which was precisely why Palpatine and Mas Amedda brought up the Emergency Powers Act. Palpatine has effectively made the Senate incompetent.

 

Since you don't seem to be able to answer them, I guess that means you didn't watch the movies.

Not really.

Yet Bail's protestations didn't make any difference. That's the point. Palpatine gets his emergency powers in either scenario, as soon as the droid army is revealed in some way.

 

Actually, it does. The minute he gains Emergency Powers, he receives a standing ovation. They're eager to let him make the decision.

Except it is important that the discovery of both armies happens the way that it does, so that he can launch the first strike. It is his leverage for conducting the war and becoming Emperor.

 

It stands to reason that he would not lose popular sympathy if the Separatists "launched the first strike". This would only increase his support. The discovery of the armies does not have to happen exactly the way it did in the film.

 

Problem is if Dooku reveals he has an overwhelming army the Senate may agree to whatever he demands. which is how he sells the army to his allies in the first place. So its entirely possible under those circumstances that the Senate give in and give the Confederacy what they want. An army that is about to strike, and could strike anywhere, thats much more frightening for the Senate

 

As I said, it was an assumption at the absolute best. Being armed to the teeth doesn't make one a Bounty Hunter, otherwise Zam wouldn't have been a BH, as well as Zuckuss, IG-88, etc. Furthermore Mace had no clue at that point who Boba was. Again, Obi Wan never reported to the Council about Boba in anyway. Obi Wan also never reported to anyone what species Jango was (at least if memory serves me correctly). The only room I think you have is, as you say Jango was in the private box. That would lead to Mace having to make a pretty broad assumption on who Jango was because he could have just as easily been a private body guard for someone in the private box, and had nothing to do with being a Bounty Hunter.

As I said at best Mace could only assume that he was the BH. I think however he didn't make that assumption, because he did kill Jango. If Mace had made the assumption, then he knew Yoda wanted Jango for questioning as Mace was sitting right there when Yoda told Obi Wan to bring him in. So it just leads me to believe that Mace didn't know it was Jango. If Mace had known, I would imagine Mace would have taken Jango's hands off, to disarm him rather than take his head off... Just my opinion though...

 

They're not there, but Jango was.

Jango was only wanted for questioning about the assassination. They found it. That was all there was to know.

 

Really? Obviously my point had nothing to do with whether they were there or not, and had everything to do with your incorrect assumption that just because he was armed to the teeth he had to be a BH. I was pointing out that there are plenty of other BH's in the Star Wars galaxy that are not armed to the teeth, so that makes your point that Mace would have viewed him as a BH because he was armed to the teeth, incorrect.

No, he wasn't only wanted for questioning about the assassination, that was only part of it. Yoda wanted him for questioning once Obi Wan made it known to Yoda and Mace that there was Clone Army ordered in the name of the Republic and Jango was the template. So clearly Yoda wanted him questioned about what he (Jango) knew about the Clone Army as well. Not just about the assassination attempts.

Again, very poor decision by Mace if he assumed the guy he beheaded was the same guy they were looking to question on how the Clone Army came to be. Or simply he didn't assume and because he had very few details, and no communication with Obi Wan past the initial communications from Kamino and Geonosis, Mace had no clue who that guy was in the arena when he beheaded him.