Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by CaptainSuchandSuch, Mar 14, 2017.
The council refused to allow him to be trained. Allowing him to tag along, hoping he picked something up, was Qui-Gon's next best move.
There was literally nowhere else he could stay
the council wouldn't have looked after him, and the rates at staying in a classy five star hotel on Coruscant are high, even in off peak season.
besides Qui-Gon said "I want you to watch me, be mindful" that means in a nutshell "you're coming with me, war zones and all"
Yeah, and besides he couldn't just stay at the Naboo embassy on Coruscant.
That always struck me as odd. Was there literally nowhere else to put Anakin other than a war zone? Did they not have daycares, homeless shelters, or orphan homes on Coruscant they could put him in? If Qui-Gon thought Anakin was the Chosen One, why risk him getting shot at by a battle droid? It's not like Qui-Gon would have to pay the owners a stupidly large amount, or make them think Anakin was staying there forever. He could've just said, "Hey, where we're going is too dangerous for the boy. Look after him for a while, OK? We'll pick him up once we're done."
I mean, sure, they'd have to give Anakin proper clothes than the rags he was wearing, give him food and a bed, but that's kind of par the course when running the aforesaid daycare/homeless shelter/orphan home.
The droid control ship wasn't going to blow itself up, now would it?
But seriously, didn't the movie made it clear enough? Naboo was where Qui-Gon's mission was and Anakin was under his care.
Which is a perfectly fine explanation - although for the council it would have been more plausible to let Anakin stay to check him out.
... and get his mother if the fear of loosing her is such an obstacle ... :"p
Where else would he go? The Council's not going to protect him.
Why not? I mean the news that "OMG it's THE CHOSEN ONE!" would probably make an impact on a real Council waiting for a prophecy other than .... "Meh, doesn't matter - who cares - go away and take him with you" ... :"D
If the council had still refused to train him after Qui Gon's death, would they have sent him back to Tatooine? I remember a fanfic I read once where that was exactly what they intended to do. So Padme puts her foot down and declares him a ward of the state of Naboo.
They had already checked him out. It's in the movie.
The fear of loss should be discarded and trained against. Not being fed.
"I'll watch out for him. You have my word."
Qui-Gon was the follow-your-instincts-no-matter-what kind of guy. His instincts likely told him to bring Anakin along.
a: Okay, I guess I have to watch it again - all I remember was the council asking Anakin some questions, but not some intense testing, did they?
b: I completely agree - but it nonetheless doesn't make sense to let his mother behind if that could be a foreseeable problem in the future - I mean they KNEW exactly that the guy was afraid of loosing her ...
Qui-gon had seen little Ani brave the dangerous world of pod racing and become the first human to win. Despite his age I don't think he viewed him as a vulnerable child, but rather as a padawan. He was already in training mode with Anakin regardless of what the council said.
Describe "intense testing". Qui-Gon requested the Council to test Anakin. They did. You only saw parts of their tests.
That's why they don't allow him to be trained. If Anakin wants to become a Jedi, he needs to leave everyone he's attached to behind, whoever and wherever they are.
Quite honestly, you think that even younger padawans have no problems of leaving their mom and dad behind or to be afraid of losing them? That doesn't feel realistic to me...
They're taken as infants - 4 years old or younger is the norm.
1st of all, from the movie, it should be clear that while the council "approves" who is to be trained, the Jedi aren't as dogmatic in their ways as a lot of people believe they are or want to believe they are. Qui Gonn, even after hearing that the Council was refusing to give their blessing on Anakin's training decides on his own that he will take Anakin as his Padawan anyway:
Qui-Gon: He is to be trained then?
Mace: No, he will not be trained.
Mace: He is too old.
Qui-Gon: He is the chosen one. You must see it.
Yoda: Mmm... Clouded this boy's future is.
Qui-Gon: I will train him, then. I take Anakin as my Padawan learner.
Yoda: An apprentice you have Qui-Gon. Impossible to take on a second.
Mace: The code forbids it.
Qui-Gon: Obi-Wan is ready.
Obi-Wan: I am ready to face the trials
Yoda: Our own counsel we will keep on who is ready.
Qui-Gon: He is headstrong, and he has much to learn of the living Force, but he is capable. There is little more he can learn from me.
Yoda: Young Skywalkers fate will be decided later.
Mace: Now is not the time for this...
So as we can see from the responses to Qui-Gon declaring his intentions to take on Anakin as his Padawan, even without the Councils approval shows that the Councils approval is not necessarily needed in order for a Jedi to take on a Padawan. Yoda and Mace don't tell Qui-Gon that it's impossible for Qui-Gon to take Anakin as a Padawan because the code says they (the council) get to decide who gets trained, they say it's because Qui-Gon already has a Padawan, and the code forbids that he has two. It's a very small detail that most people miss, or in some cases purposely ignore so they can continue to have a problem with the Jedi and how they work.
Qui-Gon planned on taking Anakin as a Padawan no matter what the Council decided once Obi Wan passed his trial. His taking Anakin to Naboo was the first step in that training, as Qui-Gon was trying to find a way to circumvent the code. Anakin would gain valuable experience with what he sees happening Naboo.
Furthermore, it should be easily remembered that Anakin wasn't some normal 10 year old kid. He was already showing high amounts of Force ability with his podracing skills. Something that was highly dangerous in and of itself.
If Anakin was to become a Jedi anyway, he would have been thrust into these situations pretty quickly as he was starting his training at an older age.
Why did this happen?
I've talked about it before so short answer, Plot Demands It or Contrived Writing.
Did Qui-Gon have alternatives?
The place where Padme stayed on Coruscant, the Naboo Embassy?
Just tell one of her hand-maidens to stay and look after Anakin.
This wasn't supposed to be a long mission, a couple of days and Anakin can manage that.
Failing that, the Gungan hideout on Naboo.
That would also have worked fine.
Practically anywhere else would be safer than taking a nine year old kid into a war zone.
And if Qui-Gon had said that Anakin was there to learn or to aid in the battle or something, then it would still be kind of dumb but at least have some sort of reason.
But no, all Qui-Gon wants is for Anakin to find a safe place to hide.
Really Qui-Gon? Back on Courscant is much safer than in a war zone if you want him to stay safe.
And that no one else even questions this makes this seem even more contrived.
Padme questioned Qui-Gon before but dragging little Anakin along, whom she kind of likes, that is no concern of hers.
Obi-Wan also doesn't offer any objection over this.
And the council orders Qui-Gon to go with Padme back to Naboo, to catch Maul.
They know that he wants to train Anakin, who is a little kid. So why not assign this mission to someone else, that didn't have a little kid to deal with? The council doesn't have total faith in Qui-Gon so send someone else. They did seem to have people to spare.
And for Qui-Gon to have to worry about Anakin's safety when he is in a battle and is looking to capture a Sith Lord, what is the benefit to that?
Also, as far as Qui-Gon knew at the time, the blockade is still there. A blockade that they only barely got through last time so odds are that they would get blown to bits as soon as they approach Naboo.
Killing the only hope for the salvation of the galaxy isn't very smart.
Plus getting little Anakin killed would not be very kind to Shmi, whom Qui-Gon seemed to like and care about.
Just imagine Qui-Gon coming back to Tatooine with Anakin's dead body and giving it to Shmi and saying "Yeah, I took him into a war zone and he got shot and died, sorry."
Lastly, about Anakin being in Qui-Gons care and so he has to take him with him.
That is like arguing that soldiers that are also single parents have to their kids along when they are ordered to another country to war or peace keeping operations. Their kids are their responsibility so they must come along right? And not just to that country, the kids should go into battle with their parents.
This was one of a number of contrived events in the third act of TPM that didn't work for me.
Bye for now.
He took personal responsibility for a boy he believed to be the Chosen One. Anakin already survived slavery and the Pod Race. The boy was not some random helpless kid. Also Star Wars is a fairy tale, the kind of story where a young squire accompanies his master into the vicinity of battle where eventually he's called on to do more than simply observe from a safe space. I suppose a more dedicated adherence to "realism" would've had Anakin staying behind with the normal younglings for a few days until Qui-Gon returned. But again, Star Wars. I accept Anakin on Naboo for the same reason I accept Luke being given the Ace Pilot opening on his first official day with the Rebellion rather than starting out with some manual labor position.
He wouldn't take him if he knew he couldn't protect him. And he did. Leaving him elsewhere was not a solution since it was his responsibility, not someone else's.
Qui-gon didn't know he was going into a war zone when he took Anakin to Naboo. Once there and he learned of the plan, he came up with a way to protect the boy.
On any basic level that is always the answer since it's a fiction.
That is hardly going to be instructive outside of that parameter.
The question is why did Qui-Gon take him and the answer is as usual right in the movie itself.
Something else just occurred to me as I was pondering the dialogue and looking up the script. At the time Qui-Gon left Coruscant, it seems no one was aware that they were headed into battle, as indicated by comments from Palpatine, Windu, Panaka, and Qui-Gon.
AMIDALA : Senator, this is your arena. I feel I must return to mine. I have
decided to go back to Naboo. My place is with my people.
PALPATINE : Go back!! But, Your Majesty, be realistic! You would be in
danger. They will force you to sign the treaty.
AMIDALA : I will sign no treaty, Senator. My fate will be no different from
that of our people.
MACE WINDU : Now is not the time for this...the Senate is voting for a new
Supreme Chancellor. Queen Amidala is returning home, which will put pressure
on the Federation, and could widen the confrontation.
CAPT. PANAKA : The moment we land the Federation will arrest you, and force
you to sign the treaty.
QUI-GON : I agree...I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by this.
AMIDALA : I'm going to take back what's ours.
The Queen didn't reveal her intentions to take back the planet until during the trip there.
Then I thought, why did the Queen let Anakin come along knowing she was planning battle? Fortunately, it seems that a cut scene from the script acknowledged this. Padme didn't know Anakin was with them until they were entering Naboo's atmosphere.
ANAKIN : Hi! Where have you been?
PADME : Annie! What are you doing here?
ANAKIN : I'm with Qui-Gon...but...they're not going to let me be a Jedi.
I'm too old.
PADME : This is going to be dangerous, Annie.
I just now noticed that you already pointed out what I posted above.