PT Why did the Council allow Obi-Wan to train Anakin?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by only one kenobi, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    The question is in the title, but let me clarify and also expose my reasons for asking.

    I know that the Council decided, after all, to allow Anakin to be trained - the reasoning for which is not explained, but which we can all conjecture upon; he's become too visible to be left out of the Jedi having such a high Force sensitivity; the confirmation of the survival of the Sith (also a factor in the previous reason) endorses Qui-Gon's opinion of Anakin as the Chosen One etc. But, given that they know how.."dangerous" the boy's training would be why would they leave that training in the hands of a newly knighted Obi-Wan?

    Would someone who's fears and attachments they so clearly sensed not have been better being trained by a more mature Jedi, such as Yoda or Windu? Especially taking into account Qui-Gon's words to the Council "He still has much to learn of the living Force......". This is a young Jedi who is still learning. I know there is the argument that Jedi are always learning (or should be) but that doesn't cover the fact that Obi-Wan has only just become a Knight. Its not as if there was some teacher-padawan bond there to be broken, except for maybe his association with Qui-Gon. So, why did the Jedi allow the young and "dangerous" Anakin to be trained by Obi-Wan?
  2. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    It's a very good question. From their perspective, if they had those concerns they should have had him trained by someone with more experience. I think Yoda retained more of that concern about the assignment (and about Anakin being trained in general) than the Council did as a whole though, and it seems like part of it was that they were letting Obi-Wan keep his promise to Qui-Gon that he would train Anakin.

    Ultimately, though, my opinion is that it wouldn't have made a difference. I think Obi-Wan blamed himself for too much of Anakin's fall, and I think Anakin would still have turned to the dark side (maybe in a different way or at a different time) with a more experienced master, or even if Qui-Gon had never died.
    Eryndil likes this.
  3. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    The council allowed him to train Anakin because everyone on the council but Yoda agreed on it and Obi Wan was going to anyways, with or without their approval.
  4. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I think Obi-Wan sort of forced their hand a bit, he was going to train Anakin with or without their consent, I think that played a part in changing their minds. That, and Anakin's role in the Battle of Naboo got them a little greedy over the possibility of The Chosen One.
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  5. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    This, and the fact that Obi-Wan and the council were amazed of Anakin's ability to destroy the Droid Control ship all on his own. I'm sure this is what finally convinced them, and made them believe, that he had to be the chosen one. For some reason, people fail to acknowledge that, too.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Jan 30, 2013
  6. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    That and also the undeniable fact that the Sith were back(though they were gone to begin with).
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  7. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    Because there wouldn't have been 5 more episodes..
  8. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    Well, if they chose not to train him, then where could Anakin go? Where would he live? He's 9 years old, his slave mom is at the ass-end of space. Perhaps the Jedi would have asked for a transport back to Tatooine. But regardless it would have been an awkward situation.

    Anakin: Hey mom, I'm back!
    Shmi: What happened? Weren't you supposed to become a Jedi?
    Anakin: Yes, but they said something about my future being clouded and sent me home.
    Shmi: What a bunch of $%&#. Now go back to your room and wait. Watto wanted me to carry some back-breaking containers to the spaceport. But now that you're back...
    Anakin: Yepee!
  9. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    He could have become a professional pod racer, and then bought his mother's freedom. Or the Padme could have paid for her freedom after accessing her accounts and then they could do whatever they wanted.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Jan 31, 2013
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I recall him thinking just that, in Labyrinth of Evil.

    Although it's more in the context of "what would have happened if Qui-Gon hadn't bought him free".
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jan 31, 2013
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  11. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    I guess the point is, if they had decided that Anakin should be trained, why didn't they assign him to a more experienced master? I think that is what the OP is asking. Would Obi-Wan have insisted on being the one to train Anakin if the Council suggested someone else as his master? I'm sure that he would recognise his own lack of experience in that regard, but would his promise to Qui-Gon override that?
  12. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    The question had been answered several times already.

    Knights get experience by training padawans. That is the one of the ways to become a Master. Obi Wan was well trained by one of the best Jedi in the order.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Jan 31, 2013
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yoda does actually raise that issue in the novel afterward:

    Mace: "Qui-Gon was right. He is ready."
    Yoda: "Ready this time he was. Ready to train the boy, he may not be."
    Mace: "Defeating a Sith Lord in combat is a strong test of his readiness for anything. There is no doubt. The one who tested him was a Sith."
    Yoda: "Always two there are. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice."
    Mace: "Then which one was destroyed, do you thing- the master or the apprentice?"
  14. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    Considering that no one lifted a finger to help Anakin's mom for 10 years, I doubt that Padme would have helped if Anakin was rejected by the Jedi Order.
    Heck in 10 years Anakin himself did nothing to free his mom...
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Obi-Wan tells him "You will see her again. But when you do, you will be a Jedi Knight."- implication- padawans can't see their families till they graduate.

    In Tatooine Ghost + The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi, we find out that the reason Cliegg Lars was able to buy Shmi free at all, was that Qui-Gon had sent her a very valuable starship part to bargain with. She gave it to him, he bought her off Watto.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  16. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Believe me, I'm not excusing anyone for leaving Shmi in slavery - but she was freed. Does anyone know roughly when?
  17. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Kinda hard for Anakin to do so when he is training and Jedi don't give out that kind of cash to padawans. I also think Padme would have helped if he asked.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Jan 31, 2013
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Going by Tatooine Ghost, it was five years after TPM. The AoTC novel also fits, with her having met him "five years ago" just before the events of the movie start.
  19. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Ah right, so it was Obi-Wan's defeat of Maul that convinced the Council (except Yoda) that he was the right choice to train Anakin. It seems an odd leap of logic but it probably makes sense from a Jedi point of view. It's good that the novel explains what was left ambiguous in the movie. :)
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I see the novels as the "Extended cut" in most cases.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  21. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    They do tend to add some useful and/or interesting context to the movies. The only difficulty is where parts of them seem to contradict on-screen events. Where there is no contradiction (as in this case), I guess they count as canon.
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  22. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    I think we will never know the answer on whether or not Anakin would have given in to his negative side if he had been trained by a more experienced Jedi Knight or Master . . . including Qui-Gon. Unless Lucas decides to give us an answer.
  23. Lady_Misty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2007
    star 4
    We see in the Clone Wars that Luminara was stern in her interactions with Barriss. Luminara was strict and Barriss and she expected to be obeyed without question.

    We observed that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had a good teacher and student relationship where Qui-Gon as gentle with Obi-Wan and not domineering like Luminara. The only time that Qui-Gon was firm with Obi-Wan was when Obi-Wan was saying that Anakin was dangerous and then it wasn't nasty.

    Anakin might not have done well under someone else since we don't know what was a normal Master/Padawan relationship
  24. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    There were other moments when Qui-Gon was firm or critical of Obi-Wan. But he was never consistently critical in the same way Obi-Wan was toward Anakin.
    minnishe likes this.
  25. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    cuz dey iz stoopids. <------(how the Jedi in the PT spell)
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