Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by only one kenobi, Jan 30, 2013.
Probably because Padawan Kenobi wasn't consistently behaving like a jackass.
I thought Qui-Gon was firm (not mean, not critical) but firm with Obi-Wan in almost every interaction with him and he corrected his padawan more than once. He did get a bit miffed at Obi-Wan in the landing platform scene, though (hey, he's human, it'll happen - but I don't think he liked to be questioned by his padawan regardless of the subject matter).
Anakin for some reason (fragile ego?) wanted sunshine blown up his ass all the time, which Palpatine was happy to provide, but that wasn't exactly realistic for a Jedi Master.
And in the few scenes in which he was with Obi-Wan in AOTC, Anakin was behaving like a jackass. The exception might be the speeder chase scene but the only criticism there was "Don't lose your lightsaber." That was needed.
Honestly I'm rougher on my own kids than I ever saw Obi-Wan being to Anakin. I'd say the scene in Padme's apartment was a misunderstanding that resulted in a very uncomfortable scene for everyone involved but not a case of Obi-Wan being "overly critical."
If Obi-Wan was "overly critical" in that scene, than Anakin was "overly hormonal and under-attentive to his master" at the same time.
It was neither character's best moment.
Anakin was trying to impress Padme with his assertiveness, typical for a teenager. I think Obi-Wan made the right move.
Qui-Gon only praises Obi-Wan once, when the younger Jedi apologises for daring to question his Master's authority, a deed for which he gives him the cold shoulder (so, though he can be disrespectful of the Council, he will suffer no such insolence from his own padawan - do as I say, not as I do) every other word seems to be a swipe at the boy. Even when he tells the Council Obi-Wan is ready for the trials he couches that with "he still has much to learn about the living Force".
The whole idea of Qui-Gon as somehow a more patient and caring teacher than Obi-Wan comes from Liam Neeson's input into the character , and partly partly from his warmth toward Anakin.
Remember that he is originally as dismissive of Jar-Jar as Obi-Wan is "Are you brainless?" and "That won't be necessary" - and later, in Schmi's house, he catches Jar-Jar's tongue and admonishes him, embarasses him, for what is simply his way. Is that really the way a Jedi should act? Is that compassionate and understanding?
I agree that this idea of Qui-Gon's warmth stems largely from his interactions with Anakin and Shmi - he really has very little interaction of consequence with Obi-Wan. This makes it a bit hard to "analyze" the quality when the quantity is so divergent and the circumstances are so different (civilian, child/civilian, adult/student,adult).
But I've said all along, as you did, that his interactions with Jar Jar and "Padme" tend from "less warm" to "cringe-worthy" in the context of this so-called "ideal" man/Jedi he's made out to be. He's not a bad man, not at all, he's very human but I don't understand this "give Qui-Gon a pass" when other characters are not given the same.
That is a matter of opinion.
Although he is my favorite SW character, I have always found Qui-Gon rather manipulative and a bit too stubborn for his own good. I've noticed that Padme seemed to view Qui-Gon as manipulative.
She was just ticked after realizing Qui Gon knew who she was.
I like Qui-Gon, but he could definitely be manipulative and stubborn. Not to mention impulsive and short-sighted. How the hell could he not see that the Jedi Council would not just bow down and say, "Oh cool, you found the Chosen One, we'll set up his penthouse suite in the Jedi Temple right away"? Or what kind of effects the potential rejection might have on a nine-year-old kid who had just been separated from his mother?
Yup. I like his body language when the Jedi tell him "no".
The hands go straight on the hips in a display of aggression/dominance.
It harks back to one of the film's earliest images: Queen Amidala, clad in red, warning the TF to "beware".
Credit to TFN member StampidHD280pro for that observation. See his thread:
Pulled from the opening post dated Nov 18 2010 4:13 PM:
I think also of Obi-Wan's imperious stance on Mustafar when he emerges from Padme's ship.
It's basically the same stance. Gee, I wonder where he got that from?
For all of Qui-Gon's talk of the "living Force", he seemed to have a few blindspots of his own in that department.
Anakin's fate arose from a vast matrix of happenings: a microscopic network of subtle weaves (he'd been wondering: what *are* midi-chlorians?).
That's the genius and the beauty of this storyline, IMO.
Politics, the council saw Obi-wan as the respectable jedi. The line that he came from was Dooku-Qui-gon then Obi-wan not the most sterling reputation for jedi at that time. I believe Dooku had left the order by the events in the first movie and Qui-gon never looked eye to eye with yoda and the council. It seemed as if a difference in the belief in the force became personal. The funny thing is at the end of ROTS yoda admits Qui-gon was right. hubris of the jedi led to their destruction
In reality (IMHO), you can't blame the Jedi for their demise, only for contributing to their demise - the greater blame goes to the Sith.
Qui-Gon is my favorite character, but I do believe that two of his flaws were his tendency to be manipulative and stubborn.
It may simply have been that Yoda had the casting vote in both instances when a decision on Anakin was required (on Coruscant and after the battle of Naboo). On speaking to Obi-Wan he quickly realises they don't have a lot of options. They can either refuse Obi-Wan's request and see him train Anakin as a free agent (something he states he is willing to do), or they can allow him to train Anakin and at least gain some sense of control over the situation. They arguably picked the lesser of the two evils.
The real answer:
Always the answer.
Well the Sith are back and the surviving Sith is going to be looking for a replacement and here is this powerful Force Sensitive that they hadn't wanted too long ago because of his age but could become a danger to them if the Sith find him. So the Council must have decided that Anakin needed to be kept close at hand. Obi-Wan is saying that he will train him even if it means leaving the Order whichh coul dput both of the in harm's way. As far as we know there were very few Knights and Masters that were able to take a Padawan and fewer that would have taken him. The Council Members don't train theem and it is implied that if you have a Padawan and are placed on the Council the Padawan is reassigned. Obi-Wan was the first volunteer for the job so they, not counting Yoda, thought it was for the best.
Obi-Wan seemed to continually complain about not getting to train Anakin, so Yoda probably let him train the kid just to shut him up.
Regardless of the Council's decision, Obi-Wan would have trained Anakin out of his promise to Qui-Gon. In light of recent events with the reemergence of the Sith, it was the better decision to accept Anakin and at least with a newly-qualified Knight, they could at least have some control over Anakin's training.
This is what my answer would be.
Though the council didn't want to accept Anakin into their numbers under Kenobi's authority, it would have been a smart decision to add another Jedi seeing as the threat of the Sith was being revealed to them.
^ ^ ^ I third that. I speculate that Yoda knew that Anakin would carry out Qui-Gon's dying wish regardless, so decided to keep the boy at least close to the fold.