PT Why did the council retract their decision and approve Anakin's training?

Lucas is credited as having written the novelization for A New Hope, which is where the bootlicker part comes from. I know he had a ghost writer but the fact that he's credited as the author means he was pretty involved. As for Obi-Wan being Owen's brother, I doubt they could have written that into the ROTJ novelization without Lucas's go ahead, as it's a pretty major piece of info regarding Ben's past. I agree that it's possible to train a Jedi out of that way of thinking, but chances are it won't work. Like Chris Rock said, it's also possible to drive a car with just your feet on the steering wheel. Doesn't mean it's likely to work. With Luke, they had no choice but to drive the car with their feet as their arms were cut off (metaphorically) and someone had to drive the car. As for Jedi existing before the rule came into place, do we know that the rule didn't come into place during the formation of the Jedi Order?

They are their families. They are all one big surrogate family, like a monastery or a convent. There's no reason to think only those raised by normal families know more about love than those raised by special kinds of families. If they are raised with love, they will know love.

What do you mean?

Sure, but not just his experiences. He didn't have any experience with institutions while he was trained, so he's going to have to look elsewhere for wisdom on that.

I'm not referring to the race, I'm referring to his record number of midichlorians. Record being the key word, and that record's implications.

What don't you think I'm paying attention to? Haven't I addressed every relevant point you've made? The reason I said it seems like sometimes all you want to do is disagree is because sometimes you ignore the relevant parts of my points and respond as if I said something different than what I actually said. I said "...it's not normal, but neither is reading a midichlorian count of over 20,000" and you responded with "Jedi read midichlorian counts all the time" as if I didn't even mention the 20,000, which happened to be the operative part of that statement. So either you just like to disagree or maybe you're not paying attention. As for just plain not getting it, if that's true, it doesn't mean I'm disagreeing just to disagree. In fact it's the opposite, it means I'm disagreeing because I don't get it.

Why do you keep bringing up pod races, when I'm talking about him having the highest record midichlorian count? That's a completely separate thing.

What does faith have to do with believing the world is round? Observations, yes, but I don't see how faith fits in. The Columbus analogy only heightens my curiosity of what observations lead QG to his conclusion. And the council never actually said there is another explanation. Unless you're bringing up the novel again.

 

Matthew Stover has said that Lucas was involved, even line editing the book and telling him what to leave in and what to cut out. That's the opposite of Lucas giving notes and a copy of the shooting script to someone and say, "Go!".

Except the Jedi don't understand love in the context of how to differentiate it from what they think they know. This is why the write off the Sith as being not salvageable and Luke doesn't, because he loves his father in a way that the Jedi didn't feel towards the Sith. He can feel what the Jedi could not.

Compare Luke vs Vader and Obi-wan vs Anakin. Luke didn't lose faith in his father like Obi-wan did.

Or he'd make it up as he goes.

It doesn't mean anything than he has a high count. Just like Yoda's didn't mean anything other than that.

I've brought up something, only for you to turn around and forget that.

Because neither is enough for them.

Faith is what all one has to go with, when there isn't enough proof and there wasn't. He had an assumption that the Sith were back and that the boy was the Chosen One. He relied on faith that this was the only possible outcome and not that he was wrong. Columbus had no proof that the world was round, just certain observations that lead him to believe that it was and he had faith that he was right. And sometimes with faith, it can lead you correctly or mislead you. In the latter, it can blind you to other possibilities.

 

I will speak only by novelizations because, i think it there that we can have some explainaton. In TPM, the dialogue between Yoda and Obi-wan, just before Qui-Gon's funeral :
The door opened, and Yoda appeared. He entered the room in a slow shuffle, leaning on his walking stick, his wizened face sleepy-eyed and contemplative.
“Master Yoda,” Obi-Wan greeted, hurrying forward to meet him, bowing deferentially.
The Jedi Master nodded. “Confer on you the level of Jedi Knight, the Council does. Decided about the boy, the Council is, Obi-Wan,” he advised solemnly.
“He is to be trained?”
The big ears cocked forward, and the lids to those sleepy eyes widened. “So impatient, you are. So sure of what has been decided?”
Obi-Wan bit his tongue and kept his silence, waiting dutifully on the other. Yoda studied him carefully. “A great warrior, was Qui-Gon Jinn,” he gargled softly, his strange voice sad. “But so much more he could have been, if not so fast he had run. More slowly, you must proceed, Obi-Wan.”
Obi-Wan stood his ground. “He understood what the rest of us did not about the boy.”
But Yoda shook his head. “Be not so quick to judge. Not everything, is understanding. Not all at once, is it revealed. Years, it takes, to become a Jedi Knight. Years more, to become one with the Force.”
He moved over to a place where the fading light shone in through a window, soft and golden. Sunset approached, the appointed time for their farewell to Qui-Gon.
Yoda’s gaze was distant when he spoke. “Decided, the Council is,” he repeated. “Trained, the boy shall be.”
Obi-Wan felt a surge of relief and joy flood through him, and a grateful smile escaped him.
Yoda saw the smile. “Pleased, you are? So certain this is right?” The wrinkled face tightened. “Clouded, this boy’s future remains, Obi-Wan. A mistake to train him, it is.”
“But the Council—”
“Yes, decided.” The sleepy eyes lifted. “Disagree with that decision, I must.”
There was a long silence as the two faced each other, listening to the sounds of the funeral preparations taking place without. Obi-Wan did not know what to say. Clearly the Council had decided against the advice of Yoda. That in itself was unusual. That the Jedi Master chose to make a point of it here emphasized the extent of his concerns about Anakin Skywalker.
Obi-Wan spoke carefully. “I will take this boy as my Padawan, Master. I will train him in the best way I can. But I will bear in mind what you have told me here. I will go carefully. I will heed your warnings. I will keep close watch over his progress.”
Yoda studied him a moment, then nodded. “Your promise, then, remember well, young Jedi,” he said softly. “Sufficient, it is, if you do.”
Obi-Wan bowed in acknowledgment. “I will remember.”
Together, they went out into a blaze of light.
The funeral pyre was lit, the fire building steadily around the body of Qui-Gon Jinn, the flames slowly beginning to envelop and consume him. Those who had been chosen to honor him encircled the pyre. Queen Amidala stood with her handmaidens, Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, Governor Sio Bibble, Captain Panaka, and an honor guard of one hundred Naboo soldiers. Boss Nass, Jar Jar Binks, and twenty Gungan warriors stood across from them. Linking them together were the members of the Jedi Council, including Yoda and Mace Windu. Another clutch of Jedi Knights, those who had known Qui-Gon longest and best, completed the circle.
Anakin Skywalker stood with Obi-Wan, his young face intense as he fought to hold back his tears.
A long, sustained drum roll traced the passage of the flames as they reduced Qui-Gon to spirit and ash. When the fire had taken him away, a flight of snowy doves was released into a crimson sunset. The birds rose in a flutter of wings and a splash of pale brilliance, winging swiftly away.
Obi-Wan found himself remembering. For his entire life, he had studied under the Jedi, and Qui-Gon Jinn, in particular. Now Qui-Gon was gone, and Obi-Wan had passed out of an old life and into a new. Now he was a Jedi Knight, not a Padawan. Everything that had gone before was behind a door that had closed on him forever. It was hard to accept, and at the same time, it gave him an odd sense of release.
He looked down at Anakin. The boy was staring at the ashes of the funeral bier, crying softly.
He put his hand on one slim shoulder. “He is one with the Force, Anakin. You must let him go.”
The boy shook his head. “I miss him.”
Obi-Wan nodded. “I miss him, too. And I will remember him always. But he is gone.”
Anakin wiped the tears from his face. “What will happen to me now?”
The hand tightened on the boy’s shoulder. “I will train you, just as Qui-Gon would have done,” Obi-Wan Kenobi said softly. “I am your new Master, Anakin. You will study with me, and you will become a Jedi Knight, I promise you.”
The boy straightened, a barely perceptible act. Obi-Wan nodded to himself. Somewhere, he thought, Qui-Gon Jinn would be smiling.
Across the way, Mace Windu stood with Yoda, his strong dark face contemplative as he watched Obi-Wan put his hand on Anakin Skywalker’s shoulder.
“One life ends and a new one begins in the Jedi order,” he murmured, almost to himself.
Yoda hunched forward, leaning on his gnarled staff, and shook his head. “Not so sure of this one as of Qui-Gon, do I feel. Troubled, he is. Wrapped in shadows and difficult choices.”
Mace Windu nodded. He knew Yoda’s feelings on the matter, but the Council had made its decision. “Obi-Wan will do a good job with him,” he said, shifting the subject. “Qui-Gon was right. He is ready.”
They knew of what the young Padawan had done to save himself from the Sith Lord in the melting pit after Qui-Gon had been struck down. It took an act of extraordinary courage and strength of will. Only a Jedi Knight fully in tune with the Force could have saved himself against such an adversary. Obi-Wan Kenobi had proved himself beyond everyone’s expectations that day.
“Ready this time, he was,” Yoda acknowledged grudgingly. “Ready to train the boy, he may not be.”
“Defeating a Sith Lord in combat is a strong test of his readiness for anything,” the Council leader pressed. His eyes stayed with Obi-Wan and Anakin. “There is no doubt. The one who tested him was a Sith.”
Yoda’s sleepy eyes blinked. “Always two there are. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice.”
Mace Windu nodded. “Then which one was destroyed, do you think—the master or the apprentice?”
They looked at each other now, but neither could provide an answer to the question.

First, Yoda does not have the power to decide instead of the Jedi Council as the movie shows, especially not on a case as sensitive. Mace Windu himself cannot do so while he is "the Master of the Council". I believe that this is why Georges Lucas wanted to repair his error through the novel. Secondly, in the novel, the dialogue between Windu and Yoda is very revealing: clearly Yoda does not approve that Anakin is trained and especially not his mentor is Obi-wan while Windu appears to approve it. What were the reasons for this change? It was only well out in the novel RotS, that we will know : And while Palpatine answered, Mace Windu reached into the Force.
To Mace’s Force perception, the world crystallized around them, becoming a gem of reality shot through with flaws and fault lines of possibility. This was Mace’s particular gift: to see how people and situations fit together in the Force, to find the shear planes that can cause them to break in useful ways, and to intuit what sort of strike would best make the cut. Though he could not consistently determine the significance of the structures he perceived—the darkening cloud upon the Force that had risen with the rebirth of the Sith made that harder and harder with each passing day—the presence of shatterpoints was always clear.
Mace had supported the training of Anakin Skywalker, though it ran counter to millennia of Jedi tradition, because from the structure of fault lines in the Force around him, he had been able to intuit the truth of Qui-Gon Jinn’s guess: that the young slave boy from Tatooine was in fact the prophesied chosen one, born to bring balance to the Force. He had argued for the elevation of Obi-Wan Kenobi to Mastership, and to give the training of the chosen one into the hands of this new, untested Master, because his unique perception had shown him powerful lines of destiny that bound their lives together, for good or ill. On the day of Palpatine’s election to the Chancellorship, he had seen that Palpatine was himself a shatterpoint of unimaginable significance: a man upon whom might depend the fate of the Republic itself.
Now he saw the three men together, and the intricate lattice of fault lines and stress fractures that bound them each to the other was so staggeringly powerful that its structure was beyond calculation.
Anakin was somehow a pivot point, the fulcrum of a lever with Obi-Wan on one side, Palpatine on the other, and the galaxy in the balance, but the dark cloud on the Force prevented his perception from reaching into the future for so much as a hint of where this might lead. The balance was already so delicate that he could not guess the outcome of any given shift: the slightest tip in any direction would generate chaotic oscillation. Anything could happen.
Anything at all.
And the lattice of fault lines that bound all three of them to each other stank of the dark side.

Of course, each member of the Jedi Council have his reason to approve or decline the training of Anakin, but we know that the majority of it, led by Mace Windu, decided to give the boy his chance. And now we know Windu's personal reason.
Thank you for reading me.

 

The reason I got was to honor Qui Gon...pretty clever how GL made it so most of that episode aanakin was with Qui Gon. Obi wan was rarely in the Tatooine scenes. I still say that episode is purely about Padme and her issues with the Trade Federation. You know other things are going on, but...you have to wait.

 

That's a possible reason. I think the better reason was that they confirmed the Sith had returned, implying that Anakin was indeed the Chosen One. Now that they had the Chosen One in their fold, letting him go could lead him directly into the hands of the Sith. It was a preventive measure more than anything.

 

In light of the tumultuous events that unfolded around that time they decided to have a bob each way as far as Anakin was concerned.

 

Indeed. The Battle of Naboo proved that the Sith had returned to the galaxy and that Anakin Skywalker was very strong with the Force. If the Jedi didn't train him, there was a chance that the Sith would find him.

Considering that Palpatine says he will follow Anakin's career with great interest, there is no doubt that Darth Sidious would have snatched up the Chosen One even sooner, had the Jedi refused to train Anakin.

 

As always the basic answers are in the movies themselves you just have to pull them out.

As I've said over and over when some people criticize the prequels for not handing them all the answers on a silver platter they won't do the same for the OT. There not getting things is a virtue not a vice. The prequels are far more complex stories both in character and story as well of course. These same people want everything in Star Wars to be so simple it seems. They also want thing to be more character based and adult which is exactly what happened but when they got it they didn't want it.

First off the Council's approval isn't needed. A Jedi Knight can take an apprentice with or without approval and Obi-Wan was going to take Anakin either way which was his right once he was made a Jedi Knight. The way the Jedi work with paths of destiny would mean that only Obi-Wan was going to train Anakin as that was the path set before him through Qui-Gon who made it his last request.

 

And indeed, the official site's description of Qui-Gon gives me the exact answer I was looking for:

A venerable if maverick Jedi Master, Qui-Gon Jinn was a student of the living Force. Qui-Gon lived for the moment, espousing a philosophy of "feel, don't think -- use your instincts." On Tatooine, Qui-Gon discovered a young slave boy named Anakin Skywalker who was strong in the Force. Sensing the boy's potential, Qui-Gon liberated Anakin from slavery. The Jedi Master presented Anakin to the Jedi Council, but they deemed the boy too old to begin training and dangerously full of fear and anger. They refused to allow Qui-Gon to train Anakin, but rescinded their decision to fulfill Qui-Gon's dying wish.

I will always say till I'm blue in the face that there's no reason to think Obi-Wan's account of Anakin and Darth Maul is somehow better proof of the Sith Return/Anakin is the Chosen One, than Qui-Gon's account of both upon their entrance in the temple. The council simply changed their mind to honor Qui-Gon's dying wish. End of story.

 

Because they are arrogant and blind.

 

Actually, a case could be made that the "arrogance and blindness" was in their original insistence on not training him - their assumption that no-one above the age of 1 (TPM novel) can be trained.

 

I love how GL has sewn in so many parallels from such a broad spectrum of religious and spiritual belief systems into the actions of his characters. Just this week one such connection came to mind in a similar vein when during the course of Jesus' life he was rejected by the elders and chief priests of the Temple for similar reasons. The path of the "Chosen Ones" seems to be rarely predictable or a smooth one.

 

Yeah I feel this is the main reason too also they may have sensed that he was the chosen one.


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