CT Why did the Emperor call the Lightsaber a Jedi's Weapon?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Sitara, Dec 17, 2012.

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  1. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Eh, only in certain areas. Jedi combat after all is all about using the Force-you're anticipating your opponent's moves, finding advantage in terrain, protecting yourself from the environment, and looking for opportunities to attack all at once; sure, some Sith (Sidious without question) have an advantage in using the Force, but most Sith and Jedi seem pretty evenly matched to me. It's worth noting that Maul and Dooku out-duelled their opponents in TPM and AOTC; Maul barely used the Force in an attacking sense at all, and Dooku's Force attacks were relatively effective against Anakin, and not effective at all against Obi-Wan and Yoda except for once in ROTS. Sidious is really the only Sith Lord we see carry a fight exclusively through use of lightning/telekinesis/etc. Also, Vader uses telekinesis fairly sparingly against Luke, although you have to consider that Vader is aiming to capture Luke by isolating him from the potential for escape in TESB. The notion that Sith > Jedi when it comes to Force-based combat is pretty much limited to Sidious and possibly Vader. Jedi don't seem especially inclined to do so, but their Sith opponents don't necessarily gain all that much from their inclination to attack using the Force.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Dec 21, 2012
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  2. Darth Cornish Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 1
    I always assumed the Emperor was so powerful - having lightning powers - that he didnt need a lightsaber.
    For me having Dooku use sith lightning and Sidious a lightsaber watered down that impression a lot - I think to the detriment of the character.
  3. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Well, we've discussed this before, but some salient points:

    -Dooku's lightning is pansy lightning. The only person he really manages to injure with it is Anakin, who literally charges him with his guard down. Obi-Wan and Yoda have no problem deflecting Dooku's lightning. He certainly isn't able to carry a fight with it.

    -Sidious has always been a character with a lightsabre-he has one tucked away in the robe of his sleeve all the way back in ROTJ's earlier scripts. Yeah, not in the film, but the idea has pretty clearly always been there. He's also capable of incredible Force-powered fighting-he transitions from leaping from the Chancellor's little power thing, to casually tossing around Senate pods, to extended blasts of Force lightning that Yoda struggles to deflect. He's also the only Force-user we see who loses his sabre and it matters not a wit-he gets disarmed twice with Mace and Yoda but he's still incredibly lethal. Dooku and himself are like a Ford Fiesta and a McLaren F1: Both cars...that's where the similarities end though :p
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  4. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    Maul outdueled AND out Forced Kenobi. Remember his Force Push that knocked Kenobi into the pit?

    However yes, if both parties are well trained in the Force, regardless of Midi Count, they typically resort to Lightsabers, just like Tyranus and Yoda did in AOTC. If they insist on using the Force in combat when they are both well trained, what happens is what happened between Kenobi and Anakin, both force pushed each other into walls/computer consoles.
  5. Felicia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2012
    star 2
    Palpatine was trying to make Luke believe that there was no difference between Jedi and Sith as he did with Anakin in the prequel trilogy. Both Jedi and Sith use light sabers. It is just a play on words that Palpatine is using. He also tried to make Luke believe he was like Anakin. Although in the end Luke did say he was like Anakin but at the same time saying that he was not like Darth Vader.
    Last edited by Felicia, Dec 22, 2012
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  6. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    Again, did not know that! Cool. Star Wars idea recycling at its finest- and I don't mean that in a negative way, there are still so many brilliant ideas conceptualised for the films that have yet to be used, and the best place for them is on TCW, until the ST comes around.
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, at least one of the scripts has the Emperor having a lightsabre up his sleeve.
  8. Master_EdgeCrusher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 3
    Dark Jedi or Jedi
  9. natureboy76 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2009
    star 1
    I have to go with the idea Lucas didn't have the sith fully conceptualized back in the 80's and never intended the sith to be what we see them as now. This happens in sequels a bit. I think when he went to write the prequel trilogy he made the sith what they are to the narrative now. No bashing of Lucas--just something that happens in films.
  10. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Except a rival order to the Jedi existed from early on in the drafts of the original Star Wars. That eventually got pared down to just Vader and the emperor (and I don't think he was conceived of as a significant figure until later in the development of the series), but I think that Lucas did have the idea of something like the Sith as we know them by the time he was working on ROTJ.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Apr 16, 2013
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  11. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4


    How about . . . since Vader was using a lightsaber in ANH, Lucas and his writers created a blooper with that line in ROTJ.
  12. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I think the answer is pretty simple. The lightsaber is famously known as the weapon of the Jedi. I think he was just being a jerk and mocking Luke by letting him know that just because he uses a Jedi weapon he's not a Jedi.
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  13. Ambervikings91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    wouldn't it just be like saying "the gun is the weapon of the united states military" and it is, other militarys use guns also but it isn't a false statement. But everything the emperor says is clouded in BS so who knows what kinda agenda he is always keeping.
  14. Master Luke Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2013
    I think Palpatine wanted Luke to think that the sith are more powerful, and that you didn't need lightsabers to defend yourself because of it.
  15. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    EU explanations are official. Any that have an impact on the films need to be OK'd by GL so there.

    Palpatine was trying to convince Luke that the dark-side is stronger obviously. But I don't think he was saying there was no need for a lightsaber. Vader carried his lightsaber everywhere that wouldn't make sense. He simply wanted Luke to give into his anger symbolically by striking down his enemy in hatred with the weapon of the passion-less Jedi.
    Last edited by The Supreme Chancellor, Apr 22, 2013
  16. MRCynical Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2008
    star 1
    The lightning was extremely powerful against someone who didn't know how to block it (like Luke in ROTJ, or Anakin in AOTC) but much less so against a powerful, uninjured Jedi who did know how to block it (e.g. Yoda and Mace Windu (with both hands) in ROTS.
  17. kenwilliam Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    t these two were not in the final cut, so they are not cannon.
  18. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    Mace was able to beat Palpatine, while Yoda could not.. I think the 2 of them are fairly close in power. Even luke, in the ROTJ novel was able to block sith lightning with his hands..Had Mace not lost a hand, I am more than confident that he could have been able to block Palpatine's Lightning. The Jedi and the Sith both use light sabers because without them, they will be throwing stuff at each other until they both dropped from exhaustion..
  19. MRCynical Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2008
    star 1
    Palpatine had at least one opportunity to put his saber through Mace Windu's chest, and didn't take it because he needed Windu to be alive when Anakin arrived. He wasn't trying to kill Windu - he was trying to kill Yoda. (same reason why Vader was killed by force lightning in ROTJ while Luke wasn't)
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Luke wasn't dependent on a life support system which was damaged by the lightning.
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  21. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Maybe the Sith have a different name for lightsabers? Like Killerswords?
  22. MRCynical Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2008
    star 1
    Well there's that too (how could I forget THAT lol?). But the Emperor also used his full power on Vader - Vader's skeleton lit up briefly with the amount of energy, which never happened to Luke.
  23. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    That's a good point. Both Vader and Mace were given more lethal amounts, judging by the effects on them. Anakin and Luke received lesser amounts.

    I think Anakin wasn't hit as badly because Dooku wasn't as powerful, and/or was simply demonstrating his power. Meanwhile, the Emperor was trying to prolong Luke's suffering as long as possible. With Mace and Vader, they were shocked with the intent to kill.
  24. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 2
    Strictly based on the first 3 movies there are no Sith, we don't know why Anakin Skywalker changed his name to Darth Vader or even why he is a cyborg. There simply are many things that did not make it to the movies though things were scripted, shot and didn't make the final cut.

    Lucas himself pared down any exposition to a bare minimum and let that information out via the novels and in interviews. So lots of key stuff that is completely accepted does not appear in the movies. Strictly from the movies Vader is a fallen Jedi while the Emperor is a Dark Side user.

    So as per the question it is a Jedi weapon. Vader has one as does Luke (he made it as he lost the one Ben gave him).

    In the wider context it only makes sense that the Jedi created them but the Sith just use them when needed.
    Last edited by Qui-Riv-Brid, Apr 25, 2013
  25. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Going back to the original topic, it's interesting that Grievous says "I've been trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku!"
    I'd say the references to Jedi are certainly not mistakes. The Sith came from Jedi, and I guess they are just closely associated to most.
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