Saga Why did the Trade Federation trust the Emperor?

I get that they didn’t like the new space taxes and that they wanted to get rid of them? Still, it seems a bit stupid on their part to be trusting some anonymous guy who hides his face and obviously has his own agenda to dictate your business operations. Not to mention that this whole invasion plan seemed to setting them up for failure. It’s such a huge gamble that’s likely gonna backfire and torpedo your business.

Might’ve just been smarter to set up a Super PAC attacking any Senator who voted in favor of the new space taxes as a godless communist or some similar smear and prop up a bunch of anti-tax challengers who’d repeal the new space taxes.

 

I always thought Sidious played on the TF baser motivations, namely: greed.

 

Fear, not trust.

 

So instead of acting like fear is a bad and dangerous thing, I’m guessing Yoda should’be just said, “Fear leads to suicidal stupidity. Worry about it, do not.”

 

And isn't it?

 

Apparently not, if the green guys are any indication.

 

They basically became "slaves" of the Sith. Mere tools.

 

They allowed themselves to be enslaved through their stupidity. Letting the evil, shadowy, mysterious, cloaked hologram dictate your business decisions…not a wise move.

 

Either that or death. And no, it wasn't their stupidity. It was their greed that the Sith exploited. Once they made a deal, the Sith took over.

 

There is a difference between greed and stupidity. Greed would be setting up a Super PAC to replace all the Senators who raised your galactic space taxes with new Senators who would tax you at a rate that you liked. Stupidity is gambling everything on the plans of some shadowy guy whose face you’ve never seen and whose name you don’t know who obviously is using you as a pawn in his own agenda.

 

And how would that ever happen?

I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that the TF would ask Sidious for proof of his power and influence before making a deal.

 

Look at the world around you. It happens all the time. You see, it turns out that when you give Senators bribes disguised as “campaign contributions”, and you threaten to fund their opponent if they displease you, you can control their actions. Now, do you really think a corrupt megacorp like the Trade Federation would somehow view bribery as being unethical. It would’ve been the smart thing to do…and it works. Just look at the world around you. Every single member of the United States Senate is a paid employee of some big corporation.

So he did tell them who he was? I certainly never got the impression that they knew his real identity.

 

Right, but Palpatine has been bribing and intimidating over a third of the Senate to do his bidding, which has affected the Federation's ability to exert the influence that they once had. Hence the taxation of the Free Trade Routes that was put in place. Their greed was the fact that they couldn't afford to compete with the taxation laws and they chose to trust someone who offered them what they wanted. That is what the very nature of a Faustian deal is. It looks stupid because you know yourself enough to know that you wouldn't go for that.

No, they didn't know. What Palpatine did was cause certain events in the Senate to go the way that he wanted them to. That certain Senators would side with them on certain votes, while other Senators caused problems of Chancellor Valorum. Stuff that he would let them know about in advance and then see it happening would prove his claims, without revealing who he was. That's why he hid his face from them.

 

Sorry for the double post, but time ran out.

Don't ask, don't tell.

The whole point of the invasion, as far as they know, is that it will create sympathy for the Federation as they're willing to go to great lengths to stand up to the Senate. That they will no longer be at the beck and call of the Senate and will fight to gain the power that was taken from them by the Senate. Lord Sidious gave them assurances that the plan would succeed. And when they tried to back out, Sidious made it clear that doing so would not be smart.

DOFINE: "…This scheme of yours has failed, Lord Sidious. The blockade is finished! We dare not go against those Jedi."

SIDIOUS: "You seem more worried about the Jedi than you are about me, Dofine. I am amused… Viceroy!"

NUTE: "Yes, My Lord."

SIDIOUS: "I don’t want that stunted slime in my sight again… do you understand?"

NUTE: "Yes, My Lord."

SIDIOUS: "This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans, Viceroy. Begin landing your troops."

NUTE: "Ahhh, My Lord, is that… legal?"

SIDIOUS: "I will make it legal."

NUTE: "And the… Jedi?"

SIDIOUS: "The Chancellor should never have brought them into this. Kill them, immediately."

NUTE: "Ye… Yes, My Lord. As you wish."

They're scared ****less of him.

The Senate had to give up its power to Palpatine in order for him to bypass the Senate and authorize the creation and use of an army.

ASK AAK: "The debate is over. Now we need that clone army."

BAIL: "Unfortunately, the debate is not over. The Senate will never approve the use of clones before the Separatists attack."

MAS AMEEDA: "This is a crisis. The Senate must vote the Chancellor Emergency Powers. He can then approve the creation of an army."

PALPATINE: "But what senator would have the courage to propose such a radical amendment? If only... Senator Amidala were here."

The Senate would let them walk right over them. Ten thousand Jedi is not enough as both Yoda and Mace have said.

And they're scared that Darth Sidious would choke them to death, or kill their loved ones.

Or they did think that they were betrayed and then after having their asses bailed out by Darth Sidious, agreed to their plan to secede from the Republic and then go to war with them.

NUTE: "But we were betrayed?"

DOOKU: "Come now, Viceroy, you were never betrayed. My Master is responsible for your freedom and still has need of your services. You owe us."

Or something to that effect.

That's why he wanted her dead.

NUTE: "She can't do that! Shoot her or-- or something! This isn't how it's supposed to be! Jango! Finish her off!"

DOOKU: "Patience, Viceroy, patience. She will die."

1. They're dealing with a man who can choke them to death. They're dealing with a man who can get to them no matter where they go and he can get to their friends.

2. The Jedi didn't believe Qui-gon that the Sith were back. The Security Forces would inform the Jedi and the Jedi would dismiss their claims.

All military and political leaders think they're good, even when they're doing evil things. It isn't limited to the likes of Hitler. Hell, there are even normal people who are that way. The person who cheats on their spouse doesn't consider it an amoral act. Nor the businessman who gets rich off of cutting corners and kickbacks. Nor did the slave owners of two hundred some years ago saw what they did as evil. You don't have to be delusional. You can be just amoral and in some cases, immoral.

 

You have a point. I bet they almost certainly did verify some information about Sidious before TPM, the narrative as presented implies that this is not the first time they are speaking. The TF in TPM are shown at times as simpering/groveling (to Sidious), and lording it over others they have in their power (Naboo captives). The TF may not know an awful lot about Sidious, but they likely know that he can deliver on promises. I imagine he would have demonstrated his influence to them pre-TPM, but the film itself can't really get bogged down in this background: i.e.: Nute Gunray: "remember that time Lord Sidious asked us to choose if planet X or Z should receive special treatment in the Galactic Senate and have their motion brought forward first, and we chose planet X and they got to read their grievance first?" Haako: "Uh, huh!" Gunray: "He really can get things done." Haako: "Uh huh!"

 

And he gave them a plan. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious had suggested the invasion in the first place.

 

Of course, he suggested the invasion! The whole point of the invasion was to make him Chancellor! Literally, no one else benefits from the invasion but the Emperor!

 

Well, the Trade Federation would have benefited as well, had Queen Amidala signed the treaty.

 

So if she signed the treaty, that was gonna lower their space taxes? Since when does she have the authority to effect changes to interstellar tax policy? I thought the point of the treaty was to make the invasion legal.

And if the point of the treaty WAS to lower the space taxes, then that’s really not explained in the film AT ALL, just fueling my original criticism that the political dealings of these films are half-baked and poorly explained.

 

So you’re saying that the Emperor prevented them from getting a supermajority? That’s fair enough, although I’d imagine that a giant megacorp would be able to pick off just enough Senators to get their taxes lowered again.

If that’s the case (and you’re probably right on this one), then (placing myself into their position again) I would certainly believe his claims of having a large degree of influence over the Senate. Ironically, that being the case, would actually frighten me away from committing to any of his plans, because I’d then start to get suspicious about what he was really after, and whether I was simply getting screwed over as part of his own agenda. Again, looking at this from their perspective, I’d be thinking:

“Who is this guy and what does he want? It’s clear that he has some degree of power and it’s also clear that he’s going to great lengths to hide his real identity from us. He obviously has some kind of ulterior motive that I’m currently unaware of. He clearly benefits from this somehow. Something is very fishy about all this, and proceeding into any kind of relationship with this man is simply too dangerous. There are just too many ways in which this ends badly for me and I get screwed over.”

Don’t worry about it.

Not when the future of my entire operation is at stake. I would not participate in any arrangement with this guy unless I’d set it up it so that if I went down, he went down with me. Call it a little insurance policy. Hell, I’d insist on knowing his real identity so that, if for no other reason, I could make a deal where I give him up to the authorities if and when I’m arrested.

Um, how does this create sympathy for the Federation? It’s a blackmail scheme. Blackmail victims rarely have any sympathy for the perpetrators. Besides, isn’t it be far more likely that the invasion would create sympathy for the Naboo? It doesn’t exactly take a rocket scientist to realize that the Naboo will seem like the victims and you’ll look like the villains. Now, if you don’t care about making everyone hate you, I can understand that, and I can even admire it, to an extent, as long as you’re doing it intelligently and strategically. This is just stupid. In fact, the Emperor’s whole plan was for it to create sympathy for the Naboo, thus resulting in him becoming Chancellor.

Then why commit to his plans in the first place?They should’ve just backed out when they still had the chance. I mean, it’s not as if they’re the only STAR WARS characters to enter into a bad deal with a Sith Lord, but at least those other characters knew when to back out and cut their losses.



Ironically, Lando actually made out better in the end than the Trade Federation did…precisely because he recognized a bad deal and backed out of it.

The issue with the Clone Army seems to be gridlock, though, which is different. Are you really telling me that they could get enough Senators to vote in favor of surrendering to Federation blackmail? Again, I doubt it.

And Lando doubtlessly feared Vader’s retribution, yet he was still smart enough to realize that he was getting screwed and there was no good ending for him if he continued giving in to Vader’s demands. He made the best possible choice under the circumstances. The Federation made the worst possible choice. Don’t go through with the deal. Don’t make ANY commitments. Don’t put yourself in a situation where you can be compromised. Don’t make the bargain in the first place.

Again, let me emphasize: they NEVER should’ve made the bargain. They SHOULD NOT have entered into a deal with a guy whose face they can’t see and whose name they don’t know. They SHOULD have said, “I will not entertain any further offers, nor commit to any of your plans, until you show me your face and tell me your name.” If he refused, they should’ve hung up on him and been done with him. If he calls, don’t pick up the phone. Don’t return any of his calls. Cease any further contact with this man. Instead, they do the dumbest possible thing and make a deal with him. Yes, backing out of the deal would’ve been dangerous. Therefore, they never should’ve made a deal in the first place.

Again, let’s compare their fate to Lando’s fate:

Lando:



Trade Federation:

In which case my initial opinion of them is absolutely correct.

The same applies to Lando and Vader, even more so since Vader can act openly.

You don’t have to mention him being a Sith Lord. If they press you on it, you can say, “He claimed to be a Sith Lord.” It doesn’t matter if they believe he’s a Sith Lord. All that matters is that they believe someone threatened you.

 

Indeed. The novel Cloak of Deception explains it. Folks should think of Sidious's actions as being somewhat similar to those of the Joker and the mob in TDK: "You can work with me, or I can be your worst enemy."

 

The difference is that the Mob did initially dismiss the threat of the Joker…as did Batman and Gordon for that matter. Yes, the Chechen accepted the Joker’s offer to kill Batman, but I suspect he simply saw the Joker as a colorful (and slightly psychotic) hitman at that point. Remember that once Maroni decides that the whole Joker deal has gone badly for them and gotten out of their control, his first reaction is to help Gordon get the Joker. In other words, as soon as the Joker started becoming TOO dangerous and attempted to take over their business operation, he went to Gordon for help in getting rid of him.

 

Lest we forget, Sidious didn't just pop up out of nowhere 10 minutes into TPM and strike a deal, he already had a partnership of sorts with the Federation. Prior to the movie events he's presumably made several good things happen for Neimodians who cooperate and quite possibly caused very bad things happen for some who didn't. He's in charge and they know it

 

Decent speculation, but it’s just as valid to assume that the whole tax debacle initiated the partnership. I think there’s even a line where one of them says, “We should not have made this bargain,” implying that the partnership started with the whole tax thing.

 

That does not make any sense.