Lit Why did the Tusken Raiders torture Shmi?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by cthugha, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. TheWiseJedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Here's the thing about the Tusken raiders attack on shmi: There was really no real reason why they would want to attack her. the best guess that I have is that they were hired by gradulla the hutt to attack Shmi. After all, Anakin was sold to the Hutt and he was freed after he won the pod race. Hutts do not like to give up there merchandise and well Anakin was exactly that.. valuable merchandise.

    Why did the farmers do nothing? - They fell under the by stander non intervention. What this means is that in a group setting, the likely hood that you would act when there is clearly trouble is slim. Also there is something called " pluralistic ignorance" this states that if you would see something on the street, say a man with a heart attack, you would not act because you do not see anyone else reacting and why should you. So the farmers are not at fault here because psychology states that this would be normal. The tusken non combatants also fit into here as well.

    how do we know all the tuskens are at fault?- this is common under "Obedience to authority" Basically what is happening here is that under the right conditions someone can be pushed to do anything.In other words they were forced to play along with the real threat, even though they did not really want to. are they all guilty? no not at all, but the few that committed the act influences the ones who did not want to be apart of it.

    The real issue is not whether anakin had the right to act as he did, but is there a reason for his actions.His mother was brutally tortured at the hands of said individuals, his promise to her that "I will come back to free you mom, I promise" (Young anakin addressing his mom " The Phantom menence") Was broken because he never got the chance to free his mother. His pain must have been felt, as you can see the change of music from right after his mom died until he realized that he broke a promise. these events in his life greatly influences his actions for the rest of the series. he will blame himself for the rest of his life.

    can anakin be excused from this crime? no not at all, but as Padme mentions " to be angry is to be human"( attack of the clones). Does Anakin have the right to be angry in this case: yes he does. does he have the right to take the law into his own hands? no he does not, but then again not many people go through what he went though.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  2. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    Wait, that's against text? Dammit. No, screw that. You know they did. Totally did.
    Last edited by Rogue1-and-a-half, Oct 12, 2012
    RC-1991 likes this.
  3. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Wait, we're done talking about me now?

    Aw.
  4. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    HEY EVERYBODY! JELLO'S A PHONY! A BIG, FAT PHONY!

    And @Rogue1-and-a-half- yeah, probably.
  5. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    No need to get personal with the 'F' word RC-1991! ;)
  6. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    The words... they have lost all meaning. It's just noise. Horrible noise.

    How else do you expect them to survive us? There's only so much alcohol one can drink.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Oct 12, 2012
    RC-1991 and Havac like this.
  7. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    How else will he wash down the shame of his secret Mothmatism?
  8. cthugha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    Actually, this was the best conversation I have ever read on it. Not all of it, naturally, but some of the longer posts got me thinking about using this thread in a class on moral philosophy :-B
    Last edited by cthugha, Oct 12, 2012
  9. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Watto won him from Gardulla though.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    As far as board conversations on this subject go, there was a much better discussion on the temp boards. That one was the only one I've ever been in here, in which I could have some understanding of the point of view opposite of mine, as the posters in question made better thought out posts than "ANAKIN IS EVIL! WHO CARES WHAT THE TUSKENS DID! ANAKIN IS EVIL!"

    That said, I'll give Jello and Peabody credit here for making arguments with back up and scene analysis instead of just touting the above. With their arguments I could understand that our differing points of view came from differing scene analysis and a difference in opinion on whether Anakin should be held to a different standard than the Tuskens.
  11. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    The Tuskens kidnapped and tortured Shmi because they view the farmers as encroaching on their land and stealing their resources. They were probably in the vicinity of the moisture farm planning on some act of sabotage to the vaporators and just got lucky with Shmi being there. They slowly tortured her to death because she was the evil Other and her torment gave them some sort of sick catharsis born out of their hatred of the farmers.

    For a real world example of a very similar thing being done by supposedly civilized human beings from a liberal democracy, see: Abu Ghraib.

    edit: No conspiracy theories are required, sometimes bad stuff just happens.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Oct 13, 2012
    Ulicus likes this.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Or as a couple of PPs have mentioned, because they were jerks.
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    They went to crappy schools and had teachers who just didn't care enough. Ergo, nothing they do is really their fault.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  14. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Yes, let's ignore the social and historical context that led to the animosity between Tuskens and farmers. After all, acknowledging the reasons for their behavior obviously means we're sympathizing with them....

    edit:
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Heck, we might as well give the Tuskens a medal. I'm totally on board with their slow and brutal torture of a defenseless woman.

    Or maybe I'm just saying "they're mindless animals" is rarely a sufficient explanation for the behavior of an entire group of sapient individuals....
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Oct 13, 2012
  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    No, no, no, only humans get medals. Didn't you watch ANH?
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  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Animosity between Tuskens and farmers is not a reason for the slow torture of Shmi. The animosity most likely started before Shmi came to Tatooine, therefore she had nothing to do with it. The equivalent on Anakin's end would be his returning to Tatooine many years later, kidnapping a random Tusken woman, spending a month torturing her to death, while Force-choking and dismembering any male Tuskens who tried to rescue her.

    And I definitely don't think they were mindless animals. If I did, I'd have more sympathy for them.
  17. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    i agree that anakain was never truly repentent about that slaughter.
  18. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Yes, it was the reason. A reason is not a justification!
  19. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Isn't it a SW take on the New Americans vs the First Americans throughout the Old West?
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Oct 13, 2012
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Based on TCW movie novelization, I strongly disagree with you. His guilt was the reason he didn't want to discuss Tatooine with Ahsoka, and it was on his mind constantly.
  21. Good_News_Nobody Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2011
    star 1
    Ah, Hett. Of course we all hated A. Skywalker after his shameful outburst back then, yeees.. Now we all hate Hett as well, and almost wish Anakin had struck him down as well. A man of the past is not responsible for his future deeds. A man of the future is responsible for his past.
  22. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    it was on his mind, because he knew the dark side was hunting him, and he did not want anyone to know what he was capable of.
  23. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Basically. Atrocities committed by both sides, each one being used to justify the next.
  24. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Exactly! Which raises the question why Hett Snr. didn't try to mediate some common ground between both sides (having a foot in both camps, as well as being an experienced Jedi) while he was there - instead of just leading an army! Also why he didn't look further into the agitation and find out that it was the Hutts stirring up trouble, in an attempt to offload some out-of-date blasters!
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    That is not what I inferred from the novel at all. Maybe you read the novel differently in which case we'll have to agree to disagree, because you won't convince me that I read it wrong or that your interpretation was the only correct one.

    As I read it, Anakin not only felt remorse, but he felt it at a level that later led to his destruction. I didn't read at all that he was thinking, "Cool, dude, I can do dark stuff! Better not tell anyone though, the Council wouldn't like it."