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Rogue One Why did they try to kill Jyn's father?

Discussion in 'Anthology' started by JammerPickle, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Right. If Mothma had her way, Cassian would have returned with Jyn, and they would have regrouped about how to contact Galen. But Draven went rogue with his shadow crew (note that during those scenes with Draven, it is night time and nobody from the Alliance Council is present). In the face of Jedha's destruction, he decided to act quickly to take out Galen before he could do any further harm. He was a hardliner, and he made a bad decision. I thought it was made clear, in the film, that it wasn't the right or smart thing to do. And Cassian recognized that.
     
  2. IG Lancer

    IG Lancer Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Yes, but my point is, even if killing Galen were the intelligent and right thing to do, Cassian's team had barely chance of succeeding, and many chances of getting caught and tortured for the location of the Rebellion's headquarters...

    The only reason Cassian had a chance to shoot Galen was because Krennic thought that punishing Galen and the other scientists out under the rain would be more dramatic that doing it inside... Were not for Krennic's sense of dramatics, Cassian would have to enter the base and seek Galen, and while entering Imperial top security facilities is ridiculously easy in the movies (steal a Stormtrooper suit and you can go everywhere), the chances of Cassian being caught and interrogated were still too high to be acceptable.
     
  3. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016

    That was a natural platform they were standing on for greeting Director Krennic. It was used for ceremonial purposes. The Scientists & engineers come out and stand on duty so the an Imperial officer can inspect them. Later the Director would be shown into the facility and the weapons presented to him. So it was easy for Cassian to locate Galen and shoot. I would go further i say that he had an excellent opportunity to eliminate Director Krennic as well.
     
  4. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I've written about this in the reviews thread so to summarize.

    To me, I found the kill order on Galen a bit of a forced conflict and one that didn't totally makes sense.

    That the rebels had incomplete info. Sure but if they are operating in the dark do they know how important Galen was to the project? The rebels wouldn't know what Krennic said to Galen at the start of the film.
    I've seen the film twice but I don't recall the rebels having info that tells them that Galen is the ONLY man that can get the DS to work. To them, he works on it, nothing more.

    Second, that the general goes behind the council's back. We don't get much of a reason why he does this. Why is he so against trying to take Galen alive? That he goes against orders and does this needs a solid reason but none was given.

    Third, after Jedha, when even he knows the DS is working. So killing Galen then would most likely not affect the DS in any way but also by then he has info that suggests that Galen is on their side and getting him out could give them tons of useful knowledge.
    If they think that the DS can be delayed then I can see some motive for killing Galen. But once they know the DS is pretty much ready, then a delay is no longer possible and getting detailed info about the DS becomes much more important.

    Fourth, the rebels take Jyn to their very secret base. And yet this general orders Cassian to kill her father. That isn't likely to make her very happy with the rebels. And given that she knows where the base is, then killing her father could cause her to hate them and she could leave and tell the empire where the base is, which would be very bad.

    In closing, I think a revised order like "Extract Galen if possible but if that isn't doable then kill him."
    That would have worked better.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Having seen RO a second time, I still can't help but wonder why Captain Andor did not shoot Galen on sight.

    Not because of the specific order of General Draven (which essentially was only a guess), but because of what Captain Andor had learned from Jyn in the meantime (i.e. that Galen had installed a flaw in the Death Star's design and sent a messenger to deliver these news).

    When Andor saw Galen and his engineers on the landing platform, I'm confident he didn't just think that all these guys where summoned there in the rain because the microwave ovens aboard the Death Star weren't working...;)

    With the information provided by Jyn he could or should have concluded that Krennic had learned about the messenger, too (hence his visit and the scenery) and would eventually (through torture or other means) find out about the actual message Galen sent.

    IIRC, Andor said earlier something about not risking what he had worked for throughout his life (i.e. the Alliance eventually overthrowing the Empire), yet by not pulling the trigger when he had the chance, he did exactly that, IMHO.
     
  6. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016

    Cassian had misled Jyn and the others on the ship they were with knew this. The facade was over. Combine this with witnessing the destruction of Jedha. Their worst fears had just come true. Cassian came round to the the view that the mission was not worth it. Take him alive became the far better outcome of all this. That way Galen could vouch on what Jyn said and help find a way to prevent another Jedha from taking place. The Rebel Command was also in shock after the Death Star test. Picking up on points raised earlier they lacked any knowledge of the true strength of the Empire and focusing all their attention on getting rid of the likes of Saw and other potential spies within the Alliance.
     
  7. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    I would go a step further the Empire had the Rebels beaten in RO. It was very much after their unnecessary military build up and construction of the Death Star that we begin to see active resistance from the former worlds of the Galactic Republic. Up to that point the Empire had a comfortable time playing one Rebel faction against another. Saw's armed militia made for a great proxy for Director Krennic and target practice for the Storm Troopers.
     
  8. Darth Jaster

    Darth Jaster Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jan 5, 2017
    Their mission was illogical bc they thought that by killing him, the Death Star's creation would perish with him. They were far too late to consider killing him, as the Death Star was essentially already made, and could even have been continued with the father (Galen said as much during the film). Maybe they could have killed him years back when the Death Star was still in its earlier stages and the empire truly needed Galen's help.
     
  9. 357hermon

    357hermon Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 6, 2016
    Galen occurred to the rebels as the catalyst for the Death Stars success. Not understanding, before Jyn's debate after seeing her father's hologram, that he had to play along as an imperial worker that could be potentially replaced. His obedience was the Rebel's success and they had no idea at first, thus his allusion to Oppenheimer.
     
  10. EviL_eLF

    EviL_eLF Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2003
    The Rebels are at their bitter end. In 18yrs they have not had even one single victory against the Empire. They hear about a planet killer of a super weapon and they get desperate. They feel extraction has such little chance of success, their only real option to hurt the development of that super weapon is to kill the lead scientist behind it's being built. They don't even know that it's all but complete at that point when that order is given.
     
  11. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    Mothma and Co. probably aren't totally innocent in the whole thing, Draven is their ''black ops'' guy - they leave the really shady stuff to him to deal with so they can maintain plausible deniability. Assassinating one scientist doesn't really fit the PR image the Rebels want to pitch but once Krennic and a cadre of Death Troopers roll up it becomes a legitimate military target and hence send in the X-Wings.
     
  12. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Bob the X-Winger wrote

    Take him alive became the far better outcome of all this.

    Absolutely, especially since at that point in time the Alliance had no idea whatsoever how to get their hands on the Death Star plans. Thus, capturing the main engineer to provide assistance locating the flaw should have had top priority OR to shoot him to prevent Krennic from learning about that flaw from Galen under torture.

    The one thing I personally find difficult to understand (YMMV) is the obvious criticism expressed here regarding Alliance's "black ops" tactics or the Alliance's moral ambiguity.

    One of my pet theories remains that Yavin IV was an official Imperial archeological excarvation site (the relics in Palpatine's office anteroom supposedly come from Yavin IV according to Complete Locations...) and that part of the Alliance's plan was to lure Palpatine there (with reports of an incredible Sith find) to dispose of him ASAP and to end the civil war.

    I for one would not have minded such a strategy as it could have saved thousands if not millions of people that probably otherwise would have died in the ongoing civil war.
     
  13. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 6, 2017
    Galen Erso was a top Imperial scientist. That made him a prime target. Cassian was told in secret to kill him, but when they crashed on Eadu, an airstrike was called in instead because they thought Cassian had possibly been compromised or died because they lost communication.

    It's unclear why Cassian didn't snipe him, but it's very likely that Jyn had an influence on him not being able to, despite his orders. He obviously started to care about Jyn because when he saw Jyn on the platform sneaking around, he got very panicked, knowing the airstrike was inbound.
     
    Bob the X-Winger likes this.
  14. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    It was clear to me that Draven was operating outside the bounds of the mandate and orders given to him by Mothma.

    The novelization also seems to confirm this.

    Mothma and the broader Alliance Council wanted Galen captured and brought to the Senate for testimony, plain and simple. Draven was a hardliner who disagreed.
     
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  15. Too-Gon Onbourbon

    Too-Gon Onbourbon Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2016
    I think Draven is off the meter stupid about this once he gets confirmation the Death Star is operational because at that point the future of the galaxy becomes dependent on stopping the monstrosity and the most likely path to that are the high level scientists and engineers that created it.

    Kill is only a rational backup position but a even at that dubious because what you need is a better extraction plan. I think emotions are distorting priorities. I think Draven is looking through the lense of Galen being a traitor and a collaborator instead of focusing on the reality that they are desperate for information to have a prayer in the dark of any resistance to the Empire whatever Orso had become.

    I thought it was a very questionable order in the beginning but became stupid once the toothpaste was clearly out of the tube.
     
  16. chris hayes

    chris hayes Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 13, 2012
    He had a weapon of mass destruction.....
     
  17. bizzbizz

    bizzbizz Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2015
    they thought killing him would stop the death star project. they also probably thought that he was evil and that he was a valid military target
     
  18. LadyZ

    LadyZ Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 16, 2000
    Krennic was an even more valid military target but the Alliance chose to shoot the only guy who wanted to help them. Thank the Force that Cassian's "inner rebel" stepped forward in the right moment, though it would have been better if he suddenly chose another target (Krennic).
     
  19. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Here's a different take on the original topic question:

    Galen humanized the Empire. Rogue One made it clear that the common view of Galen Erso was not that he was a troubled soul forced to work for the Empire, but simply the evil, mad scientist giving the Empire new tools of destruction. And that's how the audience views most of the Empire. Emperor: kill that dude. Stormtrooper: Yeah!! Blast him!!! TIE fighter pilot: cannon fodder.

    What about any of the dudes at the ANH Death Star roundtable meeting with Tarkin and Vader?

    It isn't until you attach a conflicted backstory to any of these individuals is the audience allowed to think "how can they just kill this person?"

    Didn't we all want Luke to cut Vader down and raise his saber in victory, until we found out Vader was his father? Wait. Stop the press. He's a dad. Perhaps there is a different answer than killing him. Guess what. Many of the dudes in the Empire were probably dads. Some might have even had sons and daughters in the rebellion. Then that evil Saw type scoundrel, Han Solo, killed him in cold blood.

    This was probably one of the best things this episode offered to the Star Wars Movie Universe. Some of the movie was already set in stone by the ANH opening crawl. This was not one of them. This addition to the SWMU was the above and beyond.