Why did TPM Soundtrack end with Anakin's theme?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by BobaFrank, Aug 4, 2001.

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  1. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    Something that bothered me about TPM's soundtrack is that in the original trilogy for example ROTJ after the celebration music you have the regular SW theme then it seguays (i hope i spelled that right) into the Ewok theme and then Luke & Leia's theme then back out to the SW theme and then a grand finale. In TPM it just ends with Anakin's theme. Also, what happened to Darth Vader's breathing at the end? It's in the movie but not the soundtrack.
  2. Askaak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2000
    star 4
    Isn't Duel of the Fates in there somewhere too?
  3. Imhotep Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2001
    Perhaps to bring upon the fact that it not over yet.
  4. GasCabbie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 4
    Vader Breathing is a sound effect, therefor has nothing to do with music. SFX guru Ben Burtt is behind that, not John Williams.

    As for a finale, I don't think it would fit. The next two films are going to be very dark, and finales are not good for leading into dark movies, IMO. I think that John Williams puts plenty of thought into the soundtracks.
  5. Sithman Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    In case you didn't notice, the whole ending of the movie is subtly evil and foreboding, the ending credits therefore ends the same. Very ingenius of JW, in my opinion.

    ~Sithy~
  6. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    Yes, what Sithman said. Still, I think it would have been cool to have Vader's breathing on the soundtrack.
  7. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    The fanfare as a coda for the OT was fitting, as the rebels were fighting back. The light side was returning to challenge the dark side that had taken control of the galaxy. But in the PT, it's the opposite. The dark side is taking over, and things are getting progressively worse. The downbeat coda reflects that.
  8. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    I'm actually disapointed that the end titles music wasn't more like the OT music had established in reviewing the many different themes used throughout the movie. For example, after DOTF it could have went to (yeah it seems stupid but trust me) Jar Jar's theme, then Qui-Gon's, and perhaps even Palpatine's before ending with Anakin's theme.

    As it stands now, I like it but to me it's indicative of the less than spectacular hatchet job Williams' music was put through for the end battles. I wonder if he even recorded any end title music for TPM because as it is now, it's just a sound mixer and an engineer splicing DOTF and Anakin's theme together.
  9. Sithman Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Yah, I wish they woulda put in Vader's breathing too! :(

    Oh, Jar Jar's, Qui's, and most of all, the Trade Federation's themes shoulda been there too!

    ~Sithy~
  10. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    Yes the TF march too! I forgot about that wonderful piece. Including that one would have made it even more like the OT's score as it would have echoed ESB's Imperial March during the end titles of that great film.

    I hope at some point, maybe for the ultimate DVD boxed set, Williams can revisit his TPM score and perhaps change/add a few things since the movie wouldn't have the hectic editing phase it initially went through which resulted in sloppy cutting.
  11. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    The end credits for TPM were not edited, as the rest of the score was. Not in the film, anyway.

    Curiously, if you know what to listen for, you can tell by listening to the original CD release. The "Anakin's Theme" that appears as a separate track on the CD is the exact same piece of music heard in the end credits. At the top of the track, you can hear the final note for DOTF that had preceeded it. To create the "Anakin's Theme" track, they simply lifted that performance out of the end credits and dropped it onto the CD as a separate, superfluous track.

    Also, the version of DOTF in the film's end credits is different from what's on either CD release. Both CDs substituted the film's version for the concert suite, which was edited in. I don't know why they did this. The film's version was a cutdown, and had a slightly different arrangement in places.

    The end result on the original CD release is that you had the exact same piece of music on two separate occasions, making for about 9 minute of redundancy: time that could have gone towards other, unheard music, such as Qui-Gon's theme.
  12. Lord Mauly Mall TFN/JC Banner Artist Team

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    Oct 21, 1999
    star 7
    I'm aware Anakin's theme in the end titles is the exact same as the one released on the first soundtrack, which is why I thought that Williams didn't even record an end titles piece. I'll have to hear it again to try and find that first bit of DOTF. Another thing that compounded the issue with the Ultimate Edition is that they had the end titles of course, but without the exact 'remixed' version of DOTF as it was featured in the end titles of the film! They just included the normal version and then it segued to Anakin's theme. I liked that new version of DOTF as it was heard in the end titles of TPM and I wish they would have included it on the UE.

    And yes, as you pointed out, dehrian, the original soundtrack has redundant tracks. The whole TPM soundtrack was a fiasco from beginning to end, starting from the spoiler issue of "Qui-Gon's Noble End". And even when Sony tried to make ammends with the UE, it still turned out a mess.

    LFL please give the soundtracks back to RCA, they know how to deal with Star Wars soundtracks properly. :D
  13. bright sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 1999
    star 5
    I basically agree with LMM. To me, the end credits is one of the most anticipated parts of a SW film to me just because of Williams' music. As you guys have pointed out, the Anakin's theme and DOTF at the end are basically suite versions of the cues. While that in itself is no wrong, it is a disappointment when I first saw the film realizing that Williams did not try to integrate the themes as he did in the OT. While some have made the arguement that this was meant to be dark and forbidding, I would hardly think ESB's finale is up-lifting. And yeah, integrating the themes of TPM onto the end credits sequence could still maintain a dominating somber tension.
  14. JWK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2000
    star 4
    Because he wanted to end with anakins theme, duh!
  15. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    Partly because the film is about Anakin. Like Star Wars is about Luke, it ends with Luke's theme, The Phantom Menace is about Anakin, and it ends with Anakin's theme. Also, it hints that not everything is rosy as we're led to believe for the galaxy, too.
  16. Attack Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 1
    Right. Though ESB was dark, things were ultimately going to turn out okay. Even the final moments of ESB are hopeful ones. The music reflects that.

    The PT, though, is the opposite. Even though things may appear to be happy, the music tells us that everything is not okay, and to be wary. Like the Jaws theme telling us when the shark is present.
  17. EmpressMara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 1
    I think that concluding with Anakin's Theme is a musical foreshadowing of the dark events that are to come. Listen to the end of Anakin's Theme very carefully and you will hear a phrase ending that contains a fragment of The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme). This brief musical quotation serves as a fine example of John William's cleverness and creativity.

    There were so many visual "Easter eggs" in TPM. Remember the "E.T.'s" in the Senate? GL had to pay back Steven Spielberg for the scene in E.T. where there is a kid trick-or-treating in a "Yoda" costume. John Williams, of course, makes a brief quotation of Yoda's Theme on the E.T. soundtrack during this scene. I loved that! It wasn't the first time JW did something like that. I remember a lengthy quotation of "When You Wish Upon A Star" in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. That was a very fine film score moment! JW is full of surprises....

    Back to Anakin's Theme: did any one else hear what I described earlier?
  18. Sithman Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Yes, I heard what you described earlier. I know what you mean. You hear those last 6 notes of the Imperial March, then the music soars back into Anakin's Theme so quickly that you almost think that you didn't even hear what you did...... Yet it was really there. Veeeeery spooky.

    ~Sithy~
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