CT Why did Vader take orders from Tarkin?

VadersFollower wrote

What was always weird and out of place for me is when Tarkin kind of barks at Vader "Im taking an awful risk lord vader. This will better work!" as if hes threatening him.

I was under the impression that Tarkin was concerned that Han and Chewie might find the tracking beacon, remove it and place it close to a giant star, so once the Death Star would exit hyperspace it would be too close to its gravitational pull and could have lead to the destruction of the battle station.

 

I think Tarkin is most definitely talking about allowing the plans to be analysed by the rebels even if it leads them to their hidden base.

 

I've never seen that scene as Vader obeying an order, more like Vader giving Tarkin due respect. Tarkin is very powerful in the Empire, in command of the Empire's military and is afforded a certain level of respect, particularly in front of subordinate officers, even by Vader. In other scenes they speak to eachother as equals. But Vader is outside the military hierarchy altogether and doesnt answer to Tarkin. Both answer to nobody except the Emperor.

 

Martoto77 wrote

I think Tarkin is most definitely talking about allowing the plans to be analysed by the rebels even if it leads them to their hidden base.

That's an alternate possibility, I agree.

It's just that I found his interest during the Death Star conference retrieving the plans somewhat lackluster, he seemed more interested to find the Rebel base and obliterate it.

Had he seriously thought that the Death Star plans could be a problem, maybe he would not have snapped at Commander Number One ('Chief Bast') when he suggested evacuation.

 

That takes place before the Falcon arrives and Vader surmises that they have brought the plans to Leia. Allowing them to escape guaranteed the plans would get to the Rebellion. Beforehand it was just a possibility that they may have.

 

Not really. In TESB, Vader is in charge of the fleet which is being used to find the Rebel base. Vader is in charge because he was put in charge of the fleet. In ROTJ, Vader is the emissary for Palpatine who is on his way and he takes charge once he gets there. Jerjerrod is in charge of the Death Star when Vader arrives and is only there to put them back on schedule. Tarkin is in charge of the Death Star in ANH and as such, Vader is subservient to him.

Tarkin's concern because if the Falcon stops and Han disables the tracking device, then they've lost their one sure bet at finding the base.

 

In ANH, Vader seems to be just a agent that performs the dirty jobs outside of official channels. In ANH he only had been given command and authority to retrieve the plans. He did not have command or authority over the Death Star as Tarkin had that. In TESB Vader was placed in charged of a task force to find the rebel base and Luke. In ROTJ he was placed in charge of putting construction back on schedule, then Palps reassigned him to oversee the Imperial fleet ambush. There is a deleted scene after Vader's reassignment where Jepperoid smugly bars Vader's entry to see Palps with the royal guards poised to strike Vader. Not to mention Palp orders Vader to the SSD like a father ordering his kid to their room, then quite angry when Vader returns from the SSD.

 

Because Vader had basically allowed Leia and the others to escape with the Death Star plans, putting a beacon on their ship to track them. Tarkin's expressing frustration that the idiot may very well have doomed them if the Rebels ever find a weakness and exploit it.



Which they did.

 

I never took it as just his concern. If hed said "We're taking an awful risk here, I hope itll work" then yeah, but he says "IM taking an awful risk LORD VADER! This will better work!" in a very stern tone

 

Tarkin may have thought that, if things fell through, the Emperor would have to choose between killing an apprentice who made a big tactical error, and killing an Imperial governor in charge of a planet-destroying space station. He may have figured that, while he might have been reprimanded, Vader would get the chop.

 

I always figured on the Death Star it was kind of a "My house, my rules" sort of thing. You know... pick up your socks, no blasting your music at late hours of the night, and don't kill any high ranked officials during important meetings.

 

He's a Grand Moff. Of course he's going to sound stern.

 

"You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion".

Perhaps we should take this literally to mean Vader and Tarkin are close enough to be - if not "friends" - at least old allies, with enough of a bond between them, and enough security about their position in the hierarchy to have no cause to fear each other.

Perhaps knowing they don't have to kill each other to get ahead is enough to qualify as friendship in the upper echelons of the Empire?

 

A few notes from the Annotated Screenplays and ANH novelization:

"I tell you, he's gone too far this time," the General was insisting vehemently.
"This Sith Lord inflicted on us at the urging of the Emperor will be our undoing.
Until the battle station is fully operational, we remain vulnerable.

"The technical data to which you are obliquely referring," rumbled Darth Vader
angrily, "will soon be back in our hands. If—"
Tarkin shook the Dark Lord off, something no one else at the table would have
dared to do. "It is immaterial. Any attack made against this station by the rebels
would be a suicidal gesture, suicidal and useless—regardless of any information they
managed to obtain. After many long years of secretive construction," he declared
with evident pleasure, "this station has become the decisive force in this part of the
universe. Events in this region of the galaxy will no longer be determined by fate,
by decree, or by any other agency. They will be decided by this station!"

 

Pretty much ^
In the first movie Vader was this kind of gestapo agent, not much more. It wasnt after the enormous popularity of the character that he became much much more from Empire on

 

Doing some research on another question, I ran across this in the R1 novel:

Did Tarkin believe the Death Star was not ready to be tested? That the primary weapon would fail?
Revealing the Death Star as impotent above Jedha carried substantial risk—it would be humiliating, as much for Tarkin as for Krennic. Yet Krennic had heard rumors that the Emperor’s right hand—Darth Vader himself—kept Tarkin as a close ally.
Was it conceivable Tarkin sought to use Vader as a shield?
A bold man, Tarkin. Bold and arrogant enough to orchestrate a public failure and deflect responsibility.
Which raised another question: Why did Tarkin believe the test would fail at all? He had long belittled Krennic’s own ability, mocked Krennic’s every recitation of the engineering challenges before them, so perhaps his disdain had blinded him to success, but to build a risky plan on an ungrounded assumption seemed unwise even for Tarkin.
Was it mere coincidence that Tarkin had summoned Krennic while the firing array was being placed?
Would Tarkin go so far as to sabotage the installation?

Interesting politics between Tarkin and Vader.

[EDIT] More stuff:

What did it say about Emperor Palpatine that he chose such a man as his enforcer?
No. Krennic shook his head, refusing to nurture that thought. The Emperor was vindictive, but not mad. He was a gamesman, a being of vast vision and vaster ambitions who’d begun his life as an ordinary politician and seized extraordinary opportunities as they arose; used each to its utmost advantage. Palpatine had tamed Vader, but he had not created the self-styled mystic and lord of the dead Sith cult.
That gave Krennic hope. If a senator from Naboo could leash Vader, then surely Krennic could as well. Whether he was here for accolades or castigation, he could creep into Vader’s inner circle and break the alliance between Vader and Tarkin. He had the means: The seed planted in his mind at Jedha had reached maturity on Eadu, and he had found Tarkin’s weakness. He only needed a chance to exploit it.

 

It seemed Tarkin was the number two guy in the Empire (behind the Emperor of course) and Vader as number three. When it came to military strategy and running the Death Star, Tarkin was in charge. Vader, in a New Hope, was more of a henchman. He became more important and meaningful in ESB.

 

In the Tarkin book, we see The Emperor, Vader, and Tarkin form some kind of triumvirate (with Palpatine having the most power). I think Tarkin is more of a mastermind/strategist while Vader is an enforcer and the "iron fist" of the Empire.

 

I would say Vader remained a gestapo agent in all 3 OT films, just placed in larger and more important tasks in the later 2. In TESB, it seems he was just a agent in charge of a very large task force and not a number 2 of the entire empire.

 

It's the best way to think about it. Vader and Tarkin wouldn't hesitate to turn on one another or kill each other if they were ordered to or had no choice, but they would be sorry if they had to do so. I get the sense that Tarkin was one of only a small number of higher-ups, including Thrawn, who Vader actually respected.

 

Lucas had different ideas on the role of the Jedi-turned-Sith, when making ANH. In the first draft, Valorum was roughly the same rank as Vader and Hoedaack, but was not really respected by them. In the second draft, Vader operated on his own with two Sith Lords assisting him. The third draft was much the same way, except all three Sith were equal in rank. So by the fourth draft, Lucas felt that having an Imperial commander like Hoedaack was necessary and that's why we have Tarkin. It wasn't really popularity that saw Vader command the fleet in TESB, since he only barks out orders to Ozzel and then PIett. And as I noted in ROTJ, Jerjerrod is in charge of the DS II and Vader's there as Palpatine's emissary before he arrives and takes charge. Then he's sent to the Executor to wait for the strike team, though he doesn't know that they're coming. Even in the deleted scene, Jerjerrod tries to bar Vader from seeing Palpatine and is almost killed for doing so.

 

Hmm, interesting. To me it looks like Vader has been given control of the entire military fleet. Perhaps an extreme reaction from the Emperor after the destruction of the death star.

Admiral Ozzel looks like he's not used to answering to Vader, but he (and all the other captains and admirals) learn very quickly who's in charge for the time being.

 

In my head cannon, I always took it as Vader was in charge of the Imperial Navy(Star Destroyers), and Tarkin was in charge of the Imperial Army, of which Death Star was one of it's weapons. Which, in turn, explains why Vader was subservient to Tarkin on the Death Star.

 

I thought Tarkin acted as a check for Vader so that he doesn't fall out of line and subvert the Emperor.

 

This is all made up. People in charge of fleets or Death Stars, it doesn't matter. Palpatine and Vader control the empire. Tarkin is in control of the DS, fine. But once Vader steps on board, he is in charge. He is the apprentice to the Emperor. Or, perhaps, known to the galaxy, the right hand man. Emperor --> Vader --> Everyone else. Lucas didn't have the story completely fleshed out in ANH. If we are talking about what I see with my eyes in ANH, Tarkin is clearly in charge of Vader. But as the films continue, and the story evolves, Vader's role is clarified. Now if your response is strictly trying to reconcile this fact with in universe theories like people being is charge of certain weapon systems, fine, but in the context of film making, the story of SW wasn't fully realized in 1977.