Why did vader willingly turn luke over to the emperor if he knew about the rules of the sith

There are no Dark Jedi in the movies. That's strictly an EU concept.

 

It's simple,"I MUST obey my master."

If the Emporer told DV to roll around in jello and squawk like a chicken,he'd have to do it.

It was probably DV's knowledge of their rules that contributed to his willingness to kill his master because he knew that the Emporer's desire to take on Luke would also indicate his desire to discard Vader.So it wasn't all Vader being swayed by Luke back to the good side,it was also a feeling of betrayal after decades of loyal service and a sense of self preservation.

 

Why did vader willingly turn luke over to the emperor if he knew about the rules of the sith?

Because that whole rule of 2 crap wasn't written until Episode I...




D_M_S_L

 

Oh yeah,that to.A very stupid rule because if your #2 gets killed,where do you get a replacement who's as skilled and trained in the Darkside as your previous #2 unless you've been secretly training or grooming a replacement,at which point,there are kind of more than 2 and the #2 has every reason to 1)hate,distrust and disobey his master and 2)track down any replacements and kill them...which will displease his master.

Such a stupid addition to SW.

 

Two points.

1. Who says the apprentice has to be as skilled as the first.

2. You have just explained the contradiction of the Sith. The rule of two suppsoedly developed for two reasons, one the Sith were trying to remain in obscurity, and two it was a matter of practicality. There would always be deception and disloyalty among the master and apprentice, the other always trying to vy for power. As a result, there was only one of each. Eventually the apprentice would get the best of his master (or the master would die) and the apprentice moves up.. Naturally, he takes an apprentice as his servant.



Vader as the Emperor's loyal servant only goes so far. He already indicated a willingness to betray Palps in ESB, so taking Luke to Palps is not wholly out of misguided loyalty. There is a lot more going on.

 

Also, one of the big reasons for the rule of 2 was gone: The Jedi. The Sith no longer had anyone to hide from. They were in power. They were probably feeling very arrogant.

 

i dont think the rule of 2 had anything to do with the Jedi, or hiding from the Jedi- i think thats just the Rule of the Sith. Only two can there be. No more. No less.

 

It came about for two reasons:

1) To cut down on Sith killing each other off.
2) To hide from the Jedi easier.

Number 2 no longer applied.

 

Well,seems to me like the emporers going to want the best of the best for his #2 guy,does he just go down to the "Jedi with dark leanings that can be seduced in time"-Mart and pick up another kick-ass lightsaber master who had a rough childhood whenever he needs another.

IMO,the contradiction of the Sith is the term for it,in real life.Why should DV EVER do anything the Emporer says...out of Fear?in that case,why would the fear ever abate,and what would be so seductive about joining and continuing to serve a guy after you find out that he'll eventually want you dead...does a Sith Apprentice just sit there 24/7 thinking,"I know that you will gladly kill me at anytime and I know that you know that I'll gladly kill you at anytime but who knows when either of us will get up the nerve so until that day,I'll just continue to pretend to give you my undying and selfless devotion...until you have me killed...'cause it's just SO great to be in this position."

In my book,a stupid idea.I understand that it's meant to illustrate how evil they are,but there's a difference between Evil and Stupid.

A truly evil genius would either 1) not rely on any human beings,only robots or 2)amass powerful henchmen and treat them so well that they wouldn't ever even WANT to rebel...like certain mafia movies where the don and his right hand man have been together for so long,through so much crime and have never ratted eachother out so they know that,even in their culture of evil,they trust eachother c'cause they're "Goodfellas"
P.S.this was directed at JediSF,it just took me too long to write it.

 

A truly evil genius would either 1) not rely on any human beings,only robots

Well, that's the kind of approach the Trade Federation took...look where that got them

It's interesting, there is no definitive answer to this one...I prefer to think that Luke was a pawn for both Vader and Palpatine, with each hoping to gain his services against the other. I think Vader was truly surprised at Luke's appearence and power when they met up again in the walker connecting tunnel in ROTJ, and wasn't prepared for the effect seeing his son all 'grown up' and strong in the Force would have on him.

 

"I think Vader was truly surprised at Luke's appearence and power when they met up again in the walker connecting tunnel in ROTJ, and wasn't prepared for the effect seeing his son all 'grown up' and strong in the Force would have on him."

I totally agree with you on that point DamonD. You can tell that Vader is really struggling with the idea a facing his son.

D_M_S_L

 

WS,

You're ignoring the most important reasons that the Sith who choose to become (or stay ) Sith do so. POWER.

The Power of th Dark Side is something that they cannot bear to give up. And it breeds envy, jealousy, paranoia, and the unquenchable thirst for more power. So although there is alot going on in the mind of a Sith, they are not just sitting around wondering when their turn wil be, or when they will be cast aside. They are also possessed with overwhelming, thought numbing power. Their positions do not seem as ridiculous as they are when they experience the abilty to weild such raw power.

It isn't logical. But, neither is obsession.

 

You beat me to it JediSF...

 

---

There are no Dark Jedi in the movies. That's strictly an EU concept.[/b][hr][/blockquote]One supported directly by the films, though. In TPM, Qui-Gon twice mentions that Darth Maul possessed training in "the Jedi arts," which may or may *not* have had some tangible connection to the Sith themselves, according to the coucilmembers.

Either way, it still tracks.

 

Good point JediSF,also,I totally forgot,didn't Darth want Luke to join with him to take the Emporer's position?...that would've made DV the master,Luke the #2,they team up to kill the Emporer and PLUS,they have the added benefit of being Father and Son,so that would create a bond akin to my "Goodfellas" theory,Jedi are against emotional attachment,but the Darkside has no such qualms about it,so the deluded Vader thinks,(in keeping with his Dark-Lust for power)"I'll be the Dad(leader,lord of the Sith),with my son as my apprentice.
2 Sith that would've adhered to the rule,and kicked ass harder than any before them because of their emotional attachment.

Maybe the rule isn't as dumb as I'd thought.
I'd like to read some alternate SW fiction where Luke joins with Vader/Anakin to dethrone Palpatine and take over the galaxy.It'd really be cool if it ever came to Luke being confronted by Leia or Han.....Whoah.....K,nevermind.
But Luke is such a goody-goody PANSY,it would be cool to see him give himself over to darker desires,but I don't know if I could buy Mark Hammil in that role.But who knows,he did okay with the Joker and Cock-Knocker.

 

The think the Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight card from Decipher's CCG game (Death Star II set) puts it perfectly in the lore box:

Luke was desired by Palpatine as an apprentice, by Vader as a partner, and the Alliance as a savior.