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Why Did Yoda Hesitate?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by spasticewok, Oct 29, 2006.

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  1. spasticewok

    spasticewok Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 12, 2006
    In ROTJ Yoda hesitates to train Luke, saying that he is reckless. When Obi-Wan's spirit tells him that Luke is no more reckless than Obi-Wan was when Yoda trained him, Yoda replies that Luke is too old to begin the training. Obviously, Luke would be the same age as Leia, and Leia wasn't so cautious herself, making runs across the galaxy to deliver stolen Imperial information isn't my idea of a person who is cautious. SO what if Obi-Wan hadn't interfered with Yoda's thinking? What, did Yoda plan on waiting longer? Surely he knew his time was drawing to a close, if not for Obi-Wan, that could've been the end of the Jedi!!
     
  2. Sinnion

    Sinnion Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 24, 2006
    I think he was playing to luke, to try and make him feel less important than he really is. Kind of like, pushing down his ego so it doesnt get in the way later in his training, as it did Anakins.
     
  3. Axle-Starweilder

    Axle-Starweilder Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 6, 2005
    yeah, i'm pretty sure he'd have still trained luke. he just wanted to watch him squirm.
    and that totally happened in empire strikes back, dude.
     
  4. LordVader66

    LordVader66 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 30, 2005
    This is just another example of how the PT and OT don't fit perfectly.
     
  5. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    Yoda makes no promises in the PT as to what will be done with the twins beyond hiding them. If Yoda had thoughts on training them Obi Wan and Yoda discussed it in the three years between ANH and TESB. Yoda may have had second thoughts, he may never have had those thoughts to begin with. His comment seemed to be geard more toward wanting to see what Luke and Kenobi would say rather than say it in some ego smashing tone.
     
  6. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 18, 2001
    First off, that was in ESB, not ROTJ.

    Second, you are all over the place with that paragraph. I'm not sure what Leia's age or cautiousness has to do with Yoda hesitating about training Luke. :confused:
     
  7. Vortigern99

    Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 12, 2000
    I think spasticewok's question is nontheless valid. If Luke -- their new hope, their last (or next-to-last) hope for restoring the Jedi order -- was really "too old to begin the training", then what could possibly their next course of action? Leia should have been dismissed on the same grounds -- all the more appropriate, considering her lack of any training whatsoever.

    In general, I'm inclined to agree with the general consensus so far: Yoda was simply testing Luke for his reaction.
     
  8. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    Maybe Yoda was just considering the greater harm factor. Yes, Luke could save the galaxy and get Anakin to bring balance to the force. But they also didn't consider Anakin's greater harm as well as they should've during the PT. Luke is put in his fathers shoes because he could be just as powerful and be just as dangerous.
     
  9. Knight-8311

    Knight-8311 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Sep 18, 2006
    Yoda was just old and maybe he'd lost a little faith in the jedi during his exile and didnt feel like putting so much into luke because he didnt think luke could handle it.
     
  10. DarthButt

    DarthButt Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 11, 2003
    It took a Yoda thread for you to show up here, huh? :p
     
  11. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jun 18, 2006
    BINGO!!!!!

    Just like the line, "No, there is another." After watching the PT and knowing Kenobi was at the birth of Leia, what is a sexist now?
     
  12. Vortigern99

    Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 12, 2000
    As Vader'sLaMent has already pointed out, Yoda makes no promises in the PT as to what will be done with the twins beyond hiding them. I don't understand how Yoda in ESB contemplating not training Luke -- for very evident darkside reasons -- is an "example of how the PT and OT don't fit".
     
  13. LordVader66

    LordVader66 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 30, 2005
    It's scenes like this that make it necessary for the OT to be remade. Really, the scene should be CGI Yoda standing in his hut as Luke Skywalker arrives, and Yoda says "Been waiting for you, I have."
     
  14. OBIJUAN76

    OBIJUAN76 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 6, 2006

    I have always wondered the same thing. Luke and Leia are their last hope, why deny them the training? I guess we can just assume that it was all a test to see how far Yoda could push Luke. I believe Yoda and Ben always planned on using the two twins. Remember in ROTS "until the time is right, split up the two must be", or something like that? But then again, that is another confusion that I have between the OT and the PT, why did Yoda and Ben wait so long to train them for crying out loud if their plan was to always use them?!
     
  15. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 14, 2001
    to test him and maybe to rob him of any illusions. Teach him a little modesty. Much unlike his father. You know, the Chosen One, the (potentially) most powerful Jedi ever, the youngest Jedi Council member ever (and Master if he had been made one).
    "Teach you? Who do you think you are? I don't have to do anything! Okay, but maybe I will."

    and that's the only way I can link the PT to this scene. I don't see how anything else in the PT has anything to do with it. o_O
     
  16. Guy-from-Tatooine

    Guy-from-Tatooine Jedi Youngling

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    Oct 19, 2006
    Bad idea, IMHO. Best would have been to AVOID such inconsistencies from the beginning. I know the movies and stuff like that strikes me immediatelly. So should Lucas.
    But now the damage is done, I say: just leave it. The more you butcher, the more issues you get. Fix one, ruin two other... (Like the inserted Biggs scene. But they had to trim dialoge about Luke's father. Now we have the biggs scene in - and a screwed up R2 in the background. :( Great work Lucas!!! Or the inserted Jabba scene. Even after the second try, the new Jabba looks like Bantha-Poodoo - and nowhere close to I and VI. If it does not work - just leave it!!!)
    Nevertheless in this case - there seems to be an easy solution, and I don't mean a silly fanboy kind of thing, but really something real: Uncle Owen. Obviousley there have been discussions between Kenobi and Owen. They don't seem to be the best friends in IV. Stubborn Owen did not allow Luke beeing trained as a Yedi. Kenobi did not want to kidnap
    Luke - and now that Owen is dead, it's almost too late...
     
  17. spasticewok

    spasticewok Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 12, 2006
    Yes I am sorry, this did take place in ESB, I have lately been posting about ROTJ and got in the habit of typing ROTJ, I am sorry for that minor technical error, and I agree with Vortigern99 in that the question is still valid.
    I agree with the general opinion that it was a test of Luke's patience, but then again, I don't asked questions without having already formulated an opinion on the topic, I just normally leave my opinion out of the initial post so that there is no arguing and so I don't affect the opinion of others.
     
  18. X-Wing-Ace

    X-Wing-Ace Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jun 12, 2006
    Simple answer, he didn't want another Darth Vader running around. QED Next question?
     
  19. andkiich

    andkiich Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 19, 2005
    The whole thing was a test, from the crash landing to the part where he is openly telling Luke every excuse he can think of not to train him.

    It's much like the Shaolin monks used to do with new priests...make them wait outside, test their resolve. What if Yoda had said that and Luke threw a fit and said, "Fine! I'll train myself" and he makes plans to leave. There is a lot more of a dynamic going on here than what first meets the eye.
     
  20. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head

    Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Nov 18, 2004
    I just thought the whole communicating w/Obi-Wan was Yoda's way of letting Luke know (or letting Luke deduce on his own) that he'd found the Great Jedi Master unknowingly. Also showing him how ignorant & impatient he was being. I thought it was a real nice play on the "Good Cop, Bad Cop" cliche. Just my 2 cents.
     
  21. Thank_The_Maker

    Thank_The_Maker Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 15, 2006
    Look at all Yoda had gone through. I think he was also being cautious.
     
  22. X-Wing-Ace

    X-Wing-Ace Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jun 12, 2006
    Make of it as you will. I still say that he simply had big doubts about whether he wanted to risk training Luke after what happened to his father.
     
  23. Malikail

    Malikail Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 17, 2004
    why so we can have the absolute greatest puppetry in any film ever ruined and have a good scene replaced with a cheesy and poorly thought out line?

    that is a terrible idea you have there on all fronts imo, or a bit of a comical piece of sarcasm, i'm not sure which.
     
  24. Jedi Miester

    Jedi Miester Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Sep 27, 1999
    Training Luke or Leia was a plan from the end of EP III. There was NO WAY they weren't going to try to train Luke. The whole 'not wanting to train you' thing was a ploy, and a means of testing Luke's resolve and desire. I think Yoda may have had some feelings like this, and in his grumpy old-age, played on his own feelings to help the act, but all in all, this was planned for 20 years.

    As far as the 'too old' thing. I believe the Jedi knew that many of their dogmatic restrictions and rules about cutting ties with family, etc.. were a failure... I think they wanted Luke to grow to what ever age he needed to until he was ready.... a purposefull departure from the old ways. Knowing this, the 'too old.. to old to begin the training' quote was almost a joke... tounge and cheek.
     
  25. Lightsabre

    Lightsabre Fan Force Founder star 4 VIP

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    Nov 12, 1999
    Glad to see fellow Class of '99ers in here. Building on what Miester said, Yoda was shaping the context of the situation. This wasn't a martial arts tournament, the fate of the galaxy and the light side of the force rest on Luke's shoulders. Yoda wasn't taking the situation lightly and didn't want Luke too either. However, I'm not so sure Yoda would have trained Luke if he punked out.
     
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