PT Why didn't Anakin and Obi-Wan use the Force to get rid of the Buzz droids?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Max Nocerino, Jan 25, 2014.

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  1. Max Nocerino Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2013
    star 1
    I mean come on. Even the Clone Wars creators know this, and had Anakin use a force windshield wiper to get rid of them in the first episode of the final arc. Obviously it was done in the movie to increase tension but is their an in-universe reason?
  2. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
  3. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    They were probably preoccupied with piloting the ships; they were in the middle of a battle after all.

    As good as the shows are, you can never take anything besides the movies as gospel. If it were the 2D animated series, all it would take is little more than a thought to destroy the whole Separatist fleet.
    Kenneth Morgan likes this.
  4. Marco1907 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Yeah i thought that too.

    Two option come to conclusion ;

    • Force usage is problem while they are in high speed
    • Buzz droids has magnetic legs
    Kenneth Morgan likes this.
  5. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I am not sure there is an instance where Obi Wan or any other Jedi copies the feat Vader did with Ozzel. In other words, there was an obstacle between the buzz droid and Obi Wan. Yet Vader was able to affect Ozzel with ship hulss and vast distance between them.
  6. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    ^Good point. An earlier draft of Episode I hints that that is exclusively a dark side ability, as Sidious chokes Daultay Dofine from Coruscant.
  7. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    This is a specific instance of a wider issue I've always wondered about. Whenever a show/movie/book has characters that use super powers - it should be imperative to make sure that limits are put into place on said powers. Otherwise, it kind of causes a story-telling mess. I'll ignore the fact that video games make using the Force look as simple as blinking...

    In terms of the Force - the telekinesis aspect has always kind of baffled me. There are many instances in the OT/PT that telekinesis could have been beneficial. This topic points out one specific instance. Obi-Wan could have tossed those droids off using the Force. I guess one could argue that it take a degree of concentration to utilize that specific aspect of the Force and he would have crashed if he wasn't flying the ship. But I don't buy that. He could have stopped the fighter (cut engines) and tossed those droids off (after all...they were about to rip open his canopy and expose him to space). In AOTC, Obi-Wan opens a door with a wave of his hand. It couldn't have taken that much concentration to toss off those Buzz droids.

    Same thing in lightsaber duels. Before anyone says "You think it's wise to lift up your hand and point it at someone swinging a lightsaber at you?" :)P) there are many instances in duels where the combatants either dramatically stand apart and stare each other down or one combatant is hiding from the other. In those instances, one can easily toss the other person in a conveniently located abyss without engaging in some duel.

    Or how about Obi-Wan jumping out the window in AOTC to grab that assassin droid. Why not just use the Force to latch onto it and drag it into the room? I guess one could dismiss that as it being an example of how impulse and impatient Obi-Wan was. Something Anakin supposedly picked up from him. Meh.

    I've never really understood what is up with the telekinesis (besides the obvious - "It would ruin the story...").
  8. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I think telekinesis is in fact a drama killer. It's use can end a story that quick. As a suspesnion of disbelief i would say it does take effort. Yoda during his battle with Palpatine burns out. He uses it all up and has no more. So Jedi don't just go using up the more physical force abilties or else they can find themselves drained.

    Also in the case of Obi Wan jumping through the window he wants to find out where that droid is going to go and find the bad guy that sent it.
    Bob Octa likes this.
  9. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    You're right about it being a drama killer. I do love how varied the Force powers are, but I think towards the end they kind of got out of control. I was surprised that some fans even disliked that the powers went beyond what ANH showed. Just mental manipulation and mastery of reflexes (Luke training with the sphere). I didn't even realize some number of fans didn't like the addition of more powers in ESB.

    But the problem is about what you said is you see people using the Force over and over and not getting tired (unless the plot calls for it). If it was consistent and even minor uses of the Force physically drained people - then it'd make total sense to avoid just running around using this power or that one.

    That may be the case. I mean - you're probably right that is why they did it. I just don't like it because it makes Obi-Wan "USE THE FORCE. THINK!" Kenobi look dumb. Did he really think that the owner of that droid would just let it fly back to him/her with Obi-Wan dangling from it? Plus, that bounty hunter ended up doing the obvious thing. Destroy the droid while he was on it so he'd fall to his death.
  10. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Well some powers use more energy than others. I would say all the sense and minor telekinesis at work during a balls to the wall lightsaber duel take less effort than lifting an X-wing.

    Telekinesis in SW does seem to require an anchor, you need to be on the ground or whatever. It's like a lever. You might be able to control or slow a fall but you can't fly.
  11. Big_Benn_Klingon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2013
    star 1
    Obi does actually use some kind of telekinetic power in ANH when he attempts to distract the stormtoopers during the scene where he is attempting to turn off the DS tractor beam.


    Ya they could have used the force on the buzz droids, but didn't for drama's sake. To even further the case, most descriptions of the Jedi-starfighter explain that it was even designed to allow for the best possible exploitation of force powers by the pilot
  12. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Perhaps the buzz droids have a way of gripping the surface of the ship? I mean, those things are traveling at high speed and, from what I remember, the battle takes place in the upper atmosphere. It's likely they have a gripping mechanism. Maybe magnetic or they physically spear into the plating. After all, they have to be strong enough to pull the plates apart. Hence why Anakin had to physically crush them or R2 had to aim and fire at the center eye.

    And remember -- as soon as R2 hit it in the eye, it slid right off Anakin's ship. So I would imagine it had a pretty strong hold on the surface before then that would have made Force pushing ineffectual or risked damaging the ship along with the buzz droid.
  13. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Hah - sadly? The EU says Jedi can do a form of flight. Don't even get me started on that. But fair point on one power having a different effect vs. another power.

    I always assumed that Obi-Wan had mind tricked those Stormtroopers into believing they heard something. I could be wrong, though.

    Haha that just makes it worse then. :p But yes - you hit the nail on the head. Drama's sake.
  14. Big_Benn_Klingon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2013
    star 1
    Perhaps, but his force-like gesture doesn't seem to be directed specifically at the stormtroopers. I suspect what the force actually did was pretty vague in GL's mind while making ANH. But he probably had some rough idea that the force had some element of telekinesis even if it wasn't clearly defined in his own mind.



    FTR, Here's the scene (couldn't figure out how to make it appear at the bottom of my comment) from Clone Wars season 5, ep 17. Anakin get's in the identical situation in the same ship type (possibly even the same actual ship) and clearly used the force to get rid of several buzz droids. Altho it appears he cant use the force on what he cant see (under the ship).
    Last edited by Big_Benn_Klingon, Jan 25, 2014
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The two of them are concentrating on not being shot down, which is why they can't spare a moment to clear off the Interceptors.


    It's not a dark side ability, but rather an unnecessary usage of the Force. Anakin started doing it during the Clone Wars.

    The script says that Obi-wan makes a gesture and they think that they hear something. So it is confirmed that it was a form of telekinesis. I think Lucas did have it in mind, but probably didn't go far with it due to time and budget. What was doable, like this, was done. By the time TESB came along, it was more than possible to get things done.
  16. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    GL has stated that he no longer distinguishes TCW from the movies, so I'd say that the show is actually very much a part of the Saga storyline.
    ...which makes it seem as though Anakin does something that Obi-Wan is unable to do. He is, after all, established as being ahead of Obi-Wan because of his great talent and using the Force that way might actually be a very impressive feat (notice that Anakin brags about being the wrong Jedi for the droids to mess with while he's pushing them away).
    So why does Anakin not use the Force on the buzz droids in ROTS? Well, those on Obi-Wan's ship are likely too far away and the same could be true for the one that climbs onto his own ship, once it has reached Artoo (which it does quickly). Or, he just likes to give Artoo a chance to shine.





    The Force does have limits
    /LM
  17. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    Wait, what? If they think they hear something, that makes it a mind trick, not TK.
    only one kenobi likes this.
  18. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Yeeeaaaah. That's what I was thinking too. Doesn't sound like telekinesis to me.

    But I am not disputing that maybe Lucas did have it in his head that, that application of the Force did exist as far back as ANH. He just didn't show case it until the later movies.
  19. OBI-TUE_KENOBI Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2009
    star 1
    I don't have anything to add to the original topic but I was watching Episode III yesterday and asked myself that then smiled from seeing this topic. :)
    only one kenobi likes this.
  20. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    I just thought that they were too busy trying to pilot their ships to use the Force to get rid of the buzz droids.
  21. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    I never understood the Force complaints as its only as powerful as the person using it... Some guys can fly, others can't. The good guys could fly, or at least glide because their power was outward.. You would never see a Sith do that as their Force abilities is all about POWER... lighthing, choking people... ALL consuming- inward whereas the Jedis were outward, gliding etc, except for Yoda who tapped into the Darkness when he fought Palpatine. Why didn't Palpatine use the Force to fly out of the Core Reactor- he couldn't. ALL of his power was shooting the lightneing.
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    It does, but when you watch the scene, you hear the same type of noise that indicates that Obi-was was using telekinetic trick and not mind manipulation. It's the same type of noise that's used when Vader chokes someone.
    Big_Benn_Klingon likes this.
  23. darth_mccartney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2008
    star 1

    I always figured Obi Wan had made something all over in the room/corridor and thats what caught the troopers attention
  24. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    I think I have to go with telekenesis being a drama-killer.

    Here's an even stranger instance when a Force-user doesn't use telekenisis when it seems like he should: Obi-Wan vs. Grievous. Yes, Obi does use it once, but why does he stop there? He should just keep tossing Grievous all around until he's a bashed up pile of scrap metal since Grievous is completely unable to block it. Since Jedi don't have as many offensive weapons as Sith do (like Force lightning), this approach would be especially effective after Obi loses his lightsaber and they fight in hand to hand combat. All he had to do was Force push or Force throw (like Dooku does to Obi in ROTS) over the ledge.

    In the case of the buzz droids, I think the best in-universe explanation combines multiple factors:

    A) Force telekenesis seems to take a moment of concentration, especially in combat -- in TESB Vader has to pause when he starts tossing stuff at Luke, in ROTS Obi pauses before he sends Grievous flying, in ATOC Yoda pauses and has to contrentrate when he stops the column falling towards Obi and Ani. The only character who seems to be able to use telekenesis without pausing to think is Palpatine. In ROTS, he's just chucking those Senate pods at Yoda left and right. (Yoda has to pause and think when he finally sends one back in Palps direction.) So, since Obi is concentrating on flying, he can't find the opportunity to pause and concentrate so that he can use telekenesis to toss the buzz droids off.

    B) The buzz droids may be magnetically attached to the hull of the ship.

    C) There are a lot of buzz droids and they are skittering around pretty fast, and since Obi probably could have only flicked one buzz droid off at time using telekenesis and they were hard to target and he could have crashed his ship if allowed to himself to get distracted flicking them off one by one, Obi figured it was too dangerous to use telekenesis, especially since Anakin was there trying to use other means to help him. If Anakin hadn't helped him, Obi may have flown to a less congested area and may have started to try to start flicking the buzz droids off using telekenesis. Whether he could have gotten them all off before they did him in is another question. Also, he may have found that this technique wouldn't have worked or not worked well b/c the droids were magnetically attached.
  25. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    A tension building moment? The only tension it produced was me yelling at the screen "JUST USE THE FORCE!!!!" OH! Just thought of this: I would have been an AWESOME to have Obi-Wan say to Anakin "Use the force, Anakin." Like ghost obi says to Luke.

    Back to the point. Obi-Wan being too distracted? I'll buy that. But Anakin is literally just watching R2 fight the buzz droid if I remember correctly (it's been a long time since I watched it - least favorite movie of the saga, somehow). I don't think there can be a reasonable in-universe reason for it.
    Sarge likes this.
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