PT Why didn't Anakin bring Padme back from the dead?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Twi'lekPrince, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. Twi'lekPrince Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Before Padme died, Anakin had a vision of her death. Darth Sidious told his new apprentice that he learned how to reanimate the dead (which he learned from Darth Plagueis). Even though Sidious told Anakin that he (Anakin) killed Padme, why did he never reanimate Padme so he could bring her back to life?
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Sidious was stretching the truth somewhat. It may be that the person has to have whatever the trick was, done within moments of their death.

    In addition- Sidious doesn't actually want Padme around- she appeals to all that is best in Anakin. He wants a bitter, malevolent Anakin to be his armoured fist for subduing the galaxy.
  3. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    Can't trust those shifty Sith Lords.
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  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, we get to see Sidious's thoughts on Padme:

    Not for the first time Sidious wondered what might have happened had Anakin not killed Padme on Mustafar. For all she loved him, she never would have forgiven Anakin's action at the Jedi Temple. In fact, that was one of the reasons Sidious had sent him there. Clone troopers could have dealt with the instructors and younglings but Anakin's presence was essential in order to cement his allegiance to the Sith, and more importantly, to seal Padme's fate. Even if she had survived Mustafar, their love would have died- Padme might even have lost the will to live- and their child would have become Sidious's and Vader's to raise.
  5. Twi'lekPrince Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    That's actually really interesting. And she most likely did lose the will to live. At least i recall hearing Obi Wan saying something like that in ROTS.
    Last edited by Twi'lekPrince, Mar 25, 2013
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yes - "keep the ones he cared about from dying" does not necessarily translate to "reanimate the long dead".
  7. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The droid medics said it, at least.

    Palpatine believed she'd died on Mustafar- but it turns out he was wrong- though his speculation that "If Padme didn't die on Mustafar she might have lost the will to live anyway" is correct, if those droids are.
  8. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    We don't even know if it's a real power. Anakin's deal with Palpatine was a deal with the devil, and the devil lies.

    He tells Anakin in the opera house that not only did Plagueis learn these secrets, but that he taught his apperentice everything he knew

    Later, when it comes time to pay up, Palpatine tells Anakin that the secret to save one from death is one that only Plagueis knew, but that together they can learn it if Anakin becomes strong enough, in other words, you have to kill all the people I want you to kill.

    Palpatine lied to him. It could be lies mixed with truth, we don't know as far as the movies are concerned. The EU tells us more, but that's the EU.

    It's possible that the power never even existed in the first place.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    We do in the EU, where it is real. Obi-Wan lies too, is Obi-Wan the devil? Palpatine is only assumed to be lying, because he's Palpatine, but he is also capable of using the truth.

    Suddenly "we don't even know" has become certainty. The EU shows how nothing he said is necessarily a lie, but that's the EU, so we can pretend that the assumption that he must have been lying was never debunked.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 25, 2013
  10. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Palpatine is the archetype of evil, for all intents and purposes he is the devil. I really shouldn't have to explain that.


    He was definitely lying, because either the knowledge was passed on to him or it was not. And in the movie, he gives us both answers.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 25, 2013
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  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    He never says the knowledge was not passed on to him. He says he did not achieve the power. You assume the power requires only knowledge to achieve.
  12. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    It's pretty obvious it was a bait and switch. He tempts Anakin with a promise he either can't or won't fulfill. And despite your protest, can't is just as real a possibility as won't. It may be a real power, it may not be. The movie is the movie. the EU is the EU.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 25, 2013
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  13. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    A similar question was brought up like this in a different thread. My response would be, the power to save people from death did exist; Palpatine wasn't just making up a story, which is a common misconception.

    In the EU, Plageuis used the power to ressurect somebody, and if resurrection is possible, then saving the life of a dying person who's still alive certainly is possible.

    Palpatine didn't ressurect Padme because if she lived, she could've redeemed Anakin. Also, because he didn't really care about saving her life in the first place-he just used her as leverage to turn Anakin.
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  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    There are hints in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, that "Saving someone from dying" is different from "cheating death" or "returning someone from death".

    It also suggests that the promise to Anakin was "an exaggeration necessary for Anakin's turn from what the Jedi called right thinking"

    This is on pages 140-141.
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  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I shouldn't have to explain why a character like Palpatine would also be able to accomplish his goals by using the truth.

    It's only obvious that that's how you choose to see it. In reality, if you pay attention to his dialogue, his emphasis that Anakin will be the one to achieve the power remains consistent throughout.

    Protest? My point was that it's not certain he was lying about any of it. Since you're now back to talking about possibilities rather than certainties, mission accomplished.

    That is true. That 2005 passage worked if we assumed "cheat death" meant essence transfer ( as certain other books have implied ). However, a later book by the same author makes clear that "cheat death" and "save [someone] from dying" in ROTS both referred to the same thing, the power of Plagueis ( a position which had already been taken by the ROTS novel ).
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 25, 2013
  16. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    He doesn't say achieve, he says that they must work together to "discover the secret" You don't have to discover a secret that you have already been taught . It's obvious. Palpatine is lying. We don't know which aspect is a lie, but there is a lie.

    He was either:

    never taught the secret
    He was taught the secret but will not admit that to Anakin or share that knowledge with him
    the secret never existed in the first place

    One of those statements is true.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 25, 2013
  17. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    Due to the Anakin-Faust similarities stated by George Lucas, let's compare Palpatine with Satan, for example. Many times in fiction, when people make deals with the devil, the Devil doesn't always keep his promise the way he originally said he would, he just lies so he could steal their souls. Palpatine lied so Anakin would do what he normally wouldn't, to make Anakin his apprentice.

    Yeah, to turn Anakin from a Sith to a Jedi, he had to make everything sound more convincing.

    To answer the OP's question, I'll use another Faust analogy. There were many ways to redeem Faust, the guy who made a pact with the Devil. That's true for Anakin too. If Padme lived, it's possible that she would've redeemed Anakin. Palpatine had to prevent that from happening, after all, he wanted Anakin as his apprentice.

    Bringing Padme back wouldn't help make Anakin more evil, it would make him for sentimental, knowing she was alive. His good side would be stronger. He might even turn against Palpatine to save her life, like he did with Luke in ROTJ.
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  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    "only one has achieved"

    Palpatine clearly knows the main idea behind the power; he talked about it.

    "Darth Plagueis was my Master. He taught me the key to his power," the shadow said, dryly matter-of-fact, "before I killed him."

    "That power only my Master truly achieved, but together we will find it."


    - ROTS novel
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 25, 2013
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  19. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    I think it's the second one - he was tought the secret but will not admit that to Anakin.

    If this is the case, the door is wide open for The Emperor Reborn.
  20. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    And then goes on to make the point about how the two can work together to "discover the secret". So,...........................
  21. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    Cheating death is a general term for immortality. Transfer essence is just another path to immortality, and it wasn't what Plageuis used.

    Plagueis didn't have transfer essence to live forever, he used midichlorians for that same effect. I'm not sure if Plagueis achieved immortality before Palpatine killed him, but when Palpatine told Anakin, "to cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret", he was referring to his Master's midichlorian powers. The EU goes into more detail about how that worked.

    The opera scene where Palpatine told Anakin about saving people from death, and when he told Anakin about "cheating death"; those are two different concepts.

    More than just raising Padme from the dead, it's implied that Palpatine knew how to make her immortal.
    Last edited by Klingon Padawan, Mar 25, 2013
  22. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Plagueis could bring back dead people, he did it many times to Venamis.
  23. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    Palpatine killed Plageuis before he learned his immortality secret. From ROTS onward, even through the OT, I think Palpatine was studying the darkside to learn his Plageuis's secret for immortality, but Anakin killed him before he could do that.

    So, Palpatine could only do transfer essence after ROTJ, but if he was smarter and he didn't kill Plageuis so soon, he might have learned it.

    He exaggerated his knowledge of immortality to Anakin to make it easier to turn Anakin to the darkside.
  24. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    That is not in the movie. You don't know that going by the movie. It comes down to whether or not you want to take the EU into account. I do not. You of course are free to.
  25. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    Plagueis definitely could've resurrected Padme, but Palpatine couldn't, even if he wanted to. He was foolish enough to kill Plagueis before he could learn Plagueis's powers. An EU novel (The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader), mentions that although Palpatine didn't even know how to save people from death, he still lied in order to convince Anakin to join him.

    Even if Palpatine could have resurrected Padme, she would be a threat to his rule as a rebel leader and a possible way for Vader to be turned to the lightside again.
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