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PT Why didn't Anakin bring Padme back from the dead?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Twi'lekPrince, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    "He" doesn't necessarily refer to Plagueis. It may refer to the apprentice, in which case all that is said is that the apprentice was taught everything he knew about being a Sith from the master. Which is true.
     
  2. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    And as I said earlier, as you watch Palpatine tell the story you can see him relishing the memory of killing his former master. Movies are a visual medium. I think that it is abundantly clear that Palpatine was the apprentice in question that murdered his master. We've covered this already. I don't agree with you about that interpretation. I just don't buy it. You can feel free to feel anyway you wish about it. We don't need to agree.
     
  3. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    This displays absolutely zero recognition of what I just said. I never disputed Palpatine was the apprentice of Plagueis. The issue is that the "he" in "everything he knew" can refer to either one.
     
  4. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    No it can't. The story tells us that Plagueis teaches his apprentice everything he knows, and then is murdered by that apprentice. That is the whole point of the tale.
     
  5. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Yes it can.

    Who "he" refers to is only your assumption. How would the apprentice have any way of knowing for certain that he had learned absolutely everything known to the master?
     
  6. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    The scene is clear. You can look at it however you want. You go on and believe there is some other "he" if you want, I don't buy it. I didn't the first time. I won't the next time you bring it up either.
     
  7. fenixbg

    fenixbg Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Nature of lie is clear-Anakin was in prophecy of destruction of Sith,prophecy was unclear,but Palpatin saw- Jedi Council believed in that.He wanted to destroy Jedi by their own "weapon"-"force anomaly" person-Anakin.Anakin lost his mother,he slaughtered sand people-after that,Anakin had fear of losing Padme.Keeping that secrets made Palaptin trustful-from Anakin's point of view.So-there was needed one thing to get Anakin-dark side had to have some unique power,that power Anakin need.He wanted to save Padme,so there it is-saving Padme's life power... :D

    But we must admit-Palaptine gambled so much... Anakin fell on dark side because of passion... Someone who have such passion don't have patience-by Sith code from KOTOR 1...

    There is irelevant power exist or not-Palpatin had it or not-relevant is only manipulation and reason...
     
  8. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    Let's put the cards on the table. Who do you suggest "he" refers to?
     
  9. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
  10. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    This? You're saying that he isn't talking about Plaguies? Is that it?

    If it's not Plagues teaching Palpatine, what is it?


    Why don't you just spell it all out here. Who taught who what, according to you?

    Tell us plainly what your theory is.
     
  11. fenixbg

    fenixbg Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2013
    We can't say for sure Palpatine told truth about death of Plaguies... He really can't be sure that Plagueis gave him all his knowledge...
    Sith game is deception...
     
  12. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    Well? Are we going to get an answer?

    Who taught who to what according to you?

    Specifically, give us your theory in specific terms. Who taught who to what?

    You said this earlier

    This doesn't make any sense. The tale of Plagueis is that Plagueis taught Palpatine (his apprentice) everything he knew, and was then murdered by Palpatine. I substitute apprentice here for Palpatine, since you concede that point in the quote.

    So then, at this point in the tale Palpatine (his apprentice) knows everything that Plagueis did. If there is a secret to saving people from dying, Palpatine posseses it. as stated above. Again, you don't argue that Palpatine is his apprentice

    If you disagree with this notion, tell us specifically why.

    Are you suggesting that Plagueis did not in fact pass on all he knew? That seems to be what you are saying, and if so we fundamentally do not agree. Clearly the point of the story was that the master gave all of his knowledge to his apprentice before he was betrayed and murdered. If you are suggesting that is not the case, there isn't much else to say. I reject that.
     
  13. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    And how would the apprentice be in a position to know for certain that he had obtained literally all of the master's knowledge? You never answered this, because there is no answer.

    Sidious knew that his own powers had increased tenfold over the decades, but he couldn't be certain he had learned all of Plagueis' secrets - "his sorcerer's ways", as the Sun Guards referred to them - including the ability to prevent beings from dying. He sometimes wondered: Was he a level behind? Two levels behind?

    What powers had Sith Lord Plagueis kept to himself?
     
  14. Original Oatmeal

    Original Oatmeal Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Vader got sucked into the power of the dark side. Plus, I am not sure if Sidious knew how to revive people or not.
     
  15. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    The answer is right in the script:

    PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

    ANAKIN: He could actually save people from death?

    PALPATINE: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

    PALPATINE: To cheat death is a power only one has achieved

    Palpatine never says he can bring people back from the dead. He says he can keep people from dying. But there's no evidence in the script that Palpatine or the Dark Side can bring anyone back once they are gone. That, I would presume, is why Padmé was not revived -- she could not be. Palpatine only (possibly) had the power to keep her from dying in the first place. Seeing as how neither of them were with her when she died, though, the point is moot.
     
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  16. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    This is completely irrelevant, because if there is some power Palpatine doesn't know about, he wouldn't be TELLING US A STORY ABOUT IT. A swing and a miss.

    And I'm not sure where that bolded quote you posted came from, some sort of EU or movie novelization I'm guessing. You already know I don't care about outside sources, I judge a movie by what's in the movie
     
  17. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013

    That is true, they never even mention any sort of resurrection power in the movie. The point in the movie was over the power to save someone from death.
     
  18. Ambervikings91

    Ambervikings91 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 1, 2012
    Yep, I don't know why everybody just believes what palpatine says at all, who knows if what he is saying is true or how true it is. His goal wasn't to tell anakin a story, his goal was ot manipulate.
     
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  19. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    Some of us realize that he is mixing lies with the truth to manipulate Anakin
     
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  20. fenixbg

    fenixbg Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 29, 2013
    This part:"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ...". We can say- ressurection is a way of creating life .... Also if we include TCW(I preffer to not ) Ahsoka is revived after death on Mortis... So,by the TCW, power exist,and that power can ressurect person...
    I already explained my point of view about Sidious manipulation....
     
  21. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    Add a little truth to make someone believe a lie. He was playing Anakin like a puppet.
     
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  22. fenixbg

    fenixbg Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 29, 2013
    There is enough truth,he was Palgueis apprentice, but I think Sidious is more based on Hitler and his sentence-Person easily fall on big lies than small ones...
    Yeah I think comparison with most dark person(I only try to be polite here,I think much much worse about him) in history would be acceptable for dark lord...
     
  23. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    The point was that he can't possibly know that he had learned everything his master knew. You might have missed that being the point due to my strategy of stating it outright several times.

    It's restoring life, not creating it. Creating life in this context means creating a new being.
     
  24. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013


    And there may be powers he was never taught, but since he's telling us the story, he knows about that one, so your point is meaningless in this context.


    I get your point, I don't agree with you. You can repeat it a thousand times, and I won't agree with it a thousand times.
     
  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Doesn't look like it.

    I never said he didn't. The issue is that the "he" in "everything he knew" can refer to either one.