PT Why didn't Anakin bring Padme back from the dead?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Twi'lekPrince, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    ^That's exactly what I was going to say. What's worse is after that scene, Vader completely shut down because the injuries he suffered has left damages to the neural impulses in his brain making him incapable of feeling anything (both physically and emotionally). That's why he's the ruthless, uncaring bastard that we see in the OT.
  2. Darth Ridiculis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2013
    star 1
    Yes, I think his Force tantrum shows his rage and guilt quite effectively enough and shows us that Vader is now utterly an instrument of the Dark Side.
  3. Cameronic Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Palpatine never knew the power of Resurrection. He murdered Plagueis before he even taught it to him. He lied to Anakin when he said he knew how, he even admitted it to him during the scene where he officially becomes Vader.

    "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I am sure we can discover the secrets..." - Darth Sidious during the Vader transformation scene
  4. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4

    If Anakin had used his brain at that point he would have noticed that change...
  5. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3

    Exactly. "Use my powers to save your wife from certain death" followed by 'Errr.. I actually don't have those powers but...y'know, I'm sure we can learn them' from aman who has clearly been lying to Anakin for...what, ten years or so, about who he is and what he's doing. And Anakin doesn't say 'What? No, no, no. This deals off' or nod, wait until Palpatine turns his back on him and thrust his lightsabre into his back.

    Where the storyline has to rest upon someone being that dense then.... it loses me. Forrest Gump would be asking questions there, but here we have an educated Jedi knight incapable of seeing through such an obvious ruse?
    Last edited by only one kenobi, Aug 9, 2013
  6. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4

    "I am a slow learner."-Anakin Skywalker

    That would explain why it took him 24 years to realize that PalpSidious is playing him for a fool.
    Last edited by PMT99, Aug 9, 2013
  7. Team Padme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    If Anakin somehow did bring Padme back from the dead, it would just be worse.
  8. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Technically, he never said Darth Plagueis was his master, at least not in ROTS.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yup- only in the novelization of RoTS does he say it.
  10. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    He didn't need to say it. Watch him relish in the memory of killing his master in that scene and it's clear.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Without the novel to confirm it- that's still speculation.
  12. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Movies are a visual medium, things that happen on screen are just as important as what is said. Even more so sometimes.

    It's not speculation, it's that way for a reason
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Aug 13, 2013
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    A lot of people thought that when he called it a Sith legend, he was speaking literally- of events that had become legend among the Sith, a long time before.

    Hence, they were surprised when novel-readers told them that Plagueis was Sidious's master.
  14. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Well, that's them. I'm not them. The scene could not have made it more clear IMO. It's probably the best scene of the PT, I love it.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Aug 13, 2013
  15. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4

    He implied it when he said, "My mentor taught me everything about the Force. Even the nature of the dark side". One can assume that PalpSidious is talking about Darth Plagueis.
  16. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Isn't this title misleading?
  17. Cynicalx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Because she is already dead, and cannot be brought back to life.
  18. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    It's still misleading. Why would Anakin bring Padme back from the dead, if he did not know how? He had assumed that Palpatine did.
    Last edited by DRush76, Aug 22, 2013
  19. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    I think it would have been funny if the following dialogue was added to the conversion scene:

    Palpatine: To cheat death is a power only 1 has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover its secret.
    Anakin: I pledge myself to...Wait, huh, you told me during Squid Lake: "Plagueis taught him everything he knows?" and Plaqueis was your master, right?
    Palpatine: Uh, yeah, why do you mention it?
    Anakin: Well, then why don't you know the secret to cheat death?
    Palpatine: Well, it's just like I said: "Plaguies taught him everything he knows."
    Anakin: Right, then you would know how to cheat death, right?
    Palpatine: No, what makes you say that?
    Anakin: You just said Plagueis taught you everything Plagueis knew, so why can't you cheat death!?
    Palpatine: Gosh, this may be a little uncomfortable. No, um, what I meant was Plaguies taught me everything I know. There were still tons of crap that he knew that I never knew, like this business of cheating death, for instance. I never could figure that one out. Plagueis was so damn smart, and I was actually a very bad student.
    Anakin: ...Oh, crap ...I think I just made a really bad decision.
    Pensivia likes this.
  20. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    This.
  21. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    Here's my take on the different points that keep popping up on this thread:

    1) Anakin is not an idiot. He doesn't totally trust the Jedi, and they are asking him to do things that they shouldn't. At the same time, Palpatine has always treated him like a son or a nephew. Palpatine tells Anakin to study both sides of the Force, and he makes a convincing case that only by understanding the Force from all perspectives can Anakin gain true wisdom. He also makes good arguments that make the Jedi and the Sith seem equivalent, and because Palpatine has seemed like a good man, Anakin doesn't think he's chosing between the good Jedi and the evil Sith. Instead, he thinks he's chosing between the neutral Jedi and the neutral Sith (each of whom don't get along), except that the Sith have an advantage in this case in that the Sith have powers that can save his wife (which does seem like a pretty nice thing to do) while the Jedi disapprove of using the Force in this manner. Anakin's only previous knowledge of the Sith has come from the Jedi, and since Palpatine's arguments and their own behavior have undermined his trust in the Jedi, there's no reason for him to think that the Sith are evil. This also explains why it would make sense for Anakin to believe that Palpatine would help save Padme's life. He doesn't think that they are pure evil, and even if he thought they were, he might still think that a Sith would be willing to do something to help Anakin to gain his allegiance.

    Anakin is not even dumb for staying on Palpatine's side after Palpatine says that only together can they discover the power to cheat death. He probably is pissed down deep that Palpatine implied that he could save Padme not just discover that power, but that doesn't mean he can turn on Palpatine now. Anakin has helped Palpatine kill a Jedi master, and he knows that he can't return to the Jedi after killing Mace. So, his only choice is to stick with Palpatine or go into exile. Plus, as Anakin says himself, he is not the Jedi he should be. He wants more power, and turning to the Sith or simply leaving the Jedi order offers him the possibility of ultimate power rather than remaining a Jedi, where, at best, he'll have a seat on the council. His change isn't just about saving Padme. He likes what leaving the Jedi Order seems offer, and that's why very soon, he's saying to Padme that he can overthrow Palpatine and make the galaxy the way he wants it to be.

    2) Palpatine manipulates Anakin big time, but there is only one occasion when Anakin can be certain that Palpatine is lying.

    Palpatine tells Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise, but he never reveals to Anakin that he was Plagueis's apprentice. So, when he tells Anakin that Plagueis taught his apprentice "everything he knew" before his apprentice killed him, Anakin does not know that Palpatine was the guy who did the killing. Anakin is only learning from Palpatine that the power to cheat death exists at this point. So, Anakin can't know this is a lie.

    Later, when Palpatine reveals that he is a Sith, Palpatine does not ever admit to knowing this power himself. He says: "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death." So, here, Palpatine never says that he has learned the power to cheat death. He only states that this is a dark side power. It may be a power Palpatine never mastered.

    Then, when Palpatine is allowing Mace to reflect the lightning back onto himself, Palpatine says to Anakin: "I have the power to save the one you love. You must choose." Yep, this here is an outright lie. I don't see how you can get around that fact. Being in such a super-charged situation, Anakin may not even remember Palpatine's exact wording, and Anakin may think afterwards, "Well, he must've been exaggerating things to prevent his death." But this is pretty clearly a lie. So later, in the same scene, when he says "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover its secret," Palpatine is pretty clearly taking a step back from what he said just an moment earlier, but this is the only instance of contradiction that I can see.

    3. It is definitely not clear from the film that Palpatine knows the power to cheat death, but even if he does know it, he may not be able to revive someone who is long dead and buried with bacteria and worms eating her up. Heck, Padme could've even been cremated.

    In the novel, it is not clear that Palpatine learns this power from Plagueis. He is never shown learning it. He seems shocked when Plagueis lets Venamis die and then revives him again and again. After that point in the novel, Plagueis have very little contact with each other, and Plagueis continues his work learning to trick immortality. I don't believe the novel ever indicates that Plagueis masters this power, and from their very little contact with each other during this time, it seems pretty clear that Palpatine wouldn't have learned his power even if Plagueis did master the ability to keep himself from dying. (When I say immortality here, I only mean the ability to live forever if his body isn't destroyed. I don't mean the ability to survive his body getting blown in to a million parts.)
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Both claims are consistent in a sense. If they have to work together to achieve it, each one requires the other. By this point Palpatine has already sold himself as Anakin's dark side instructor: learn to use the dark side through me and you will be able to save Padme. As such, he has the "power" to make the attainment of the ability happen by lending his support to Anakin, which is not the same as saying that he has the specific Force power itself.

    That answers any question of why Padme wasn't brought back between trilogies, but during the period when she's still alive it's not so relevant, since Anakin clearly intends to be present at her side at the time of her otherwise certain death ( though of course things did not turn out that way ).
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Aug 31, 2013
  23. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    Safe to say that Palpatine truly thought out every second of that week in advance.
    darth ladnar likes this.
  24. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    Yeah, I see what you're saying. When Palpatine was being hit with his own lightning, it would have seemed weird for him to say: "I know of the power to save the one you love, but I can't do it myself. I'll need your help with it, but we can probably do it together, you know with a lot of work ...So, anyhow, you must choose!":) If Palpatine means it the way you're interpreting it, then it would be pretty understandable for him to say what he did when getting fried. So, it could be said that considering the context it is understandable that Palpatine simplified the whole thing and said what he said.

    His words "can discover its secret" are a little problematic, but to use black magic as a comparison, if Palpatine is saying something like "I know the spell, but only we together can discover the secret of how to get the spell to actually work," then it seems to me that Palpatine can be thought to be telling the truth.

    I think it would be understandable for Anakin to be a little irked that Palpatine didn't tell him more in the scene when Palpatine said "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death." However, Palpatine could respond, "Well, Anakin, why the heck didn't you just ask some questions about it instead of pointing that lightsaber at me?"

    BTW, can you remember if I am remembering the "Darth Plagueis" novel correctly in my description of what we learn about what Plagueis knows and what Palpatine learns from him?
  25. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    didnt Darth Sidious say the guy learned to "stop someone from dyeing" not that he could bring them back?
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