why didnt anakin rescue shmi before?

I think Anakin is already resenting it. His slaughter of the Tuskens was quite devoid of what a Jedi is supposed to be. Especially when one has such a powerful weapon (LS).

All that restraint a Jedi must give up, blew fully out of proportion. He went very way below from what a Jedi should be an example of. Whatever it is, he's in conflict with the Jedi order and will continue to be, despite wanting to be a "Jedi".

 

openmind, that was pretty good.

I'm not ripping on the movie. That's just a story element that didn't jive for me, so I chose not to worry about it. It's interesting to read peoples' rationalizations.

I can't help but imagine Obi-Wan, Yoda or Padme being asked to sponsor a starving child on Tattooine. Their rationalization that if they fed one, they would have to feed them all would not reflect well on them.

 

I can't help but imagine Obi-Wan, Yoda or Padme being asked to sponsor a starving child on Tattooine. Their rationalization that if they fed one, they would have to feed them all would not reflect well on them.

Well, in our world, an organisation that lets people 'adopt' a child in another country, by sending money for its education etcetera doesn't operate with a single child. These organisations spread their activities over multiple communities, so there is more fairness in the way they operate. The reason they make you sponsor one child is because the aid-program suddenly gets a face (by sending you pictures and letters of the child) - for the sponsors, it becomes more personal than just sending a check to some organisation. The goal of the organisation though remains to aid whole groups of people, selected from regions that are suitable (no warlords, no corruption, etcetera).

If such an organisation explains its goal to Padme, I'm sure she would support it immediately (who knows she already does - her administration probably takes care for the percentage she invests in aidprograms). Regarding Yoda and Obi-Wan: the Jedi-Order is an aid-organisation on its own, guarding peace and justice in the Republic. As they don't have personal possessions, they probably rely on the billions and billions of Republic citizens to invest in aid-programs, like priests do on our planet. Besides, wouldn't it be strange for an aid-organisation in the GFFA, that probably knows of the rules & regulations of the Jedi regarding to personal feelings & possessions, and their busy schedule, to come to them for aid, if there are thousands and thousands of wealthy senators just around the corner that have nothing better to do than squabbling in floating pods, and who probably could use some propaganda that they're giving away money to charity?

 

"Because the Jedi don't force people to bow down to their wishes"

Funny, I seem to recall Qui-gon influencing a die roll, and directly threatening Watto about going to the Hutts. Your mileage may vary.

"If you free one slave, that's just a drop of water on a hot plate, and pretty hypocritical."

So Anakin should have been left behind for the greater good? ?

"ESB had something similar with Han forgetting for three years he had a price on his head."

I seem to recall Han being directly involved in the destruction of the Death Star. I think the Empire's "bounty" on him might be a bit higher than that of the Hutts, don'tcha think?

"I think her political life doesn't give her much time, even to see her own family"

Yet she goes to Naboo and visits her family during the most important time in her political career. Go figure.

"Along with her personality"

"If you want to erase something, it first has to be there, gezvader28 "

DAMN!!!

"To take revenge on her son and the whole galaxy, she decided to let herself be kidnapped (and eventually killed) by tusken raiders to make her son turn to the dark side."



"I doubt Republic law would allow it. Remember, Tatooine is not under Republic control, and therefore anything Padme or the Jedi would do there would be against Republic law and would cause an incident. A single American just can't go to Zaire and do whatever they want. The same principle applies to Tatooine.

Simple politics, a no-brainer really. Next?"

Funny....there was no uproar when Anakin was freed under these very same circumstances. I guess that reply is a no-brainer. Next?

 

I seem to recall Han being directly involved in the destruction of the Death Star. I think the Empire's "bounty" on him might be a bit higher than that of the Hutts, don'tcha think?

I'd rather not have this debate here again, but Han still had his debts with Jabba, as said in ROTJ. Plus, Han said himself after his bounty hunter encounter to Rieekan : "If I don't pay off Jabba the Hutt I'm a dead man" (ESB). The films never explain why he didn't pay off his debts after he got the reward in ANH.

So Anakin should have been left behind for the greater good?

QGJ isn't really representative of the ways of the Jedi Council, don't you think ?

 

han didnt pay jabba because there was no time, and besides... he had "other" things on his mind.

yet i remember han trying to leave to pay jabba in the begining of ESB, circunstances just didnt allow it.

anyway GL could have had the same plot without shmi on tatooine.

lets imagine:

1)padmé returns and frees shmi
2)shmi goes to courascant to live
3)shmi is hed hostage in a hostage situation or dies in a terrorist atack by the separatists
4)anakin finds cell responsible and slays them and their families.

i think it would take longer but it would make more sence.

 

han didnt pay jabba because there was no time, and besides... he had "other" things on his mind.

Well, he had time for a little celebration - I'm sure they would understand if he first got rid of the price on his head. Flying to Tatooine just to pay off Jabba could be executed in less than a day. It takes less than a day to get from Coruscant (center) to Tatooine (furthest from center), as Darth Maul has proven.

If Han wanted to help his friends as long as possible, getting a deathmark off your head is a pretty good investment. He can be no use to the rebellion if he's dead.

 

1)padmé returns and frees shmi
2)shmi goes to courascant to live
3)shmi is hed hostage in a hostage situation or dies in a terrorist atack by the separatists
4)anakin finds cell responsible and slays them and their families.

Well, in the end, SW is just a film. I can't remember films where a slave's freedom is bought from a slave-owner who gets financially better out of the transaction. I'm pretty sure in our world anti-slavery organisations make it a principle NOT to pay the slave-owners, but decide to put diplomatic pressure on the local government, and assist the persons that are freed (by military operations e.g.) or have escaped so they don't get enslaved again.

 

did you noticed that leia was busttin his b... every time he tried to leave to pay jabba??

"look around, these ppl need you"

they wouldnt just let him go, not even for a day.

a think leia was worried that han would meet a nice twilleck and never return. LOL

 

they wouldnt just let him go, not even for a day.

Leia could have said all she wanted, it was up to Han to decide. When he wanted to leave, he was allowed to leave - Leia was only following behind for a goodbye kiss.

The "still unpaid debt though he had the money" is a little story-element that didn't get proper explanation. It's not something that stands in the way of enjoying the films, but it shows how you have to accept certain situation so the story continues to flow.

 

This is going to far, I'll try to answer to all this:

Leia_love_slave: I 've already argue about ani and the jedi, now for padme: Remember she nearly forgot ani after ep1, she had to deal with the trade federation after the invasion...I seriously think that she hadn't the time and most of all she didn't have it in mind, that's not a plot problem....it has nothing to do with laws anyway....
As for Han IMO, no plot hole: after the battle of yavin, he hides with the rebels, and when he decided to finally leave hoth to pay jabba the battle of hoth happened....

"I think her political life doesn't give her much time, even to see her own family"

Yet she goes to Naboo and visits her family during the most important time in her political career. Go figure."

No I don't agree: she visits because, as she was hiding on naboo in the lake retreat, it permits her to also come back home, even if it's a critical time for the republic, she anyway has to stay on naboo, out of politic.....


I still think the movies are well done...

 

no one is saying that the movies arent well done.
STARWARS RULEZ.
the think is GL should have tried to make a diferent plot, i see no reason for not freeing shmi.
certanly it wouldn´t take more then 5 minutes for padmé to summon someone and give the order to go free shmi.
the jedi freed anakin, they had no problem with that, and they knew of annies feelings towards his mother, freeing her wouldnt have given him some peace?
u see? major plot hole.
dont get me wrong...i love AOTC, its one of my favorite movies, along with DONNIE DARKO and NINJA SCROLL

 

Leia_love_slave: I 've already argue about ani and the jedi, now for padme: Remember she nearly forgot ani after ep1, she had to deal with the trade federation after the invasion...I seriously think that she hadn't the time and most of all she didn't have it in mind, that's not a plot problem....it has nothing to do with laws anyway....
As for Han IMO, no plot hole: after the battle of yavin, he hides with the rebels, and when he decided to finally leave hoth to pay jabba the battle of hoth happened....

Well, I don't have a problem with both situations, as I'm enjoying what are ultimately films. My argument is just that you can poke holes in certain situations if you really want to. As opinions differ, some things are not as easily accepted as others: "did Padme instantly forget about Schmi?"/"did Han instantly forget the seriousness of his debt-problem?" - it are questions that will never get a definite answer on this board (as the films don't provide conclusive evidence), only in our heads.

 

yes but I find it stupid to point plot holes where there are no, when this is just a moment that can be interpreted in different ways some people like to point "plot holes"....


"the think is GL should have tried to make a diferent plot, i see no reason for not freeing shmi.
certanly it wouldn´t take more then 5 minutes for padmé to summon someone and give the order to go free shmi."

I don't agree: the tatooine part of the film is one of the best and it's very important that it happens in that way IMO (at least to set up owen beru). And I already argue about padme, it shows that she had not that in mind, you can't call it a "Major plot hole" anyway, as for the jedi position, it's more logical if you think 2 minutes....

anyway I like the way it's done so all this doesn't really matters to me

 

yes but I find it stupid to point plot holes where there are no, when this is just a moment that can be interpreted in different ways some people like to point "plot holes"....

I've made several pleas to the admin to change the AOTC-forum into the 'Plot Hole Forum', so visitors know what topics to expect, but alas ...

 

I have a good explanation why nobody saved Shmi sooner. Because the Jedi Council are a bunch of idiots. Everything they do is stupid (well alot anyway). Thats the whole plot. Thats why we will like Vader when we watch 1-6. Thats why ObiWan and Yoda have to atone for their mistakes and the mistakes of the Council to save the mess they all created through their stupidity.

The Jedi are also too detached in the PT. Underneath their compassion, they are really a bit arrogant and don't want to do anything that is attached. Then when Luke comes to be a Jedi, he shows that you can follow your heart and still be good. The Jedi in the PT are an example of an unhealthy extreme, which is part of the reason the force needs to be balanced. Luke is the first Jedi that walks "the middle path" accepting that good and evil, passion and detachment, can be balanced within one person, in harmony.

Besides, the Jedi Council think Anakin may be the chosen one, so they don't want his mom free to distract him. They fear he's attached to her, and they want him for their cause. I think they're happy to think that she's aok right where she is, out of their hair.

 

I agree with your points, BenduHopkins, though calling the Jedi a bunch of idiots is a bit too blunt for my taste . Anyway, what's your explanation for Padme not saving Schmi?

 

bendul-hopkins is a very smart person, kuddos to you.
i think padmé didnt save shmi because she is a heartless woman, she has no feelings at all. thats why she acts like annies feelings are nothing... maybe she´s been burned in the past...

yes i agree the jedi are stupid and i lean more to the dark side, if people didnt racionalized so much and just gave in to their feelings i think the world would be a better place.

just forget the rules and do what your heart tells you. if the jedi did this, they would have freed the slaves and fought many other unknown injustices, just by putting politics asside.

 

"I'd rather not have this debate here again, but Han still had his debts with Jabba, as said in ROTJ. Plus, Han said himself after his bounty hunter encounter to Rieekan : "If I don't pay off Jabba the Hutt I'm a dead man" (ESB). The films never explain why he didn't pay off his debts after he got the reward in ANH."

? I never said this wasn't the case. The point that you are missing is, while the Hutts may hire bounty hunters to follow Han, they pretty much stay on Tatooine. The Empire controls the space around the planets. Han can't just go planet-hopping whenever he feels like it anymore, because the Millenium Falcon is known by sight as the ship that almost took out Vader. You did notice what Vader was willing to risk to go after Han in ESB, right?

Han is going to stick with the safety of the rebels, until he thinks it's safe to travel to Tatooine. Does that make sense?

"So Anakin should have been left behind for the greater good?"

"QGJ isn't really representative of the ways of the Jedi Council, don't you think ?"

That doesn't quite answer my question. Are you saying that Qui-gon's actions condone slavery, or are "hypocritical".

"I'm pretty sure in our world anti-slavery organisations make it a principle NOT to pay the slave-owners, but decide to put diplomatic pressure on the local government, and assist the persons that are freed (by military operations e.g.) or have escaped so they don't get enslaved again".

I guess that answers my question.

"No I don't agree: she visits because, as she was hiding on naboo in the lake retreat, it permits her to also come back home, even if it's a critical time for the republic, she anyway has to stay on naboo, out of politic.."

The point being - it was possible. Name me one politician in our political system who works 24/7, and cannot ever visit his/her family for 10 years. (In our case, eight - term limits )

See. That's a ridiculous assertion to make.

"Besides, the Jedi Council think Anakin may be the chosen one, so they don't want his mom free to distract him. They fear he's attached to her, and they want him for their cause. I think they're happy to think that she's aok right where she is, out of their hair."

Apparently, you are arguing that the Jedi believed keeping Shmi a slave would be less of a distraction. Call me silly, but I would think that knowing Shmi was no longer a slave would be less of a distraction, but that's just me.

"Because the Jedi Council are a bunch of idiots. Everything they do is stupid (well alot anyway). Thats the whole plot."

I would agree more with this rather than the contrived "It's against Republic law/it'll create an "incident" reasoning." If this were truly the case, Yoda would have made Qui-gon return Anakin for a refund.

"thats why she acts like annies feelings are nothing... maybe she´s been burned in the past..."

Are you saying she's already learned her lesson about trying to free slaves?

 

That didn't stop them from freeing Anakin.

Qui-gon not Padme freed Anakin. Anakin not Padme won his own freedom.

She doesn't need any power on Tatooine. Just money.

Oh yes she does. That's not her planet.

A minor problem for the Queen of a PLANET. They could easily convert something of value to local currency.

So you are going to take money from the whole planet to free one person? ? On top of that it does not work that way.

The Queen of Naboo would have more than enough resources to make Watto rich, if that's what it took.

Those are not her richs. Those are not her's to use when ever she feels like it.

Why didn't they react this way to Anakin being freed?

Ok let's stop and think about this one for a minute. Padme did not free Anakin know wait for it....QUI-GON FREED ANAKIN. The senate does not even know that Qui-gon did this.

They would know that Padme did though. Heck the senate does not even know that Jedi were sent to Naboo.

 

Han is going to stick with the safety of the rebels, until he thinks it's safe to travel to Tatooine. Does that make sense?

That's a possible explanation, but he did go to Ord Mandrell (sp?) before, and he was going to leave for Tatooine before the Empire hit Hoth, so I don't think he stayed grounded all of the time. Besides, wouldn't there be another ship he could loan of the Rebellion for a day?

Apparently, you are arguing that the Jedi believed keeping Shmi a slave would be less of a distraction. Call me silly, but I would think that knowing Shmi was no longer a slave would be less of a distraction, but that's just me.

The thing is, for Anakin to be a good Jedi according to their (flawed) rules, he shouldn't be distracted at all. As padawans were trained from a very young age, there never was the problem of a padawan being distracted by his family-situation. Imo, the Council was so fixed on their preset rules, they didn't want to bend them for this special case of an older padawan.

If this were truly the case, Yoda would have made Qui-gon return Anakin for a refund.



Wattoo: "No slave is worth two podracers, not by a long shot."
Qui-Gon: "Just the yellow one then."

 

Padme didn't save Anakin's mother because she was probably doing politics too much. She also had some recovery to do for her people after the TF war. Apparently there were a lot of starving, dying people for a while, and maybe she focused on rebuilding.

She didn't save Shmi because of the same reason that a US politician wouldn't save a single slave from a 3rd world country.

She probably knows that Jedi don't see their mommies, so wasn't worried about little Annie. Its sort of the status quo. Besides, when she was on Tatooine, it looked like Shmi's life was alright. She had her own house, at least. Not that she condoned slavery, but she didn't exactly see any peril in the situation.

 

"if people didnt racionalized so much and just gave in to their feelings i think the world would be a better place.

just forget the rules and do what your heart tells you."
It's not really the topic but still, beware of what you say, it's a humanity problem today: even if we mustn't be rigid as the jedi in the PT, limits and rules are A MUST, we are not all powerful (that's ani's problem, I like when george lucas adds little psychanalysis references...), that's the balance to find...I had to say it.

Besides, I agree with Benduhopkins, whereas I'm tired of the extrem point of vue that I read: when I said she didn't had the time to visit her family, it was of course not completely the case (she doesn't work 24/7!!I didn't say that), it was an image....

 

"yes but I find it stupid to point plot holes where there are no, when this is just a moment that can be interpreted in different ways some people like to point "plot holes"...."


It wasn't my intention to rip on the movie or to scream 'PLOTHOLE!' I like the movie very much.

The bottom line is, it's a stretch for the writer to explain why Anakin and his mother are pulled apart and kept apart for ten years. Lucas doesn't quite explain why everyone who Shmi HELPED was content to NOT HELP HER.

It doesn't ruin the movie for me, but some of the explanations to try defend a 'sticky' point in the writing don't make much sense.

anidanami: Qui-gon not Padme freed Anakin.

I don't see your point. Padme benefited. Are you saying Padme shouldn't feel any gratitude to Shmi or Anakin?

Anakin not Padme won his own freedom.

Actually, Qui-Gon manipulated Watto and won a bet.

She doesn't need any power on Tatooine. Just money.

Oh yes she does. That's not her planet.

A minor problem for the Queen of a PLANET. They could easily convert something of value to local currency.

So you are going to take money from the whole planet to free one person? On top of that it does not work that way.

The Queen of Naboo would have more than enough resources to make Watto rich, if that's what it took.

Those are not her richs. Those are not her's to use when ever she feels like it.

Why didn't they react this way to Anakin being freed?

Ok let's stop and think about this one for a minute. Padme did not free Anakin know wait for it....QUI-GON FREED ANAKIN. The senate does not even know that Qui-gon did this.

They would know that Padme did though. Heck the senate does not even know that Jedi were sent to Naboo.

I think YOU should stop and think for a minute.

Don't YOU think that the government of Naboo would be GRATEFUL to Anakin for helping return their Queen to them...

...AND for WINNING the 'Battle of Naboo' by destroying the Trade Federation ship that controlled the droid army?

This kid SAVED their planet. Do you really think the government of Naboo wouldn't being willing to pay to free his mother?

You told me to think about it and now that I have, IT MAKES EVEN LESS SENSE.

 

Padme didn't save Anakin's mother because she was probably doing politics too much. She also had some recovery to do for her people after the TF war.

And Padme is in a position to do all that because of the help Shmi gave her - she welcomes them into her house, gives them food and shelter and agrees to allow her only child to risk his life just to help these people get off the planet.
Could Padme be so callous as to ignore that?

Besides, when she was on Tatooine, it looked like Shmi's life was alright. She had her own house, at least. Not that she condoned slavery, but she didn't exactly see any peril in the situation.

no peril?! she's a slave and as such can be sold at any time to any scumbag who might do what he wanted with her. Is Padme so stupid as to not be aware of that?

g