Why didn't it mention how Palpatine got total clone control?

watch the ROTJ carefully and you will realise that before Sidious was killed rebel ships were well underway into Death Star reactor chamber; the flaw of ROTJ is that lucas tried to use Return of the King formulae,, where the good guys (aragon et al.) are outnumbered greatly (endor and Black gate) and than the hero (frodo and LUke) make their way into the dungeons of Bradur (Death star); the only differnce is the Dark Lord of Baradur held a leash over his minions while if there was such thing in ROTJ it was no shown on screen at all. though it was touched by timothzy zahn ...

just remember that way before emperor was killed rebel ships were well underway into Death Star reactor chamber and vader's command ship was aleady gone; wether luke went on Death star II it wouldnt have mattered; the deathstar would have been destroyed along with Vader and his emperor with it

 

Wrong Forum, but some have suggested that it was Luke's presence on the Death Star that distracted the Emperor from noticing he was losing the space battle outside. In this case Luke plays the Aragorn and the armies of Gondor role while Lando and Wedge are the two little Hobbits who slip quietly into Mordor and blast Mt. Doom (the Death Star reactor).

 

The very first person to give orders to the clones was Yoda. I see the question here, what made the clones not ask Yoda what to do or not to do and gave palpy all the control? Since yoda was first to command them wouldnt they look to him for a final answer instead of sneaking up on him before he beheads them? How and when did they get told dont listen to yoda your first master anymore and only listen to darth sidious or palpatine?

 

I hate people comparing Star Wars to LOTR..lotr is crap

 

Easy Answer:
Palpatine is the Supreme Chancellor. What he say goes; he controls the army. Obviously, Order 66 was created some time before the events of ROTS because the clones automatically knew what it was. They obeyed the order because it came straight from the desk of Palpatine (even though he was wearing a hood and looked deformed at the time).

Hard Answer:
Sidious used ploys across several decades to create two separate armies, both obeying his command and not knowing his true intentions. Personally, I don't think he's that smart - he did risk it all fighting sam jackson for no apparent reason. But then again, those die-hard believers of Sidious all-powerfulness say that he had everything planned out from day one (which is of course rediculous because he acted on large scale plans, not tiny details).

 

The structure of the GAR explains it all. The clones ultimately answered to Palpatine; the Jedi were merely glorified officers. The fact that Yoda was the very first non-Kaminoan to issue an order to a clone means absolutely nothing.

 

He's only called my Lord as a Sith Lord, iirc. The fact that they use his Sith title instead of his Republic title suggests that there was programming on the level the Jedi don't know about, not that it was hidden in plain sight/part of the Republic training. It's not a military order, it's a secret order as Sith Lord. If someone else was somehow Chancellor, I don't think the clones would follow it.

 

i sooooooooo agree with the hard and easy answer
and this forum is filled with die-hard believers of Sidious all-powerfulness ... lol

anyone who read Isaac Asimov's foundation trilogy and the science of psycho-history can comprehend the shear magnitude of galactic affair controled by million upon millions different people and different positions and so on ...

 

i disagree,
i beilive the entire making the movie process of ROTJ was one sloppy work that was just design to wrap things the easyiest way they could find ...

1)hey lets have another deathstar so there will a reason why the rebel want to attack here.
2)the entire space battle doesnt make sense;
3)Executor alone should have wiped out the entire rebel fleet with no DS and other destroyers.
4)the imperial destroyers just disappear at the end (yes, EU tells use that they jump into hyperspace)
5)worst atrocity of all is the scene where the TIE fighter apear as a group on the screen, their number is even less than what one normal imperial destroyer could muster. the scene was resurrected for ROTS where the ARC170 and the jedi fly into group of driod fighters; but in ROTS they were the fighter group of ONE ship (greviosu's ship) that made sense
6)hey we have the script for half movie, so lets extend the Jabba part to fill the first half
7)have u guys tried to count how many fighters rebel had (less than Yavin,.. it looks like)
8)there is a scene in ROTJ where the tiny medical frigate is dueling a massive imperial destroyer, ROTS-style; so thats how the Empire lost its clossul massive stardestroyers by dueling a medical frigate
9)"my best legion of stromtroopers" ???????????????
10)take a look at Imperial office's rank
11)Jerjerrond turned into a wuss???? why????
12)what the use of rebel transports aside showing variety in the rebel fleet

the things i love about that movie ==> the emperor, lambda-class shuttle, and Royal Guards
the movie IMHO had the best scene in the entire Saga ==> emperor arrival to Death Star (best scene ever!!!)

sorry dude ... anyways its Wrong Forum for this kind of ranting

 

There's no reason not to build another Death Star. It was a success. It was destroyed because of a flaw in it's design that only a Force user could exploit. Neither Sith Lord forsaw Luke blowing it up. Besides, Lucas couldn't do Had Abbadon/Courscant on 36 million.

How so? The Alliance arrives and discovers the truth, that the sheild is up. The Star Destroyers block all pathways, preventing Hyperspace travel. The Death Star would take care of the rest. Only Palpatine, Jerjerrod and the technicians who operated the laser knew it was working.

It's a Star Destroyer, like any other. Anyway, see above.

The Death Star is gone, along with the Sith. The Executor and another Star Destroyer or two were lost. Best to either surrender or get the hell out of there.

Lucas didn't have that much money, time or manpower back in 82-83. Besides, most people wouldn't give a crap about that.

Well, they had to rescue Han first. That was always the plan, once TESB had Han frozen in Carbonite.

No offense, but you sound like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons. Anyway, see above. Time, money, manpower, etc.

The Frigate gets blown up, if it's any consolence (sp).

Yeah, overwhelmed by a large numbers and an AT-ST. The tide really turns when Chewie seizes control of the AT-ST and blows up the other remaining Imperial Walker. There were more Ewoks than there were Stormtroopers, just as there were more Battle Droids than there were Jedi on Geonosis.

What about it?

Lucas already did Tarkin. Besides, Jerjerrod didn't do much of anything. If anything, he transfered Vader's "wussiness" to Jerjerrord, if you read the early draft.

They fought, we didn't see it all.


Anyway, there was no guranatee that Lando and Wedge would make it to the core. It only happens after Vader has killed Palpatine, restoring balance to the Force and making it easier for our heroes to get the job done. The Thrawn Trilogy said that Palpatine used Battle Meditation, more or less, to control the Imperial Fleet. But he became distracted by the duel going on around him.

Oh and the hardware came from the Kaminoans and what the Republic had created. They had the warships, but they never used it. Kinda like the modern weaponary that's

 

I was going to do a point-by-point rebuttal, but obviously you're so dead-set against ROTJ that it wouldn't be worth the time. Nothing I could say would sway you. Instead, I'll just try to drive you nuts by saying that ROTJ is my favorite of all the SW films and probably the best of the bunch for a multitude of reasons.

 

I was going to do a point-by-point rebuttal, but obviously you're so dead-set against ROTJ that it wouldn't be worth the time. Nothing I could say would sway you. Instead, I'll just try to drive you nuts by saying that ROTJ is my favorite of all the SW films and probably the best of the bunch for a multitude of reasons.

dont worry friend. iam flexible;

Lucas didn't have that much money, time or manpower back in 82-83. Besides, most people wouldn't give a crap about that.

thats is the real issue; and iam aware of it. Nevertheless the space battle was really not planned out, as was Yavin's. but for some reason that doesnt bother me. anyways its my problem i guess

The Frigate gets blown up, if it's any consolence (sp).

i never seen it blow up; when exactly that happened?

10)take a look at Imperial office's rank

all imperial officers have the rank of Commander; wether they are Admiral, Moff, Major or otherwise

and i did read the early draft, and jerjerrond was portrayed as tough evil guy who was refered to as the Emperor's ear or something like that. there was a scene of him arrriving on executor, where Piett and others officers kneel before him and Vader refers to him as My Lord, (though he kills later on in the movie). that would have been cool to see

 

lol I agree the space battle in ROTJ was kinda sketchy. In the EU we see that the Lusankya was able to destroy a Calamari Cruiser-sized vessel in mere seconds. There's no reason that the Rebel fleet should lasted that long against that kind of firepower.

Anyways, back on topic. If Order 66 was programmed into the clones' genes, doesn't that mean someone on Kamino...someone involved with the cloning...is in on Palpatine's little conspiracy? From what we heard between Lama Su and Obi-Wan, it didn't sound like the whole Kaminoan race was maliciously plotting agains the Jedi. And if you believe Battlefront 2's storyline, they definitely did not support the Empire.

 

That's what we thought at first, but Pablo later explained in the Insider that Order 66 wasn't a genetic trigger at all, but simply a code of conduct. Among what must be a miriad of orders was placed this one failsafe in case the Jedi Generals ever attempted to turn on the Republic. Something I'm sure some Senators who were awed or frightened by the Jedi's seemingly supernatural powers would have happily agreed upon. No need to be ultra secret about such a scenario no one ever believed would happen.

 

i dont thinkt it was a genetic trigger at all, since sidious needs to send the message personnally each time for each clone commander, thus making sure Commander Appo does recieve the order or otherwise anakin would be smoking

 

The swift execution of Order 66 was due to the clone's ingrained loyalty to the Republic. No genetic encoding. No subconscious trigger. Just loyalty.

 

I wouldn't say you're the only one. There are probably others that feel the way you do, but we haven't heard from all of them.

When the Death Star started firing. The Medical Frigite was one of the ships destroyed, though the eu would glaze over that later on.

Yeah, but I still don't get the point.

True, maybe. I guess it would've worked better had he been introduced in TESB and had his role then. Or if Lucas kept Sate Pestage beyond the first two drafts and bumped him up for ROTJ.

 

When the Death Star started firing. The Medical Frigite was one of the ships destroyed, though the eu would glaze over that later on.

are u sure, as i remember the DS shoots twice, and each time it takes away a moncalamri cruiser
unless the Medical Frigate was near one of the ships ... anyways i'll go look for it lateron
hmmm.. that gives me an excuse to watch emperor's arrival scene yet again

 

"all imperial officers have the rank of Commander; wether they are Admiral, Moff, Major or otherwise"

The command structure of the GAR remained in place well into the Galactic Civil War.

 

no what i mean is that; if u look at their rank on their uniform, it displayes the rank of a Commander (four squares i think) it was a mistake in the custom departmen during ROTJ production
now if u watch TESB u can clearly know who is the Admiral, who is the General, Lieutenant etc. just by looking at the number of squares on their uniform. they messed this up during ROTJ production, so in the movie Admiral Piett, Moff Jerjerrond, the officer who delivers luke to Vader on endor and all other officers are wearing the insignia of a Captain or something (four squares);

in DVD 2004, for TESB they fixed a scene of admiral piett where he was mistakenly wearing his insgina on his right side. they used CG to move it to his left shoulder.
hopeflly they will fix this one; it really bothers me; u know before the PT cameout, OT it was all that i had; so i dug a lot and anayzed alot. these things about ROTJ really bothers me for a long time lol

 

You see, I disagree. I don't believe Palpatine would just surrender any possibility of controlling the clone army if the separatist crisis was somehow easily resolved early and he had to leave office. (Dooku keels over from a heart attack or something). It can't be tied to his position, it has to be tied to him personally, and there has to be a way for him to grab control even if he somehow got voted out of the position. He plans for contingencies, we know this. The script's use of 'my Lord' supports this. Because that terminology is only used in the movies in reference to Sith, and it's extensively used in that context.

Otherwise, wouldn't it set off alarm bells that the clones were referring to Palpatine as 'my Lord' all the time? Given it's not his title and nobody else does and presumably the Jedi are looking for another Sith Lord?

 

The first time I remember hearing Palpatine referred to as 'my Lord' was in response to Order 66. Did it happen before then?

 

The Neimodians, Mace when he's unmasked, Dooku, Grievous... Basically, the people who know him as Sidious.

 

no it doesnt not; being called My Lord has nothign to do with anyof this
was Padme considered to be a Sith Lady, because she was called m'Lady
Nay

 

Padme is an ex-Queen, Palpatine isn't. Lord is used in an extremely specific way to refer to Sith Lords in Star Wars. There are no non-Sith lords in the Saga.