Why didn't Maul just Force off Vizsla's head?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Graves101, Mar 30, 2013.

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  1. Graves101 Jedi Master

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    Mar 28, 2013
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    "I challenge you, one warrior to another! And only the strongest shall rule Mandalore..."
    - Darth Maul.

    Darth Maul = Sith Lord = Force Sensitive. What was the point of that statement? I mean, let's be honest, Maul as a Sith, is naturally beyond Vizsla in terms of strength, no questions asked. And there was no mention of it being an honorable battle, nor was it even shown to be one. Maul fought honorably in every way by simply using his Lightsaber, while Vizsla had a lightsaber, but chose to use wires, brain cutters, flamethrowers, grenades, and hell even a jetpack!

    So if that is the case, the moment Vizsla accepted his challenge, all Maul had to do was use the Force to lift Vizsla up, and snap his head off. There should not even have been a fight to have risked his life so badly, when that is the only thing needed.

    It's as if Maul forgot he was a Sith Lord, and had you know, Force powers? And Savage Opress was doing exactly as I described just a few seconds before the challenge.
  2. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

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  3. Graves101 Jedi Master

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    Mar 28, 2013
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    It's simple logic isn't it? Vizsla has no superhuman powers, and would immediately die to a Force bind.
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  4. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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    Maul marched, unarmed, into a hall with more than a dozen fully armed and armored Mandalorian soldiers. The only reason he wasn't immediately cut down upon entry is his use of the Death Watch's own code of honor to force Vizsla into a one-on-one duel. A duel which by its very nature would ensure that even after killing their sworn leader that had just led them to victory, Death Watch would be honorbound to not only refrain from immediate retribution, but voluntarily serve Maul as the new leader.

    Savage is the only one of the two with a lightsaber, the only ready means of blocking blaster bolts. Will he be able to cover both himself and Maul, especially once reinforcements arrive from behind? And though his own armor is highly durable, as is his body, it's only so long before enough shots get through to take him down as seen in Witches of the Mist, assuming that someone doesn't get a headshot. These aren't stupid droids doing the shooting, either, and though Savage could try the same Force-repulse trick he used aboard the cruiser, it would only buy him mere moments before the armored soldiers recovered. Maul has no lightsaber, meaning that to keep from dying quickly, he would either have to remain in motion or launch a targeted attack at his attackers, deflecting their aim or rendering them unable to fire. Since he has no skill with Force lightning, and the highest number of enemies we've seen capable of being choked at the same time was Ventress' four-way in Nightsisters, Maul's going to have his hands full with 12+ armored Mandos, some of which are more than likely wearing armor made of beskar. Even assuming that somehow, someway, Maul and Savage manage to defeat and or kill everyone in that throne room, they now have to hold on to that seat of power against an entire army of Death Watch soldiers, and potentially Mandalore's additional warrior clan population that'll be none-too-pleased to hear there's a Sith on their world claiming power. Those aren't particularly great odds for anyone in a fight, assuming of course that Death Watch doesn't decide to simply cut their losses and level the palace with the Sith Brothers still inside.

    The series has done its best to show Maul with a mind for tactical analysis. With that in mind, what is the smart play? Humor their codes, engage a single foe in battle, and subsequently claim immediate leadership over his significant forces and the powerbase he held upon his death? Or try to overpower more than a dozen of the most dangerous non-Force-users with no weapon and no cover, knowing that even should you win against them, you would then have to hold off an entire legion of equally dangerous and possibly even more heavily armed individuals in a non-defensible palace? The answer seems rather obvious.
    Last edited by Mia Mesharad, Mar 30, 2013
  5. CaptainRex115 Jedi Master

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    Jan 11, 2013
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    if he tried to use the force on vizsla it would have left him open to get stabbed/shot/blown up and he would have died..... The same thing could be said about Vizsla, why didnt he just shoot maul? he disarmed him with the blaster shot yet ran in with his saber to try to finish him off.
  6. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Fans overestimate the power of The Force.
  7. KED12345 Force Ghost

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    Since when can you cut off someone's head with the force?

    Besides, why didn't Maul just use the force to throw Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon over again, and again? Simple - Maul's preference is lightsaber combat.
    Last edited by KED12345, Mar 30, 2013
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  8. Hercu Dogla Jedi Knight

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    Mar 13, 2013
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    Once the challenge was accepted I think the point was to prove he was not only the better fighter but the better leader. Sure he could have force choked Visla as soon as he jumped at Maul but how would the soldiers react to that? Seeing their leader not only beaten but beaten in combat where Maul used only a lightsaber but Visla used a slew of equipment and weapons only makes Maul look more badass
    darklordoftech likes this.
  9. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    I just laugh at these. Why didn't Yoda sense Sidious was there in Ep1 and cut him down? That'd make for good entertainment, right?
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  10. Gallandro Chosen One

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    This ^^^^^ Maul reveals why he doesn't use his Force abilities in the fight when speaking with Savage in the scene which proceeds his battle with Vizla. The Mandalore are a warrior culture with a sense of honor and tradition, had Maul simply used his Force powers to choke Vizla to death he never would have won their loyalty by using a trick to defeat someone in hand to hand combat. In fact Bo-Katan is immediately called out by other soldiers for not falling in line with "tradition" and swearing allegiance to Maul once he defeats Vizla. She then declares: "No outsider will ever rule Mandalore," and escapes with the remaining troops loyal to her and Vizla.

    Yancy
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  11. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    To be fair, like Maul not ripping Vizsla's head off with the Force, Yoda not sensing Sidious is relatively straightforward: he's concealing himself from them, "The dark side has clouded their vision" (Dooku, AOTC). Sometimes there are scenarios where the Force is forgotten in order to facilitate plot contrivance, though.
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  12. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    I'm well aware of the IU explanation. Hell, Yoda says, "the dark side clouds everything" enough times for even me to take notice! :p

    I was just highlighting how the Force is used OOU - it being manipulated to work in some occasions and not in others, in order to make entertaining viewing.
  13. CaptainRex115 Jedi Master

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    Jan 11, 2013
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    if maul tried to use the force vizsla would have just shot him or thrown a bomb at him and maul wouldnt be able to dodge. Maul had his guard up the entire fight cause vizsla would pull out his blaster with deadly accuracy. if maul dropped his guard for a second to try to force choke vizsla would just shoot him dead
  14. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    In ESB it was pretty much established that a break in concentration leads to an inability to use the Force.

    Luke is doing a hand stand and lifting rocks, he gets a vision of the future, becomes anxious, his concentration is broken, and everything collapses.

    Then he tries to lift the X-wing out of the swamp, but his mind is filled with doubts that render the feat impossible.


    If it's a matter of concentration, then I'm guessing having Vizsla shooting a variety of gadgets at Maul keeps him fairly distracted that he is in no position to have the clarity to call upon the the telekinetic powers.

    Obi-Wan states that the Force partially controls one's actions but also obeys their command. Getting the Force to obey a command seems like it is more mentally strenuous. I assume that's why things like taunting becomes particularly effective as is "dun moch" in the EU, it serves to break the opponent's concentration.

    That's my take on it anyway.

    If Character A didn't just use the Force against Character B, ask yourself if he was anxious, afraid, stressed, exhausted, etc. Maul can Force choke Obi-Wan, so why didn't he just do that all the time? In the middle of their fights he might not have achieved the focus to do so. Dooku uses the Force to push Anakin away after cutting off his arm, and he's visually exhausted afterward. Yoda IMO looks like he's struggling to quickly achieve the mental clarity to call upon the Force to save Obi-Wan and Anakin from the falling crane, Luke has to close his eyes and go into a meditative state to lift C3PO up to intimidate the Ewoks, etc.

    It doesn't seem like something easily done under stress.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 31, 2013
  15. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Kudos to @Mia Mesharad for having the patience to take the OP seriously and giving a full response. I couldn't have brought myself to do it.
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  16. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

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    Does it really matter? He won anyway, no?
  17. The Shadow Emperor Force Ghost

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    Why didn't Obi-Wan just Force push Grievous off that hundred story balcony on Utapau? Questions, questions. :p
  18. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Yeah, I could see Obi-Wan killing him without even exposing himself.

    GENERAL GRIEVOUS: It won't be long before the armies of the Republic track us here. I am sending you to the Mustafar system in the Outer Rim. It is a volcanic planet which generates a great deal of scanning interference. You will be safe there.

    NUTE GUNRAY: Safe? Chancellor Palpatine managed to escape your grip, General, without Count Dooku. I have doubts about your ability to keep us safe.

    GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Be thankful, Viceroy, you have not--

    *OBI-WAN, in hiding, makes a swift poking motion with his hand*
    *GENERAL GRIEVOUS' organ sack pops and he abruptly collapses in death*

    NUTE GUNRAY: ....General?

    *CIS leaders look at each other confused and shrug*

    OBI-WAN: That was incredibly easy.
  19. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    I honestly don't mind questions of this sort. There have been countless times in the films and EU that the Force is abandoned by its users for the sake of plot contrivance. The best kind of story, in my opinion, is one that adequately justifies why Force user X doesn't clobber non-Force user Y to death. @TaradosGon's post goes a long way towards addressing that.
    Last edited by Sable_Hart, Mar 31, 2013
  20. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Yeah, I liked how TG put it. I also have thought that the force probably takes a physical toll on the user as well as requiring consentration. If your already in a fight and starting to wear out the physical demands of calling on the force to ones body may be a bit much. For example in the Padawan Lost arc which I just rewatched last night. When Ahsoka used the force to repeatedly change the aim of her attacker's blaster 3-4 times in a row, not only does she seem to exhaust her pool of force (Seems limited) but afterward after batting her hands around a few times to direct the force she seems more worn out.

    In the cast of Maul vs. Vizsla his goal was to become Death Watch's leader so Maul being the smart guy TCW portrays him has follows their customs and beats Vizsla on his own level. He seems to call only on the force abilities he can't turn off. It makes for a much cooler fight on screen as well than if Maul had just walked in and choked Vizsla to death while Savage bulldozed the Mandos. I could esee TCW having gone that route even though they are vastly out numbered. That would have been way lame IMO. I like how TCW handled that fight. I can't wait to see if any deleted scenes await on the blu-ray when/if it comes out.
    Last edited by Seerow, Mar 31, 2013
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  21. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

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    Actually, I never got why Kenobi waited so long to Force push Grievous in ROTS. GG was not even a Force sensitive...
  22. Narutakikun Force Ghost

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    I agree with some others here. The point of the duel was to get to be in charge of Vizsla's group of Mandalorians. To do that, you have to fight by Mandalorian rules, which would almost certainly see obvious use of the Force as "cheating".
  23. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Cause that would make it lame
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  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

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    hahhhaah, I wanna see that version of the movie so bad. Obi-Wan simply turns around and walks away, gets back in time to Courscant to arrest Palpy and be back at the Jedi Council beer pong war-ending celebration.
  25. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

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    Because Force Users are too overpowered in this show? Because there is a goddamn overabundance of Jedi and Sith in Star Wars, and the marginalization of anyone not using the Force is getting on my effing nerves?
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