CT Why didnt Obi Wan(BEN KENOBI) Keep Luke

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Alessandro Sanfilippo, Sep 21, 2013.

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  1. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    If you see it as separate, then you're denying reality, I'm sorry to say. It is all a part of the same continuity. I don't know how I can get this across to you. The movies and the EU each combine to complete what is known as Star Wars today. All evidence supports this.
  2. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    You can't get it across to me. To be blunt, you shouldn't waste your time trying. This isn't the EU forum, I'm not all that interested in discussing EU plots.

    And they aren't the same story, not even Lucas actually believes that. You fall for their marketing. That's on you.

    Here is just one quote where Lucas discusses the difference between EU material and his films

    ^^^ His world, and their world. That sums it up. He takes what he likes from the EU, he sheds what he doesn't. It's not gospel, it's a way to sell books.

    These new films being made, the ones based on his treatments, are going to steamroll the post Jedi EU. You're going to see what he really thinks of it.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Oct 30, 2013
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  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    For a movie example of Tatooine being depicted as

    "A place where people go who don't want to be found."

    there's TPM, in which Qui-Gon uses those very words - and Padme replies "Like us."
  4. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    That's where people go who don't want to be found, when they aren't connected to the planet. They GO there. If you're hiding a Skywalker, you go somewhere else

    The problem is the same, that doesn't change a thing.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Oct 30, 2013
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In a lot of cases, the EU writers were following Lucas's instructions, when they wrote what they wrote.
  6. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Sometimes yes, sometimes no. You make films, the films have to stand on their own. I don't care one bit what any of the EU has to say on it. That includes things I like, like the Clone Wars.

    It's pretty annoying that I have to repeat that over and over again, but it is what it is I guess.

    There is no place here for people who want to discuss the films in their own context, not even the film forums.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Oct 30, 2013
  7. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    A case could be made that the "plot hole" was there in A New Hope before Vader ever was Luke's father.

    We are told that Luke's father is a Jedi Knight. And that Owen thinks he should have "stayed here and not gotten involved" (evidence that his home planet is Tatooine).
    We are told that Vader killed him
    We are told that Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights"

    Yet Luke, who has the potential to "learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi" is being raised by the family of a Jedi Knight killed by the Empire.
  8. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    It's not a plot hole in and of itself, because in ANH the idea that Luke was being hidden was not put forth. That came in the sequels. I think it's Empire and Jedi that first cause the problem, and then the PT doubles down on it.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Even in A New Hope- there's a general idea that Jedi like Obi-Wan are hidden- or they're dead.

    Not a huge jump, to conclude that any offspring of Jedi would have to be hidden in some way as well, lest the Empire, for fear that they would take revenge for the deaths of their parents, kill them.
  10. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Oh yes, I do think Kenobi is hiding. But not Luke. At least as far as ANH is concerned. He even considers the academy an option.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Owen keeps preventing him from going though.
  12. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, because he doesn't want him following in his father's footsteps. But his aunt is prodding Owen to let go, so obviously she thinks letting go is an option. It's just not there in ANH.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Oct 30, 2013
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    What would have been needed in RoTJ, to ensure that the "plot-hole" didn't appear vis-a-vis hiding Luke? Obi-Wan telling Luke that Owen's not his uncle, that Tatooine's not his home planet, and that the Larses moved there to hide, rather than always having been there? (And that Beru was not "in the know")?

    How about for Leia?
  14. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I don't know that there was a way to really tell the story of Luke being Vader's son without it being a plot hole. Some of those ideas may have limited it. I think I would have preferred for Owen and Anakin to not have originally been from Tatooine, and for Tatooine to be a place Owen and Kenobi went to hide.

    It's going to be a plot hole no matter what you do, especially with Leia on top of it. Her memory fo her mother, her high status as a princess, combined with Luke and the Tatooine issue. It was problematic no matter what.

    The PT took the tact of doubling down on these issues instead of attempting to minimize them.
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Plot hole or no plot hole, I can't see The Empire Strikes Back being nearly as successful with the line "Obi-Wan killed your father."
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  16. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I agree. Empire is my favorite Star Wars movie. By a mile.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Oct 30, 2013
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I'm pretty sure it's "tack" not "tact"

    Since a boat tacks, when going into the wind- first tacking one way, then the other.

    Thus "tack" can be used for "direction".
  18. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    No, I meant tact. As in, the wisdom in the choice of words.

    Probably not a wise choice of words on my part, ironic
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Oct 30, 2013
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I've never seen that phrase before.

    I've seen the phrase "taking a different tack" when someone tries a different way of solving something, numerous times, however- hence my reaction.
  20. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    You're reaction is not misplaced. It was a clumsy and wrong use of the word. I'm kind of tired.
  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    How could the PT have minimised the Leia issue, given that:

    "That is why your sister remains safely anonymous"

    is hard to a apply to a Senator of the Empire, turned Rebel leader, with a straight face?
  22. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    She is anonymous in that nobody knows her status as a Skywalker. As to the logic in hiding her in such a prominent place, that's a tough one. There isn't a lot of logic to it.

    It could have been something along the lines of the royalty of Alderaan taking her in after her mother's death, not knowing who she was. Her mother could have fled to Alderran and been a trusted servant or something. This version of Leia's mother would probably be a very different character from the Padme we get.

    I think the idea of the mother being alive, and actually being the one to make the decision to split up the children in the hopes of increasing their chances of survival is a good one.

    The daughter goes with the mother, the son goes with Owen (an Owen that has a relationship of somekind with Anakin, not the one we see) and they both go off into hiding.

    Alderann for her, Tatooine for Owen. This Owen is not from Tatooine either.

    Really, a very different PT is what I usually imagine.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Oct 30, 2013
  23. Visivious Drakarn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2013
    star 2
    It depends on what does hidden mean. Hiding in a cave, in the undergrounds of some remote planet, in a forest etc. The twins are hidden from the Sith and Leia is protected in Alderaan's royal family and Luke is protected by Kenobi in Tatooine desert.
    The movies explain it very good, in fact, in the OT it was a plot hole, but ROTS fixed it.
    For me, a plot hole is something you can't explain, like Falcon getting to Bespin without a hyperdrive in less than 40 thousand years. In this case there are enough spots you can connect to get a larger picture of the story.
  24. Zane the Reaper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    Oh boy.
    Last edited by Zane the Reaper, Oct 30, 2013
  25. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    You're right, there is no place for people like that, because nearly everyone else recognizes that there is more to Star Wars than just the films. I would like it if you would stop automatically rejecting any information from the novels whenever they are presented here. It comes across as juvenile.
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