why didn't padme rescue Shmi from tatooine?

"Also, in AOTC, she never says "Save your mother? Didn't Qui-gon go back and save her already?""

I'm pretty sure Padme knows that Qui-Gon died. After all, his death was before the big victory celebration on Naboo.

And can we please get back to discussing this? The pointless sarcastic remarks aren't helping anything, and neither are the attempts at humor.

 

I think humour has always had an important place in debates, a good piece of satire can be very illuminating. Of course whether something is funny or not depends on your POV.

But back to the debate -

My hope is that Lucas somehow uses this problem in the next film, but it's difficult to see how.

My fear is that it's just a 'hole', something he didn't notice.

gez

 

"I'm pretty sure Padme knows that Qui-Gon died."

Oops, you are right, although you could easily replace "Qui-gon" with "Jedi" . Nonetheless, Padme never gave visiting Shmi a second thought in TPM, and yet never gave it a second thought in AOTC as well. The first time, she does nothing, the second time, she's flying halfway across the galaxy.

 

"It has nothing to do with the reach of the law, it has to do with the intent of the law. First of all, I pointed out earlier that an argument based on the Fugitive Slave acts doesn't apply here. Secondly, there's no stated or implied "Prime Directive" of the Republic preventive Padme from going to Tatooine and buying Shmi in order to release her."

First, just because the Republic couldn't resolve a planet being blockaded doesn't mean it can go out of it's way to visit every backwater planet in the Outer Rim Territories and freeing it's slaves because they do not exist to the residents of the Outer Rim. If the Republic has no goverment hold over a backwater planet like Tatooine, then it's none of their business what goes on Tatooine or the majority of the Outer Rim Territories.

Second, Tatooine has no laws seeing as it's basically run by gangsters and they don't take kindly to anyone coming to their turf and shoving his/her government laws down their throats because the Hutts will either hold that person hostage or make that person take a permanent dirtnap and noone from within the Republic wants that to happen.

Even Captain Panaka expresses to Qui-Gon and Obi-wan about it being a bad idea to send Queen Amidala to Tatooine knowing what the Hutts will do to her if she is discovered.

Noone in the Republic wants a public relations nightmare in their hands should one of its senators go to Tatooine and ends up being captured by the Hutts.

"a) if anyone found out that she did "buy a slave", she need only to explain the circumstances, and show that she wasn't trying to promote slavery in any way."

But they'll think she's going around outside planets shoving it's anti-slavery laws down people's throats which would give out the wrong impression to those people that the Republic has this "Our goverment is the best", "We're holier than thou", and "It's either our way or the high way" attitudes.

It's like having the US sneak into Cuba and snatching Elian Gonzalez away from his family and friends while telling them "this kid belongs in America".

The Senate would never allow Padme to take such an action.

"b) no one need ever find out anyways. Shmi stays on Tatooine a free woman, and Padme goes on her merry way, with no one the wiser as to what she has done."

And then we see what becomes of Shmi in AOTC.

"c) Padme need never tell anyone her true alliegeance, much less her true identity, especially since no one on Tatooine knew of it in the first place, not even Shmi! To assume that she would suffer political repurcussions implies that someone either finds out her actions, or "recognizes" her on Tatooine. Both are extremely unlikely, considering how much she changes her appearence as Queen Amidala."

Not even if one of her gaurds could be one of the Trade Federation in disguise monitering what Padme is doing so he can report back to the TF and help them find an excuse to have the Republic prohibit Padme from going to Tatooine?

"The Jedi said you can't have attachments, but they did not say you can't have any existing family left behind."

That still doesn't mean they will give you permission to see your family because "you made a committment to the Jedi Order, a committment not easily broken." A jedi must have the deepest commitment and the most serious mind but in order to accomplish this, they can't let anything distract them even if it means forbidding any of their own to visit their families.

"Whether or not Shmi was released would not have any bearing on Anakin's training at all, assuming he was never told, thus AOTC continues as it did."

When Anakin starts having nightmares about Shmi, then it starts to have a bearing on his training.

"By the way, keep in mind that Obi-wan considers Bail Organa a " friend", in addition to being a good soldier."

But we don't see them hanging together at all throughout AOTC.

"Lastly, the Jedi Council doesn't seem to have a problem with reacquinting Anakin with Padme, whom he'd already met, and therefore had some relationship with

 

PMT99 -

can I just ask you to clarify a couple of your points -

You're saying that Padme had absolutely no time in the 10 years following TPM to do anything about Shmi?

And - why couldn't she ask someone else to go in her place and free Shmi?

gez

 

"It's like having the US sneak into Cuba and snatching Elian Gonzalez away from his family and friends while telling them "this kid belongs in America"."

Okay, let's see if I've got your analogy straight.

Parallels:
1) This young boy is removed from his last remaining parent.
2) This young boy is asked if he wants to stay with with his last remaining parent.
3) This young boy is removed from his native land.
4) This young boy is told he belongs in another location, to be raised in a completely different environment.
5) This young boy is not allowed to go back and visit the last remaining parent.
6) This young boy is shown visibly to thousands of people, many of whom know his background.

Now, let's look at these again, "from a certain point of view."
Parallels to parallels:
1) This young boy is removed from his last remaining parent. (Anakin from Shmi)
2) This young boy is asked if he wants to stay with with his last remaining parent. (Anakin staying with Shmi)
3) This young boy is removed from his native land. (Anakin taken from Tatooine)
4) This young boy is told he belongs in another location, to be raised in a completely different environment. (Anakin to Coruscant, trained by the Jedi)
5) This boy is not allowed to go back and visit the last remaining parent. (Anakin going back to visit Shmi)
6) This young boy is shown visibly to thousands of people, many of whom know his background. (Anakin is shown in full view of the people of Tatooine, making him quite a celebrity. He is also seen by many Naboobians, both regular folk and officials, at the end of TPM. In AOTC, he is also seen by many Coruscantians, both regular folk and officials.)

Interesting that there are no issues raised about Anakin's status in the films, yet you seem to believe that these issues would be raised with Shmi. I'm curious to know why you think there's a difference, especially with regards to someone of arguably less importance and less galactic exposure than Anakin. ?

"First, just because the Republic couldn't resolve a planet being blockaded doesn't mean it can go out of it's way to visit every backwater planet in the Outer Rim Territories and freeing it's slaves because they do not exist to the residents of the Outer Rim. If the Republic has no goverment hold over a backwater planet like Tatooine, then it's none of their business what goes on Tatooine or the majority of the Outer Rim Territories".

Thank you for proving my point. I hope everyone else takes this as an argument against the Republic, much less Naboo, holding Padme accountable for freeing a slave. By the way, this situation goes against your previous analogy. The U.S. and Cuba were fighting a political war tooth and nail over Elian Gonzalez, yet you just showed that the Republic couldn't care less, and I doubt the Hutts would be willing to expend such energy over one slave, much less the slave's mother.

"But they'll think she's going around outside planets shoving it's anti-slavery laws down people's throats which would give out the wrong impression to those people that the Republic has this "Our goverment is the best", "We're holier than thou", and "It's either our way or the high way" attitudes."

I'm curious. Would "they" be the people of Naboo who saw Anakin, and watched him during the parade celebration? Perhaps you feel they treated him differently because he "saved" Naboo. Perhaps you feel they would not extend this gratitude towards the mother of the child who saved Naboo? I don't see them telling Padme to return Anakin to Tatooine, do you?

In fact, quite the opposite happened. She became one of their most popular queens.

SW.COM: Padme Amidala

"When her terms ended, Amidala was constitutionally obligated to step down as Queen, though the public would have easily backed an amendment allowing her to serve longer."

Remember that this all happened ea

 

No offense to YodaJeff, but everytime someone makes a joke, YodaJeff has to say 'That's not funny, stop trying to make jokes'.

YodaJeff why don't you chill out some? Laugh a little grandpa

 

I don't mind an occasional joke. However, I don't like seeing a decent thread start to get derailed by a bunch of joking, especially when the joking is aimed at making fun of the arguments presented by those who they have been discussing it with.

 

ya but whenever someone says anything funny you come in like you're the grandpa and tellin the kids to quiet down. why dont you just keep your mouth shut and let ppl laugh? Just a thought.

 

"you come in like you're the grandpa"

If you keep calling YJ that, he's gonna hit you with his cane.

"decent thread", eh? It seems like most of the posters have gone away (some are missed, others... )

It's getting kinda lonely in here. RS, where are you!?!?!

Maybe they are just silently reading along?

 

Yoda Jeff-

If you're referring to 10 reasons why Padme wouldn't have tried to save Shmi - well let me say that all the reasons given are quotes from folks on this thread regarding Padme and Shmi.

It's an analogy, but if it's funny (I say if , it's not for me to say) then it's cos you can see how close the 2 scenarios are; and yet I'm sure we'd all agree that Padme not trying to save Obi would be ridiculous; er...we would all agree on that wouldn't we.?

But what are your contributions to the debate? Do you still think Padme wouldn't have tried to save Shmi? Why?

gez

 

"yet I'm sure we'd all agree that Padme not trying to save Obi would be ridiculous; er...we would all agree on that wouldn't we.?"

Do you honestly believe that?!? That's completely nonsensical, and conflicts with everything we know about the films.

Don't get me started on another retarded theory!

 

There's a major difference: Obi-Wan was in immediate danger.

 

So, by that rationale, if Anakin foresaw Obi-Wan's plight in a vision beforehand, he would cease to be in immediate danger and wouldn't need aid of any kind... do nothing until AFTER something has happened.
Maybe they wanted to save Obi-Wan 'cause he had a better personality than Shmi? (sorry, lame attempt a Pulp Fiction humor!)

It's established that Anakin's having dreams about his mother, still Obi-Wan's answer is "*%$@ her!", in a nice way, of course.
The only problem I see was, unlike Han and Leia & Obi-Wan, Shmi isn't a active participant... she's the most innocent victim of this whole mess (excluding the Lars family in ANH), yet, even with warning and common sense (She's a slave, she could be sold to an abusive owner? How would THAT affect Anakin?, etc.), she's still hung out to die... so Annie can have a temper tantrum.

Lesson learned, Jedi can't help anyone except their own and Gov't officials, Gov't officials (even former ones) can't help anyone except their own people and Gungans don't help anyone, they are just a diversion!

I see all the discussion about debates/discussion, etc. but it seems to me some fans need to pull that lightsaber handle outta their rears!
It's SW don't take it so seriously, George doesn't! ("Icky, icky, goo!")

BTW, stil waiting on a "Ask The Jedi Council" answer... gotta get past that BURNING issue of what to do with Jedi Master points first.

The answer is..
"Nothing.. recycle 'em, eat 'em, whatever, we put them on the box because we just love getting mail from geeks that think a cardboard UPC symbol actually has value! It's a constant reminder that folks will believe anything and that no matter how bad our lives get, we aren't as pathetic as some people!"

Sorry about that last post, it had "tinges" of humor. Have that stricken from the record!

BTW, YodaJeff, we've given you lots of good reasons not to loan people money... it's not humor, it's educational!

 

I can't believe this thread is still going.

I'm not exactly clear as to what the naysayer's beef is.

Is it because no "official answer" has been provided?

Is it to provide twisted logical proof of Lucas' inability to tell a story?

Is it a means to prove how talented a creator a Star Wars fanboy can actually be if given the opportunity?

This is truly bizarre because, obviously, there have been numerous credible and realistic explanations provided as to why Padme (of all people) never freed Shmi. One needs to only pick one and be satisfied. Or is it the fascination in wallowing in one's own misery of how the PT has been laid out as of April 2003?

 

"This is truly bizarre because, obviously, there have been numerous credible and realistic explanations provided as to why Padme (of all people) never freed Shmi."

"Not even if one of her gaurds could be one of the Trade Federation in disguise monitering what Padme is doing so he can report back to the TF and help them find an excuse to have the Republic prohibit Padme from going to Tatooine?"

One of these things is not like the other...

 

"I'm not exactly clear as to what the naysayer's beef is."

Try reading sometime.

"Is it because no "official answer" has been provided?"

"You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!?!"

"Is it to provide twisted logical proof of Lucas' inability to tell a story?"

"Twisted"? Everything I stated is based on the films. Are you calling the films twisted? ?

"Is it a means to prove how talented a creator a Star Wars fanboy can actually be if given the opportunity?"

Considering how many creative posts you've contributed, I assume you are talking about yourself?

"This is truly bizarre because, obviously, there have been numerous credible and realistic explanations provided as to why Padme (of all people) never freed Shmi. One needs to only pick one and be satisfied. Or is it the fascination in wallowing in one's own misery of how the PT has been laid out as of April 2003?"

Each of which has been readily torn asunder. Ever wonder why it's been so easy to do?

Lots of questions, no real answers, and a dig at people simply trying to prove a point. Why, exactly, did you return again?

It's not as though you have any real ability to explain whatever fallacy you feel my posts contain. You apparently find it much easier to simply denigrate the intent of the posts altogether, rather than risk touching on specific points. Once again, you've proven that mine is the final word on the matter.

Thank you.

Next, please?

 

YodaJeff-

Yes, Obi wan was in immediate danger, so padme took immediate action.
How long do you think she should've waited before she took action about Shmi?

gez

 

Why, exactly, did you return again?

Why does it bother you? Perhaps I brought too much logic the first time to these asinine proceedings?

 

More non-thought-provoking questions and assumptions. ?

Perhaps you simply like to see your words on the screen.

 

kids....

 

I'm just happy accepting these films the way they are and not what they should have or might have been.

 

Tatooine is not under the Republic's jurisdication; it's controlled by Hutts.

Legally, she can do nothing. Perhaps, she can covertly assemble an "army" of her security guards & attempt a rescue. But then what? If it's BOTCHED, she, and through extension, the Naboo & the Republic could be seen to be engaging in an act of war.

Not to mention the fact that a "Hutt-controlled planet" is NOT a good place for a queen or senator.

Her hands are tied.


And, as others have mentioned, what would become of Shmi is she were saved?

 

"kids.... "

Exactly my point!

"Legally, she can do nothing. Perhaps, she can covertly assemble an "army" of her security guards & attempt a rescue. But then what? If it's BOTCHED, she, and through extension, the Naboo & the Republic could be seen to be engaging in an act of war."

Ahhhh, a real response, as opposed to thread loitering.

Remember, Perdition this never happened with Anakin, and everyone knew where he came from.

Besides, you make it sound like it requires a military operation. Did Cliegg have to storm Tatooine to buy Padme? Nope.

"Not to mention the fact that a "Hutt-controlled planet" is NOT a good place for a queen or senator."

Then how do you explain her walking around in TPM? She could have stayed on the ship, remember?

 

LucasCop -

You say : "perhaps I bought too much logic the first time to these asinine proceedings."

Would that be the logic where you suggest that Shmi would be better off in slavery because "one may be severely affecting Shmi's mental health if she is freed from Watto."
??

gez