Why didn't Qui-Gon just TAKE Shmi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth Valkyrus, Jun 10, 2013.

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  1. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 4
    Yeah, it doesn't really make much sense. An explanation like Padme telling Anakin she tried to free his mother and have her live on Naboo, but Watto/the Jedi Order wouldn't have it. That way *something* was attempted, rather than everyone just forgetting the mother of the boy who helped to save an entire planet. Though, in Padme's defense, she had a planet to rebuild and figured Obi-Wan or the Jedi Order would be taking care of the Shmi thing.
  2. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Haha that would be kind of funny. Not ha ha funny, but interesting funny. Padme thinking "Anakin is the Jedi's problem now. They'll handle his mother." Meanwhile, Obi-Wan is thinking "The least she could do is free his mother and keep her on Naboo. Good. The Order won't have to deal with it."

    Meanwhile Shmi is thinking "....anyone coming back for me? Anyone?" :p :p :p
  3. Garra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2014
    star 1
    Your completely right.
  4. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Or . . . who is that nice looking moisture farmer?
  5. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    I don't remember - but do the movies say when Lars freed her? It's been so long since I've seen AotC.
  6. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    Jinn had his priorities straight and knew what his mission was.
    "I didn't come here to free slaves."
  7. Loupgarou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    This is enough of an issue that it should have at least been addressed. While another Jedi might have been beurocratic enough to ignore Shmi, Qui Gon with his 'feel, don't think' mentality really would have tried to rescue her. It just seems like a few lines of 'we should save her' and Shmi saying 'no you can't, not fast enough, it's ok' and then some 'we won't forget you' would have sufficed.
    Darth Dominikkus likes this.
  8. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    He couldn't free Shmi . . . even if he wanted to. And Qui-Gon wanted to. That's why he tried to include both Skywalkers in his bet with Watto. But the latter refused to include both of his slaves in a bet regarding a pod race. And even if Qui-Gon had made an attempt to get Shmi off Tatooine, her transmitter would have killed her.

    By the end of the story, Qui-Gon was dead and Padme was busy dealing with the after effects of the Trade Federation's invasion.

    I realize that many of you wanted someone to free Shimi around the same time Anakin was freed . . . but you'll never get your wish. Just be happy that she was finally freed and spent several years of marital bliss with Cliegg Lars before her death.
  9. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    This. It's just lazy writing that it was forgotten and we're supposed to believe that in ten years no attempts were made by either Padme or the Jedi Order. It wouldn't have killed Lucas to make a throw away line or two explaining this.
  10. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    EU writers, at least, didn't forget it - and tried to address it with Tatooine Ghost & The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi- with Qui-Gon having a starship part sent secretly to her - so she could use it for bargaining with at some point.
  11. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    @Iron_lord you always save the day by your explanations. :D I'm glad the EU does at least try to address it. Granted, I still think it is weak that Lucas left such an obvious issue to the novels (or comics). But at least it was kind of addressed...
    Iron_lord likes this.
  12. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    What if Watto had said no to both Padme or the Jedi? The only reason he finally sold Shmi to Cliegg Lars was that his finances were in a decline.

    These accusations of "lazy writing" is nothing more than wishful thinking by fans, because of some desire for the "good guys" to always do the right thing. Why is it that every time a protagonist commit a major mistake or commit a crime, fans scream "bad writing" or "lazy writing"? Are they really that incapable of dealing with flawed protagonists?



    This makes NO SENSE whatsoever. When did Qui-Gon find the time to do this?
    Last edited by DRush76, Feb 4, 2014
  13. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Ok...I get there are 8 pages to go through here. So posts can get ignored, but I addressed this and it is at the top of this page. I'll re-quote it.

    I would be fine with Watto saying no. I'd be fine with the Jedi being cold blooded and not wanting distractions for Anakin (although, you'd think that Anakin would be distracted knowing he left his mother to rot as a slave under a slave master that might take out his losing to Qui-Gon on her....). I'd be fine with Padme trying pay back the little boy who - did a minor thing - helped SAVE her planet but Watto said no or the Jedi stopped her. It wasn't like she didn't know about Shmi. She sat down and ate dinner with her.

    My grievance was that this was not explained in the least. Except in the EU which is not the proper place to explain plot points. This isn't a minor plot point like "Where did Panaka go?" or "Do the Naboo now have a better relationship with the Gungans?" or "Where did Valorum go?" or any of that.

    I understand there is a ten year gap between the movies and the issue of Shmi could have been addressed in between, but clearly it wasn't from Padme or Anakin. Otherwise, Padme would have said something. And Anakin clearly thought Watto still had Shmi - judging by the fact he goes to him to find his mother.

    This should have been addressed is my point - not glossed over.

    Was it really necessary to do this strawman? You know very well I didn't say I wanted perfect protagonists or people who always do the right thing. If you read my post above, you'd see I say it would have been interesting if the Jedi BLOCKED saving Shmi so they could focus on their little Jedi Messiah. Which is a pretty cruel and flawed thing to do. I have no desire for the "good guys" to always do the right thing. Nor did I imply it.

    It's not even a matter of the Jedi, Padme, Anakin, Watto, or anyone making a "major mistake". It's a matter of it not being addressed at all. That was my issue.[/quote]
    Last edited by May_The_Force_Be_With_You, Feb 4, 2014
  14. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    It was addressed . . . in AOTC. We all know what happened. Shmi remained Watto's slave for several more years, until bad finances led him to sell her to Cliegg Lars. The latter freed and married her. That's it.


    Has it occurred to anyone that after Qui-Gon's death, no one - aside from Anakin - really bothered to think about her, until Anakin sought her out in AOTC?
    Last edited by DRush76, Feb 4, 2014
  15. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 4
    The Jedi strictly practiced separation, so none of them had any idea of what it'd be like to have a mother that you didn't see for ten years, and were worried about. To them, family was the Jedi Order, it's all they had ever known. They have no idea what it's like to have a mom and a dad, to live a normal, non-Jedi life.

    Could they have been more empathetic? Sure, and that's probably where they made their mistake. They failed an empathy check, assumed that Anakin would just get over his mother. They don't know the pain of separation, especially if it happened at such a young age. The worse they get is if their master/close friend dies, but they are soon quick to stop dwelling on it and they assumed Anakin would do the same about his mother.
    Last edited by DARTHLINK, Feb 4, 2014
  16. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    I understand that is what happened in AotC. I wasn't questioning her ultimate fate. I was questioning why the writer of this movie neglected to address this within the context of the story. He treated the characters as if they had the point of view of the audience. We jump back into the story from TPM and immediately wonder what happened. Except - we aren't given an explanation as to why Shmi was left to rot by all parties involved (including her own son). We're simply told not to worry about the fact it wasn't addressed in ten years and we should care now because Anakin senses she is in pain/danger.

    From a writing/story standpoint, it looks like no one cared about this until the plot demands we're meant to care. Again, this is not an insignificant thing. It is crucial to Anakin's development. Him being taken from his mother and leaving her to rot as a slave no doubt had a heavy effect on him. He was, for whatever reason, kept from her as we see in AotC she had never seen him since TPM. We're to assume that Anakin had assumed she was still with Watto all this time. Just left behind on Tatooine and no one to come to her aid - despite the fact there are a few parties that are aware of her grim fate but for no explainable reason do anything to help her.

    I'm a little more forgiving in that when you jump around in your story - especially ten years - certain things have to be addressed later on or you have to write it off as something that was addressed in the past. Obviously to have Anakin save his mother in episode 2 and not episode 1.5, it needed to be "addressed" later.

    And no - I am not demanding that every aspect be explained. I don't care what happened to Qui-Gon's lightsaber, if anyone found Maul's corpse, will Anakin's slave friends find freedom, or if Valorum tried to challenged Palpatine's claim. This is not something that should have been glossed over. It is especially irritating that all it would take were a few lines to explain why it took ten years for anyone to remember she even existed. Hell - for all we know- if Anakin hadn't had those dreams, he never would have gone to help her and left her to her fate (which he ASSUMED was being left to grow old and die serving Watto). There is a difference between making your character have a specific flaw and sloppy writing... That's all I'm saying.

    As for the topic of Qui-Gon, as I said, in my opinion? Had he survived, he would have gone back for her.
    Last edited by May_The_Force_Be_With_You, Feb 4, 2014
  17. TX-20 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 4
    Watto: "The deal was for the boy. And the boy alone!"
    Qui-Gon: "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."
    Darth Dominikkus likes this.
  18. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    This doesn't make sense to me. Shmi is not the main character of this story. We already know what happened to her. Qui-Gon couldn't free her, because Watto refused to make her part of the bet. Padme was more focused on freeing Naboo from the Trade Federation's occupation. The Jedi was more concerned over the possibility of the return of the Sith. Qui-Gon was dead. No . . . one . . was . . . thinking . . . of . . . Shmi's fate, except for Anakin. And no one cared about what he thought, because they were too occupied with their own anxieties. It's not bad writing. It just happened. It's just bad luck for her . . . until she met Cliegg Lars.

    You're still trying to re-arrange the story, because you can't accept the fact that Padme or the Jedi didn't do what you wanted them to do. Your comments do not strike me as a genuine concern about the story. Instead, they strike me as wishful thinking on your part.
    Last edited by DRush76, Feb 4, 2014
  19. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    More strawmen? Why?

    No one - least of all me - did not say Shmi was a main character. I already know why Qui-Gon didn't free her (nor did I question it). I'm not asking why Padme didn't free her during the events of TPM. Obviously her mind was preoccupied with something more important. I asked why she didn't in the ten year gap between movies. I understand why the Jedi didn't do it. I don't question what their reasoning was.

    It is irrelevant if you believe or don't believe if my comments strike you as genuine concern for the story. I'm not here to prove the sincerity of my words to you. Dismiss them or not.

    And wanting a point important to the central character (Anakin) of the saga to be addressed (with a few lines) is hardly asking to "re-arrange the story". I'm not saying this is some glaring plot hole that tears apart the movie. I'm not saying this ruins AotC. I'm not saying I want perfect good guys. I'm not saying that the entire story needs to be "re-arranged". I'm saying it is sloppy writing. You are saying it is not. Clearly - we don't agree.
  20. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 4
    In his defense, Shmi *IS* a major character to Anakin, so it would stand to reason that someone, at least, would have made *some* attempt at freeing her so he wouldn't be distracted from his Jedi training with 'my mom's a slave on a desert planet run by a gang.' Surely a dialogue that says something like, "Anakin, I tried to free your mother years ago, but Watto had long since sold her to someone else. I don't know where exactly she went, so we'll have to go to Watto first and find out."
  21. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    While on Coruscant:

    The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi:

    bolded lines are in movie- conversation continues in book:

    Obi Wan said, "The boy will not pass the Council's training. He's too old."
    Qui-Gon replied, "Anakin will become a Jedi, I promise you."
    "Do not defy the Council, Master ... not again."
    "I shall do what I must, Obi-Wan."
    "If you just follow the code, you would be on the Council. They will not go along with you this time."
    Qui Gon placed his hand on Obi-Wan's shoulder and said "You still have much to learn, my young apprentice."
    Obi-Wan gazed out across the surrounding skyscrapers. "What if the boy decides he wants to be with his mother?"
    "That would be Anakin's choice," Qui-Gon said. "However, I've already taken a step to help his mother. I've arranged for a courier to go to Tatooine and deliver a Tobal lens to Shmi Skywalker."
    "A Tobal lens?" Obi-Wan said. "You mean the crystal used to convert heat to light, the type used to power Renatta photon drives?"
    Qui-Gon nodded. "The Toyarian who owns Shmi won't accept Republic credits, and he would be suspicious, to say the least, if Shmi suddenly had any large amount of currency to buy her freedom. However, I believe that if Shmi acquired an item such as a Tobal lens, she would recognize its value as a bargaining chip."
    Obi-Wan shook his head. "You can be most baffling, Master."
    Qui-Gon shrugged. "As I said, you have much to learn."
  22. Loupgarou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    Drush, Qui Gon is a flawed character in exactly the way that would have him try to free Shmi even if it screwed up the larger mission. To make a flawed character does not mean to make a character who just acts out-of-character on occasion to add false 'depth'. Qui Gon follows his metaphorical heart so much more than other jedi and because of this it's arguably inconsistent for him to not even mention a desire to free Shmi.
  23. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    This is a pretty interesting answer, even if it wasn't in the movies. Makes one really wonder what would have happened if Qui-Gon survived. He seems open to the idea of Anakin being with his mother, but I don't see Qui-Gon giving up on Anakin or his potential. Would he have left the Jedi Order and taken an Old Ben Kenobi role with Anakin should he have chosen to be close to his mother? hmmmmmm
    Iron_lord likes this.
  24. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    This could have easily been included in the dialogue of the movie. This would have just added to Jinn's character and showed his authority as a Jedi Knight.
  25. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Not at the expense of Darth Vader.
    Why would Skywalker ever want to leave the Jedi Order, if they already behaved like Sith?
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