Why didn't Qui-Gon just TAKE Shmi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth Valkyrus, Jun 10, 2013.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the Episode I Adventures comics (showing what characters were up to "between scenes" in the movie) Watto hires muggers to threaten Qui-Gon and warn him not to take Anakin off Tatooine.

    It doesn't work.

    Qui-Gon: "What happened to your goons was nothing compared with what'll happen to you if I tell the Hutts how you tried to get out of a bet! And so help me, if you don't take care of Shmi Skywalker ..."
    Watto: "The boy is free! Good riddance to the both of you, for all I care!"
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  2. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    A far cry from threatening the Toydarian with death...

    On second thought:
    Its not as if the Hutts don't have something worse than that in a pit somewhere.:p
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Feb 7, 2014
    Iron_lord likes this.
  3. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Padme is too busy being the queen of Naboo during the 10-year gap. She has too many obligations to her people to have any time to free some slave on another planet and even if she wanted to, she serves the Republic and they don't have jurisdiction on planets in the Outer Rim systems which Tatooine resides in.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  4. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    Good point. Padme would probably raise eyebrows if she said something like, "So...shall we go to a planet not even part of the Republic and free some slave woman no one but me know about?"
  5. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    This argument will never end. He doesn't free Shmi so it doesn't make sense. Then he does free Shmi and still not good enough. What about all the other slaves? Are the jedi just going to let stand by and allow slavery to occur, outside of the republic or not?

    It's an argument that cannot be won except if the jedi were abolitionists and decided to wipe slavery out entirely.

    Everything else is unsatisfactory to a percentage of people.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Feb 9, 2014
  6. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    ....as if this were something that would DRAIN Padme of her time and obligation to her duties. Hell - Padme wouldn't of even had to do go herself (it probably wouldn't have been smart for her to do so since Mos Espa is dangerous). She could have sent a representative to Tatooine with the necessary funds or items that Watto would want if she was so busy that every second of every moment was spent being "queen". Which she wasn't queen by the time AotC rolls around (some other character was queen).

    Plus - Padme wouldn't be doing it in the name of the Republic or whatever nonsense. Jurisdiction has no meaning if she is doing a private act.

    And again - I've already addressed this. The point isn't that Padme and the Jedi Order don't have a good excuse. I'm fine with the myriad of excuses that are presented. The point is that Lucas shouldn't leave plot points up to viewers of the movies to decide on how they were dealt with or if they were addressed at all.
    Last edited by May_The_Force_Be_With_You, Feb 9, 2014
  7. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    Personally, I had assumed that Shmi met Cleigg a few months/a year after TPM. Didn't they have a son around Anakin's age named Owen? Shmi didn't need to be freed because Cleigg got her first, hence she wasn't Watto's anymore, then he must've fallen in love with her, freed her, and sired Owen with her. At that point, if she really wanted to leave Tatooine, they could've found a cheap transport.
  8. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    But the problem is nobody on Naboo knows who Shmi and Watto are except for Padme and if they had reached Tatooine, they wouldn't know who to look for or where to find them. Even if they had, Watto wouldn't accept it out of spite because he'll find out that this person represents the girl who is associated with Qui-Gon. Besides, Shmi was already freed by the time AOTC came about so it would've been pointless for Padme to free her by then.

    Uhhh...Owen is NOT Shmi's son. He was already a teenager by the time his father freed herwhich makes him 5 or 6 years older than Anakin.
  9. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Ok...I am not totally disagreeing with you. I understand that there is a whole litany of reasons why Padme, the Jedi Order, Anakin, Chewbacca, and everyone else in the GFFA did not go back for her. That is not exactly my source of contention. My point was it not being at all addressed in the movie. That's it. I'm sure that Padme had her reasons for not helping the woman that sheltered them in her home when she had no reason to. A line or two explaining what happened to Shmi would have sufficed. And before anyone says "Oh what? You need everything explained to you?" YES. Major things? Yes. Shmi is not akin to "what happened to Qui-Gon's lightsaber?" or "What happened to Sebulba's podracing career?"

    The same way we got a line about what happened to Nute Gunray between the events in TPM and AOTC:

    "It's outrageous, that after four trials in the Supreme Court, Nute Gunray is still the Viceroy of the Trade Federation! I feel the Senate is powerless to resolve this crisis." - Sio Bibble

    In two lines - that did not derail the plot or give needless exposition or take up too much time - I learned that Gunray spent the better part of a decade in trials (showing a fall out of what he did in TPM), but his wealth coupled with the corruption and ineptitude of the Senate got him off the hook and he is now free to torment our heroes (thus showing how he is free to be involved with the Separatists plus the constant assassination attempts against Padme - who he has a vendetta against.) Two lines. That's it.

    Yet we couldn't get that for Shmi? That is my point about the issue of freeing Shmi. That's it.
    Last edited by May_The_Force_Be_With_You, Feb 9, 2014
  10. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    We already have an explanation of what happened to Shmi and it's this:

    WATTO: She's not mine no more. I sold her.
    ANAKIN: You sold her?
    WATTO: Years ago. I'm sorry, Ani but you know business is business. I sold her to a moisture farmer named Lars...at least I think his name was Lars but I heard that he feed her and married her.
    ANAKIN: Do you know where they are now?
    WATTO: Long way from here. Somewhere across Mos Eisley, I think.

    Now granted, Watto didn't say how many years since he sold Shmi to Cliegg Lars but for all we know, it may have happened right after Anakin left Tatooine with Qui-Gon. If Padme had known that Shmi was already freed, then it would explain why she didn't go back for her but if the Jedi Order knew as well, then one must wonder why nobody told Anakin this news?? If it's due to the whole "attachment is forbidden" nonsense, then the Jedi really screwed up. They could've relieved Anakin of his worries for his mother if they had just told him that she was already freed so that he wouldn't react badly to her death or slaughtered the Tuskens who killed her .
    DARTHLINK likes this.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the AoTC novelization, Shmi recalls meeting Cliegg "5 years ago" - in scenes set just before the events of the movie begin.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Shmi wasn't freed by Qui-gon because he didn't have the funds to free her and after he died, the Jedi Order didn't bother since Tatooine was out of their jurisdiction. Padme didn't know that she was still a slave, since she had her own affairs to deal with.
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the TPM novel Obi-Wan says to Anakin:

    "You will see her again. But when you do - you will be a Jedi Knight"

    This might be a hint that Obi-Wan at least has a plan to return to Tatooine with Anakin after Anakin passes the trials.
  14. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    It didn't make much sense, but regardless, it's a lose-lose situation.
  15. WAC-47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Qui Gon didn't really have a lot of morals either. He tried to screw Watto out of a ship part worth 20,000 credits after Watto told him 20,000 Republic credits may as well be bags of sand to him.
    He used the force to get his odds on a gamble with the die roll.

    So he tried to rob him, then he screwed him on the gamble. Not sure why he didn't just rescue the Mom too. There definitely wasn't any code of ethics stopping him.
    I guess she just had to stay for the plot.
  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    He'd have had to coerce Watto into deactivating her explosive implant if he wanted to take her with them.
    DARTHLINK likes this.
  17. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    Or steal the deactivation device himself and figure out how to work that thing.

    Qui-Gon was already pushing the Jedi Codes to the point where it was becoming questionable as to why he's a Jedi at all. Had they included a scene of him stealing the device and taking Shmi with him, then you may as well call Qui-Gon a renegade Jedi, or Han Solo with Force powers and a lightsaber. :p
  18. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    Qui-gon used the Force on the Chance Cube because it was already rigged to come up the color Watto wanted it to be. It'd be like if I used a two-headed coin to win a bet by calling "heads" and you pick "tails". I'd win every time until you wised up and realized I was screwing you. There's no rule in the Jedi Code about gambling. If there is, please show me. Saying that he was breaking the rules, what rules? Are you on the Council?
  19. WAC-47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2014
    What does it say in the Jedi code about stealing valuable items from innocent traders? How is Qui Gon using the Force to screw a shop owner out of a very expensive hyper-drive part any different than what a Sith might have done?
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Sith Lord would have just killed Watto. The Jedi Knight just made a wager and made sure that Watto didn't screw him out of the deal. All he did was play upon Watto's greed and turned it against him. He didn't steal Anakin.

    WATTO: "So, you supply the Pod and the entry fee; I supply the boy. We split the winnings fifty-fifty, I think."

    QUI-GON: "Fifty-fifty!?! If it's going to be fifty-fifty, I suggest you front the cash for the entry. If we win, you keep all the winnings, minus the cost of the parts I need...If we lose, you keep my ship."

    That's hardly stealing. What happened next was Watto's fault because he got greedy. In fact, Qui-gon knows it was a fair bet.

    WATTO: "You can't have him! It wasn't a fair bet!"

    QUI-GON: "Would you like to discuss it with the Hutts...I'm sure they can settle this."

    Meaning that Jabba would have ruled in favor of Qui-gon because of Watto's greed. Just because Qui-gon prevented Watto from cheating first is hardly cheating. There's a reason the coin toss is done by a third party and not by the players. There's a reason that casinos frown upon cheaters and why there are gaming commissioners who make sure that gambling establishments aren't cheating the players.
  21. Master Mini 907 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2013
    star 3
    Because he can't abuse his power as a Jedi
  22. shoney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2006
    star 1
    I like the way the OP of this thread thinks. I started this exact same thread about 5 years ago, and I still say Qui-Gon should have just taken her.
  23. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Just out of curiosity - how would he have been able to do that, though?
  24. shoney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2006
    star 1
    Well just take her, walk to your ship and fly away. Who could stop two Jedi from stealing a slave, Watto? I don't think they would have too much trouble taking her, the question is should they have taken her?
  25. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    True that Watto couldn't do anything, but as others pointed out - she had that transmitter in her body. If he just walked out with her - presumably at some distance from Watto or Mos Espa - she would have blown up. Even if you argue that Qui-Gon could have forced the deactivation device to her transmitter out of Watto - there might have been a fear that as soon as Qui-Gon had Shmi that Watto would have begged the Hutts to go after them. Which may endanger Anakin, Shmi, Padme, and everyone on the ship.

    I think that if the Jedi Mind Trick HAD worked on Watto? I wouldn't be surprised if Qui-Gon would have done that to gain both of their freedom.
Moderators: Bazinga'd