PT Why didn't Qui Gon not take other options on Tatooine?

Why did Master Qui Gon Jinn not take the following options on Tatooine?

1. Call the Jedi Temple for help? In AOTC, both Obi Wan and Anakin transmit directly to Coruscant, why is it not possible in TPM? It seems unlikely it would be a great risk of a "transmission trace". In that case, they could simply transmit whilst in spaceflight and then go and land somewhere else, speaking in code in case they were being monitored.
2. Attempt to search other dealers for the required parts?
3. Attempt to barter for other items in Mos Eisley using whatever valuables on the ship and then proceed to deal with Watto?
4. Take the parts by force in a night time raid on Watto's shop. The Jedi are a formidable force alone, otherwise take some of the Naboo officers with you.
5. Distract Watto in daylight and have a second Jedi/accomplice steal the parts.
6. Kill Watto using your lightsaber and make a break for it with the parts.
7. Steal the parts under cover of darkness and leave Watto some other valuables to compensate him.
8. Sell the Naboo ship and purchase another ship or way off planet back to Coruscant. Use the new ship to make contact with the Temple and call for help.
9. Steal another ship from a smuggler or crime lord/slaver.

 

Maybe because the writer thought what they did do was grey enough morally? Maybe because they pretty much established that contact was unwise/not likely? Something to consider is location. They are on the backwater of backwaters.

 

I think Valorum wanted to keep the Jedi involvement a secret, which is why he sent only Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

Possible, but Watto said that no other dealer had what they wanted. In his words, "And no one else has [the parts?], I can promise you that!"

Whose to say they would accept whatever they're bartering? "Yes, random old guy, I would love to have all these rich clothes that look to be from another planet entirely." Besides, I think they say it in the movie, whatever they've got won't even come close to netting them the amount required to get the parts.

That sounds very un-Jedi, and I doubt the Naboo officers would want to do anything that'll make the Hutts furious.

The Jedi Code forbids stealing.

*ahem* The Jedi do not murder people! Qui-Gon may play loose with the Code, but he's not a Dark Jedi or a Sith Lord.

You're asking Qui-Gon to do something un-Jedi. This is something he knows he cannot do. All these points are, of course, ignoring the fact that if the Naboo pilots tried any of this, the Hutts would find out and they would be furious. They're trying to hide, not start an interplanetary war between Tatooine and the Republic.

Not a good idea. What if there's no one on Tatooine that would be willing to ship them off back to Coruscant? The risk far outweighs this choice. The risk, you might ask? Oh, I don't know, maybe having the Queen of Naboo stranded on a desert planet controlled by the Hutts?

Stealing and murder is not only an un-Jedi act, it's basically asking for a headache the Republic doesn't want. The Hutts would demand to know why the Jedi and officers from a planet part of the Republic are running around doing criminal acts on their planet.

 

Liked cubman987 said Qui-Gon doesn't want any transmissions being intercepted by the trade federation and Jedi don't needless kill others and most of what you have listed are things that the Sith do not the Jedi.


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In order for the story to work out, Jinn needed to do what he did. It worked out for the movies.

This ^

 

Liam Neeson doesn't like things getting "taken".

Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan that "it's too dangerous to call for help". He also suspects they're being baited to make a transmission so that they may be traced.

Your other points above:

i) In AOTC, neither Anakin nor Obi-Wan are quite as defenceless as Qui-Gon and co. are in TPM, stuck on Tatooine, where a disturbance in the Force is felt by Qui-Gon as soon as they've landed, prompting him to instruct his padawan, "don't let them send any transmissions", even before the issue of "bait" is explicitly brought up. Qui-Gon knows their situation is perilous and won't take that particular risk.

ii) a) I can't imagine it making a difference whether they're on the ground or in spaceflight. Plus, we're told the ship has taken damage, and the hyperdrive generator seems burned out by the time they land. Not that they need the generator to make local spaceflight (i.e., within the same system), per se, but it probably complicates things a whole lot. Qui-Gon also mentions acquiring "essential parts" after the race victory. It seems, then, once the queen's ship was grounded, it could only stay grounded until those replacement parts had been fitted. Think of a plane making an emergency landing. Indeed, when they're discussing where to go, before settling on Tatooine as their destination, Qui-Gon even says, "we'll have to land somewhere to refuel and repair the ship." Two essential objectives to getting the ship flight-worthy again, not just one. The hyperdrive is, in fact, conflated with being the ship's primary power source. As Qui-Gon pointedly tells his apprentice, "a ship without a power supply isn't going to get us anywhere".

b) Yeah, okay -- why not circle near Tatooine and transmit before they land, you ask? I think they were really struggling for power at that point and didn't want to think about transmitting in that very instance. Plus...

iii) I can't see why them all zooming around in spaceflight for a bit would enable them to dodge the connection trace problem. The main issue seems to be the danger of them attempting communication anywhere outside the "safe" haven of Coruscant -- the very place they're ultimately trying to reach.

WATTO: And no-one else has a T-14 hyperdrive generator, I promise you that!

Rightly or wrongly, it seems that Qui-Gon momentarily accepted defeat and took Watto at his word.

QUI-GON: And you're sure there's nothing left on board?
OBI-WAN: A few containers of supplies, the Queen's wardrobe, maybe. But not enough for you to barter with, not in the amounts you're talking about.

Against Jedi ethics.

See above.

And also the fact that the hyperdrive generator alone is pretty massive and can't just be stuffed in Obi-Wan's pocket.

I never saw a getaway van, either. Just slow, camel-like eopies.

See above, twice over.

See above, thrice over.

Selling the ship opens up a whole other can of worms. They "don't want to attract attention", per Qui-Gon's words, and that's why they land and remain on the outskirts. I know some people have taken this to mean that Qui-Gon then contradicts himself by bringing Jar Jar with him into Mos Espa, but he was referring more to the ship than anything else (and as for that misreading: as a quirky alien, Jar Jar probably helps them blend in more than stand out).

It's not like they can just do a thing like sell the ship with no consequences. They're on the edge of a seedy space port, with no backup, no help, and they're not sure if there's anyone there they can really trust. Attempting to sell or trade in a luxurious ship like that has difficulties of its own -- and the ship was, after all, lacking a working hyperdrive generator, and which Watto comments on as being so heinously expensive that, in his own words, they "might as well buy a new ship; it would be cheaper, I think".

They're really quite stuck for options. The Republic also seems quite hated on Tatooine, and I'm sure they wouldn't want to be running afoul of a dodgy trader or the Hutts or anyone with a grudge. One might think, actually, post-blockade, that the Jedi had had enough of "trading" / "negotiating" for a few days!

Again, against Jedi ethics, and again, a rather risky proposition anyway, given that Tatooine "is controlled by the Hutts".

EDIT: cubman987 and DARTHLINK The Expanded Edition.

 

Anakin contacts Coruscant in AOTC though? From Tatooine, and from an even more remote part!

 

True, but the mission was to get the Queen to Coruscant. Not the whole crew. The rest could have held out on Tatooine with Obi Wan protecting them whilst Qui Gon and say Panaka and a pilot take the Queen on a small ship they purchased to the capital. Qui Gon then sends a Jedi ship to go and collect the others.

In terms of stealing, I meant harmlessly disarming a few gangsters and borrowing their ship. The Jedi could return it later on.

 

I was hoping someone would pick that up!

 

The point is to simply get a small ship, even a rustbucket to get the Queen and one or two bodyguards to Coruscant. The Naboo ship seems to impress Watto enough to make a deal over the Podrace. The remaining crew can be protected by Obi Wan on the outskirts. Qui Gon could take the Queen and a few others on a small ship to the capital quickly.

The sense of urgency/timing seems to disappear when on Tatooine. Qui Gon could easily have the Jedi Temple dispatch a transport ship to collect the others when they arrived on Coruscant.

I don't see why they couldn't have sent a quick burst Jedi 913 to the Temple. Obi Wan and Anakin are seen contacting the Temple from the Outer Rim in AOTC. Qui Gon could have sent a message whilst in space and then travelled to Tatooine. They could have spoken in code in case there was any eavesdropping of communications.

 

1. The Sith were able to find them without making contact to Naboo. So it would be just as dangerous contacting the Jedi Temple.

2. Qui-gon sensed the truth in Watto's admission that he was the only one who had the necessary parts to get them going.

3. There was nothing of value to trade except clothes and as Obi-wan said, not even that is worth much to a desert world.

4 and 5. Qui-gon is not a thief.

6. Qui-gon is not a Sith Lord and Jedi do not kill in cold blood.

7. Qui-gon is not a thief.

8. The ship would not be enough to purchase another ship, especially with a damaged hyperdrive.

9. Qui-gon is not a thief.

He was told by Obi-wan to do so. As it is, Anakin winds up going to Geonosis so he saves the Confederacy the trouble of finding them.

 

I know, good points. It would be against the Jedi code to steal.

Having said that, in AOTC, Anakin and Padme seem to land at a spaceport in the same city. I mean they arrive in a shiny sleek Naboo cruise ship in all its glory in broad daylight in the same city.

There must have been some transport vessel for which they could have hired to take just a few passengers.

 

Very good points. But seriously, would it have given the Trade Federation much of an advantage if they had contacted the Jedi Council directly for help?

The Temple would have sent Jedi reinforcements by ship. If the TF were monitoring, it is unlikely they would risk sending battle droids to Tatooine and appear to be aggressors.

 

Tatooine and Naboo are closer than Coruscant is. That's enough time for Nute to send some droids to overwhelm the Jedi and recover the queen. The Jedi are also hiding from the Hutts who would jump at the opportunity to claim Padme and her handmaidens as slaves.

That's different. Dorme has stayed on Coruscant to pose as Padme, thus drawing all attention on her should Jango show up again. On Tatooine, they're safe from Jango so long as they don't give away anything.

Registered transport, but they all stick out like sore thumbs. There's a reason why Padme and Anakin dressed as they did going to Naboo. Only Qui-gon and Padme have disguises that work like that, but even then, she's not going to take off without her people.

 

Who says they can even afford a rustbucket? The Queen's ship may look nice and shiny and expensive, but it's probably worth next to nothing without its extremely rare hyperdrive. The ship impresses Watto because Watto happens to have the extremely rare hyperdrive required to make the ship anything other than a pretty, oversized doorstop.

I'm sure a J-Type Nubian starship with a hyperdrive is a valuable commodity when it's decked out with all the parts it needs, but without those it's next to worthless. The tramps and merchants who live in Mos Espa, on a planet wracked by sandstorms, have no need for a useless chrome spaceship that's more of a status symbol than anything else. The only people who'd consider buying the ship for cheap then decking it out with an expensive hyperdrive later are exactly the kinds of people Qui-Gon and company need to avoid if they want to remain hidden. There's a reason they decided to only go into the smaller shops.

 

Very solid observation there. We see what happens to Padme's daughter under Jabba in ROTJ.

Yeah. As cubman987 said, we can't really presume there was another ship even available, let alone that they could have afforded to procure it.

I like that description you just gave of the Queen's ship. The tremendous worth of the hyperdrive snuggled deeply within, and the relative low value of the ship, its "outer" housing, is a symbolic expression of a major saga theme, also articulated by an early line of Jar Jar's: "Better dead here than dead in da core! Ye gods, what is mesa sayin?!"

Exactly. A gleaming cruiser from a garden planet is visually at odds with the rough-and-ready world of a dust bowl whose desert mesas are only "sparsely populated" by a "few" space ports, "some indigenous tribes and scavengers", and "moisture farms for the most part". Qui-Gon even says that space ports like the one they're entering are "havens for those who those that don't wish to be found". A ship like the queen's, while sleek enough to perhaps take you some place at speed, would draw far too much attention to itself, for any and all concerned.

That sort of visual and tonal tension between the "posh" worlds of the Republic and a harsh, lawless world like Tatooine is something I love about TPM, and for the way it makes Padme, and then Anakin, fish out of water, the pair of them, with Jar Jar shading the two somewhat literally. Qui-Gon, in contrast, cuts a sort of middle path, as nowhere is truly his home, while everywhere kind of is. He's a good audience guide, but he's not perfect and he doesn't know everything. I've said before that TPM is very nearly the "National Geographic" version of Star Wars -- very rich in visual detail, very bold, very scenic .... with how many real-world design elements and cultural motifs?

And that it also has a strong inner story logic -- despite numerous assertions to the contrary -- which is, for me, a given, makes me admire and enjoy it more. Quite how it has such solid logic, while also working symbolically, as a compelling work of fantasy art, setting up an entire suite of movies with an intense storyline of tragedy and redemption, sort of blows my mind.

 

I guess, but in AOTC, things make sense, but in TPM, watching it after seeing AOTC, and TPM has too many convieniences.

Are you saying that despite Anakin and Padme turning up in a shiny sleek cruiser, they maintained a low profile? What was wrong with doing that in TPM then? Would Jabba have taken the handmaidens and made them all wear sexy slave outfits?

 

That's a good point. How long would they have waited though before having to steal/stow away aboard a ship?

 

That is a very good point. So Jabba may have made Padme and her handmaidens all wear sexy slave outfits.... what was the question again?

I suppose so, but it must have been worth something! What is more important, the ship or getting off the planet with the Queen alive?

Yes I did like how TPM articulated what was important to different people across the galaxy. Sort of built up to the CIS movement by AOTC.

The only thing is that Anakin and Padme land in a gleaming cruiser right in the docking port in AOTC. Does this not also attract attention?

Yes, good points, TPM really gave us a flavor of the wider galaxy and society.

Good point. The Star Wars saga is phenomenal. The only thing is I find TPM has a few plot holes. It seems that some things are done unnaturally. The sense of urgency seems to disappear once they land on Tatooine.[/quote]

 

LOL! That reminds me of a fun fan fiction version of TPM I once read involving Padme and her hot and steamy, willing and ready handmaidens.

I'm suddenly having mental blocks myself. What's this thread about again?

You've got me and The_Phantom_Calamari confused on this one. There would be one or two difficulties involved with acquiring a new ship -- touched on before.

I get your point, though. I think it's also tough, in part, because of how keen everyone on Tatooine seems to keep to their own affairs, and to avoid -- one imagines -- going anywhere near the capital planet of the Republic.

I know that Obi-Wan does get involved with Han for a ride out of Mos Eisley, but things are even more pressing then, and few there seem (again) to have much love for the Empire, formerly the Republic. Also, and I think this may have been what motivated Lucas to put Chewbacca in ROTS, Obi-Wan is first seen talking to Chewie, before Han. That can't be insignificant.

On the other hand, the Empire -- like any good regime -- does use informers and spies to get some of its information. When Luke and Obi-Wan are nearing the docking bay, a robed alien guy with a long snout helps lead a company of stormtroopers straight to them. This gives you some sense of what treacherous places Tatooine's space ports can be. Another reason, perhaps, that Qui-Gon doesn't really explore the option of buying another ship.

Huh? Well, yes. But what I meant to indicate was that this theme connects onto a broader spiritual theme of the series regarding self-realization and redemption. The "core" of Vader is really Anakin -- he is the "hyperdrive" of Darth Vader, and Vader is the shell.

In THX, Duvall's character is advised to turn back on the cusp of his escape, with a loudspeaker warning him "you cannot survive outside the city shell". Vader dies when the "Anakin" inside of him overthrows Palpatine, and Anakin is then reborn.

Well, they have a somewhat skimpier ship, and there's no-one left aboard. It's not a "royal" ship -- more like a personal transport.

As has been brought up, Corde remained on Coruscant to distract a second assassin, should a fresh attempt be made, while Obi-Wan went looking for the bounty hunter.

Thank you. I completely agree.

It does ebb away -- for a while, anyway. It is still punctuated, however, by worried looks, local communications between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in which they discuss how to proceed (and briefly the fate of Naboo), and a podrace which Anakin pledges to enter so they can afford the parts and leave.

It's good, to me, that the film slows down for a while. The opening act is very chop-chop-chop. I like the slower, more stately pacing on Tatooine. Adds a lot of charm and humanity to the movie, in my opinion.

 

That quote was actually from me, not Cryogenic.

Anyway, of course the ship was worth something. But without a hyperdrive it probably wasn't worth enough to buy any ship that did have a hyperdrive--not even at the cheapest level.

And that's assuming there were even any affordable ships for sale, which is not necessarily guaranteed, as others have pointed out. Mos Espa's a spaceport, but that doesn't mean it has a thriving spaceship market. I live in a small independent city with an airport. But I wouldn't expect to find someone living here who'd be willing to on-the-spot trade me their fully functional airplane in exchange for my broken-down one that'll cost a fortune to get flying again--even if it's a nice airplane in all other respects. Maybe I could find someone eventually, but it might take a while.

 

LOL! That reminds me of a fun fan fiction version of TPM I once read involving Padme and her hot and steamy, willing and ready handmaidens.

I'm suddenly having mental blocks myself. What's this thread about again?

[/quote]

Agreed. Padme and her hot handmaidens....yes....sorry I can't remember what the question was either!

I think that should be one of the spin off films... you know just to be clear that there was absolutely no alternative to the course of action taken in TPM. For erm.. completing the story purposes of course.

Star Wars: The Handmaidens Break Free