Why didnt the empire fall after ANH ?

when the first DS was destroyed , it seems like it didnt affect the empire at all , by ESB it seems like the empire was stronger then it was in ANH . tarkin said that the imperial senate had been dissolved and that local systems would stay inline because of their fear of the death star . when the first ds was destroyed , I would have thought that they lost alot of their power , they lost alot of soldiers , their was no super star destroyer built yet , so what stopped systems from coming together and overthrowing the empire ?

 

The Emperor, Darth Vader, and the 25,000 Star Destroyers roaming the galaxy may have had something to do with it.

 

I have never really bought the whole "25,000 Star Destroyers" stuff from the EU. There is really nothing to suggest that after ROTJ the Empire wasn't beaten (this COULD have been reinforced by on-camera evidence of Imperial ships being captured or destroyed, though).

I think the Empire WAS losing control by the time of ESB. Notice how there is a rebel fleet at the end of ESB. Where did that come from? Wasn't in ANH. More star systems were rebelling and joining the Alliance. It's no coincidence that by the time of ROTJ, there are all these new aliens (Nien Nunb and his people, Prune Faces, Mon Calamari), and new ships (B-Wing and A-Wing fighters whose pilots all have distinct uniforms, which to me says they are fighter squadrons from worlds who threw their entire forces into the Alliance) comprising a much larger fleet. The Alliance was steadily growing.

Palpatine was hoping to re-take control with the Second Death Star, after he used it to wipe out the rebel fleet. Thanks to Palpy's arrogance, assistance from the Ewoks, the rebel fleet rising to the occassion, the courage of Luke, and the cleverness of Lando, Leia, and Han, the Emperor's plan never saw fruition.

 

The Death Star had been kept secret from the Senate and from most of the systems in the Empire. The idea was to use it as an instrument of fear against planets that might be inclined to rebel, but they would have to be careful not to incite more widespread resentment and dissent as a result of its use.

After Alderaan was destroyed, it would serve the Empire's purposes to have the truth (of how it was destroyed) spread through underground channels and rumors to other systems, while maintaining an official cover that it was a comet, meteor collission, or some other "natural" disaster that obliterated the planet. This would allow the Empire to retain control and avoid widespread breakdown of order, while also suppressing any real resistance. The fact that the Death Star itself had been destroyed actually helps them maintain this cover story that it was a natural disaster.

Imagine that you are an average resident of some planet in the Empire. You have a mild, passive, dislike of the Empire, but not enough to make you want to rock the boat or engage in any active resistance. You'd rather just sit tight, keep your head down, and try to get by. You turn on the news one morning and see that Alderaan has been destroyed in a freak collision with a meteor or planetoid. Meanwhile there are rumors that the Empire has a massive battle station that is capable of destroying a planet, and that is how Alderaan was destroyed. The Empire formally denies this. Now, in this situation, you might think the "rumor-mongers" are conspiracy theorists, with a fanciful sinister explanation for the Alderaan disaster. But even if you partially believe the rumors, you know for sure that the Empire has agents everywhere and the risks of active rebellion are swift and severe.

Only a small percentage of people would be moved to rebel based upon the destruction of the DS, but this number would grow over time as a result of the disbanding of the Senate, and the cumulative effect of months of abuses by the regional governors who now had direct control over their territories. This resistance would be dispersed, and would take a couple of years to coalesce into the Alliance that we see in ROTJ.

 

I thought the Empire's wanton act of destroying Alderaan rallied more systems to the Alliance's cause. But the massive Navy (as DS615 alluded to) held things in line.

 

After the first DS was destroyed, Vader and The Emperor were still in control. Since they were destroyed with the second one, there was no longer a manipulative Sith lord controlling everyone.

Ding-dong, the Emperor's dead.

 

The whole empire was not comprised in just that Death Star. All of Coruscant and probably thousands of other planets/systems were loaded with the Empires troops and ships etc...Not to mention that the Emporer was still alive and so was Vader. In ROTJ, when the Emporer was killed, there was no more stronghold to keep control and all of the masses could rebel and imperial troops were unable to stop the uproar. Not to mention that very little people knew about DS I o create an uproar. But by ROTJ again, everyone knew about the Attack on the Empire and people had word to strike back etc.

 

24 SDs were in RotJ guys. he Empire covers thousands of systems.

Accross many many light years. 26,000 SDs were but a bare minimum required to keep things in line.

 

Exactly. No way were the Star Destroyers we see in the movies all of them in the Empires possession. They couldn't POSSIBLY hold an entire galaxy filled with hundereds of thousands of systems with less than a hundered major capital Ships. 25,000 Star Destroyers actually seems a somewhat small number.

 

Yeah, there are probably more than 25,000 inhabited systems within the Empire.

Notice how there is a rebel fleet at the end of ESB. Where did that come from?

Did you notice how ragtag the Rebel Fleet is? There are ships from various members and sympathetic shipbuilders.

It's no coincidence that by the time of ROTJ, there are all these new aliens (Nien Nunb and his people, Prune Faces, Mon Calamari)...

1. Effects and make-up improved by 1982, so it was more viable to include more aliens.
2. Of course the Rebels gained new members; most rebel groups with a somewhat-popular cause do.

Palpatine was hoping to re-take control with the Second Death Star, after he used it to wipe out the rebel fleet.

No, he wanted to wipe-out what he saw as a nuisance. He had a relatively small force of ships guarding the DSII mostly because of his arrogance; hell, looking at the Rebel Fleet, I would have his confidence.

 

I think the DSII was also a way to spite the "mighty" Imperial Fleet, as despite vastly outnumbering the Rebel, it never could destroy it. The trap at Endor was intended to wipe out the core of the Alliance's fleet and personnel.

 

the death star was only palaptines toy. his real power was in his total political and economic control.

the loss of this battle station is almost insignifigant when you consider the overwhelming stranglehold palpatines institution had over the GFFA.

 

Comet1440 wrote: "Tarkin said that the imperial senate had been dissolved and that local systems would stay inline because of their fear of the death star /"

Very good point. The logic of the 1977 SW film suggests that the Empire was destroyed when Luke destroyed the Death Star. Otherwise...


Fosh-bantus88 wrote: "the loss of this battle station is almost insignifigant when you consider the overwhelming stranglehold palpatines institution had over the GFFA."

This takes most of the beauty out of the triumph of Luke and the Alliance at the end of the 1977 SW film. It rips the guts right out of it.

 

The reason the Empire didn't fall is that the DS was destroyed far fom the heart of it, in the middle, outer rim.

It was a setback, but the empire still held sway in the core and middle worlds.

This would be like the roman empire losing a huge battle in the north or east....bad, but not crushing.

 

I think the destruction of the DS certainly started the ball rolling, as a focal point for all the various rebels around the galaxy.

But even with the destruction of that and the DS2, the Empire could've still held on to power...the problem of course is that the Emperor dies with the DS2.

He puts a big gamble on the board by putting himself in the firing line, and it backfires.

 

He puts a big gamble on the board by putting himself in the firing line, and it backfires.

Stupid Ewoks.

 

Now that I think about it...ROTJ painted the final battle as a great revolution; after Endor fell, Coruscant fell. I wouldn't think the Rebels would take complete control; but instead their would be power struggles like when the USSR broke up.

No way of knowing though; and I dare not consult the EU books.

 

Where are you people getting these absurd ideas? Have you all succumbed to rebel propoganda? The Empire did not fall at Yavin, nor at Endor. These were simply temporary setbacks, and did not affect the Empire's dominance over the galaxy. Also, I want to clear up something: the Emperor did not die at Endor. That is simply a viscous rumor spread by rebel terrorists and their sympathisers.

 

lol Admiral

 

What, you think I'm trying to be funny? This is a serious business.

 

This would be like the roman empire losing a huge battle in the north or east....bad, but not crushing.

Ohhh, don't use that as an example. The crushing defeat of the Roman legions in the forests of Germany by a band of "barbarians" was the final straw for the empire. It lead to the complete downfall of the empire.
Which, now that I write this, I see draws a very close parallel to SW.

 

>>This takes most of the beauty out of the triumph of Luke and the Alliance at the end of the 1977 SW film. It rips the guts right out of it.<<

So does the fact that the Empire was still in full force during ESB and ROTJ. The Roman Empire analogy may have its flaws, but there's still truth to it. You're not going to bring down the United States by blowing up one of our bases, and we're nowhere near as large as the Empire.

Besides, why wouldn't the Rebels have a celebration after bringing down the death star? Was it insignificant ultimately? Yeah, sure. But come on, this was the first major battle they won. What were they supposed to do at the end of ANH? Sulk?




»Who dares wins«

 

I would point out that the empire maintained control before the Death Star was built so it would obviously be able to keep control afterwards. The one officer in the board room whose name escapes me made a foolish error not distinguishing betwene the senate and the government. Considerin Palpatine had concentrated all the power into his own hands, the entire government would only nominally be affected by the dissolution of the senate. While the death star would have made the control even firmer, with governmental institutions intact and supporting the Emperor and an unsurpassed military he'd still be able to mantain control.

Meanwhile the destruction of the Death Star did indeed give the Rebellion an added morale boost and PR value.

 

I think because they did not kill the Emperor that is why the Empire did not fall after ANH as some others have said. Remember in Return of the Jedi when the Rebal Leader Monmontha says " But most important of all we have learned that the Emperor is personnally overseeing the final construction of the Death Star "

This high Rebal leader seemed to believe that killing the Emperor was far more important then the fact that we can destroy the Death Star. If the Emperor had not come to the Death Star the Rebals would not have defeated the Empire by blowing up the Death Star.

Yoda said after Luke Leia was the only hope. But hope for what ? Not destroying the Death Star. Han and Lando could have very easy pulled that off without help from Leia or Luke I bet. I think Yoda and Ben meant they where hope for either destoying the Emporer or dealing with Anakin perhaps by trying to turn Anakin Skywalker back.

If Luke had failed by either dying or turning to the Dark Side and the Emperor survived , even with the Death Star 2 Destroyed the Empire would still exist. The Emperor could have very easy constructed a New Death Star and another and another and another I bet. Look how a second one came back so quick. The only threat he would have had would be Little Leia. No amount of Rebal Forces could have stopped him.

Only Leia could stop him. So he would either try to destroy her before she grew more powerful or try to turn her to the Dark Side. Yes I believe the Emperor even if he did not know Leia was this sister Vadar was talking about right then I think very soon he could put two and two together. Especially with either the Father or the brother on his side.

George Lucas said Anakin brought balance to the Force in Return of the Jedi. That was because Luke saved Anakin. So the Death Star blowing up had nothing to do with the Rebals victory. I am sure if Vadar not let the Emperor kill Luke that the Emperor would have discovered that the Death Star is soon to be destroyed I better get out. Luke and Vadar are the ones who defeated the Empire.

 

Because Vader and Emperor were still alive, and those two are the seed of al evil.