main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

CT Why didn't the ghost Obi-Wan train Luke?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by gobalicious, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. gobalicious

    gobalicious Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Obi-Wan can communicate telepathically with Luke and appear to him as a ghost. Isn't this enough for him to keep training Luke? Why does he only communicate with Luke only two more times? Is there some sort of limit to how much you can communicate with the living as a Force ghost? Does he have more important things to be doing in the afterlife? Obi-Wan's promise of "becoming more powerful than you can possibly imagine" seems like a big letdown since he hardly uses his powers over death afterwards. In reality, I guess we were limited by Alec Guinness's desire to have a small involvement with sequels to Star Wars.

    Speaking of ghosts, did Luke tell Leia, Han, etc that he had visions and heard voices of a dead man? He would seem pretty dang crazy, especially with Force skepticism so rampant those days.
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  2. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Guinness was actually fairly pissy about Lucas killing him off in ANH; Obi-Wan was in the shooting script as commanding the Battle Of Yavin.

    I think the main reason is to allow Luke-and Hamill-space to be the hero. Obi-Wan completely overshadowed Luke until the very end of ANH and IMO having an omniscient Force Ghost hovering over Luke's every action would have robbed the next two films of alot of drama & suspense.
     
    Darth kRud likes this.
  3. Pete_Seyk

    Pete_Seyk Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2004
    So, can Force Ghosts appear to those who are not Jedi?
     
  4. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    No, they can't.
     
  5. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2005
    I always assumed that crossing back over into the land of the living wasn't an easy task that could be done at any time.
     
    DARTHSHAME likes this.
  6. jc1138

    jc1138 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2004
    This, IMO. Probably also has to do with the "will of the force," which would not be Obi-Wan holding Luke's hand through the entire Galactic Civil War.
     
  7. WhiskeyGold

    WhiskeyGold Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2001
    Yes, Luke was NOT a jedi when he saw Ben's Ghost on Hoth, or even with Yoda during Empire
    He also heard his voice, not a ghost i guess, in ANH.
     
  8. Aaronaman

    Aaronaman Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2013
    He may not have been a fully trained Jedi but taking into account his father was the chosen one and the fact that his training was especially short I think it's safe to say that Luke is the exception and not the rule.

    Only Jedi can see force ghosts.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Because, from his perspective, he failed with Anakin- and so he can't trust himself to train Luke as well.
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  10. CaptainHamYoyo

    CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2011
    But he did start training Luke, and would've continued had he survived the escape from the Death Star. Maybe both would've travelled to Dagobah, and Ben and Yoda would oversee Luke's training.
     
  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I suspect that, past a certain point, he'd have said "Yoda needs to carry on from here" as well as wanting to suss out Luke's character, a bit at a time, before inducting him into the deeper levels of Force knowledge.
     
    Andy Wylde and CaptainHamYoyo like this.
  12. natureboy76

    natureboy76 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2009
    I always assumed that force ghosts only appeared rarely or it took great effort to appear. Also, I assume they don't last forever---eventually permanently fading into the force.
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Depends who's writing, but Timothy Zahn had Obi-Wan "pass on from this world to what lies beyond" at the start of The Thrawn Trilogy.
     
  14. FARK2005

    FARK2005 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I always imagined he trained Luke that way between ANH and ESB – how else would Luke have learned to use the Force to retrieve his lightsaber in the cave on Hoth..?

    But there is only so much you can learn by verbal guidance. Visual and manual guidance would be essential for Jedi-training. This is especially true in relation to the usage of the Force: I doubt Luke would have truly grasped the vast potential for utilizing the Force if he had not witnessed Yoda lift his X-wing from the swamp – such demonstration helped open Luke’s mind for the possibilities.
     
  15. DARTHSHAME

    DARTHSHAME Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Others have already stated my opinion, namely Obi-Wan likely could not spontaneously appear and remain present without great effort or some latency period. Therefore, I think he likely preserved his appearances for when they truly were needed. Accordingly, he could not always be present for training. The simple answer is that Yoda was still available and more experienced in training Jedi. Regarding who are able to see Force ghosts, my opinion is that an individual with Force potential (dare I say enough midi-chlorians) with sufficient skill can probably perceive Force ghosts. I do not think they need to be a Jedi per se.
     
  16. Orochi Oni

    Orochi Oni Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Luke needed to be trained by the best.

    Obi-Wan didn't have much faith in his abilities as a Master after what happened to Anakin. He taught Luke the basics, then handed the reins over to Yoda.
     
    SnakeWesker likes this.
  17. Orochi Oni

    Orochi Oni Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Leia couldn't see the ghosts at the end of ROTJ.
     
  18. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Bit off-topic, but is that actually true? Like so many accounts of the making of the OT, I've heard several different versions:
    - Alec Guinness was furious at Obi-Wan being killed & threatened to leave the production;
    - it was Alec Guinness' idea to kill Obi-Wan, not GL's;
    - he was somewhat surprised, then warmed to the idea.

    I'm going to go with Box #3. I can't imagine a consummate professional like Alec Guinness being so precious about a role in a film he considered to be relative fluff to begin with. Besides, one of the reasons GL killed Obi-Wan off was that he had Scottish Football Association to do after they left the Death Star anyway and just sort of stood around. This way he got a noble death scene instead (and in post they made him even more integral to the destruction of the DS by adding his voice).
     
  19. Drac39

    Drac39 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2002
    It would ruin the mystery of what lies at that other side if Obi-Wan were there all the time. Luke needs to be alone for periods of time to develop as a character.
     
  20. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Yeah, thinking about it I agree with you.
     
  21. DARTHSHAME

    DARTHSHAME Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2003
    I said with sufficient skill. Leia had no training, despite potential
     
  22. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
    The guesses about it taking great effort/whatever to appear physically might be on the right track. Ben only seems to appear to Luke -- at least in ESB -- at points of dire necessity: first, to give him crucial direction in his life, later, as a voice only to argue with Yoda, finally, as a visible being to try and stop Luke from leaving Dagobah. There is some limited in-film support for this, in Obi-Wan's line to Luke during ESB: "If you choose to face Vader, you must do it alone. I cannot interfere." That was probably a line directed to people who would've been asking "How come Obi-Wan can ride Luke's X-Wing during the Trench Run and help him shoot proton torpedoes straight, but he can't help Luke out in a lightsaber duel?" It indicates some limits to what Ben can do.
     
  23. Darth Vader's Chest Plate

    Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    I thought it was to do with the "Jedi" trial, if Obi-Wan had aided him then he wouldn't have become a Jedi.

    Or it would have freaked Vader out big time, "I struck you down........is this why your body vanished?"
     
  24. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
    I don't think it was the Jedi trial. Obi-Wan and Yoda were both pretty insistent that Luke was in no way ready to face Vader; they were both trying to stop him from going to Bespin. I don't see how they could've seen Bespin as a legit Jedi trial for Luke. Yoda was still scolding Luke about it on his deathbed, no less. I headcanoned it that Obi-Wan's a creature of the Force, and trying to intervene in a dispute between two people actively using the Force would've been like a bird trying to fly around in a hurricane.
     
  25. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Where in the film is this rule stated? I would assume a Force Ghost can commune with any Force sensitive not just Jedi. It's apparent throughout the EU.