CT Why didn't Vader sense Leia (in-universe explanation)?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Klingon Padawan, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Well, unless you discount the Jedi Mind Trick. Used by both Obi-Wan and Luke. No Force sensitivity required in the subject to warp someone's mind. Telepathy is a very similar mind-to-mind phenomenon.
    Samuel Vimes likes this.
  2. P.Sam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2011
    star 1
    I agree with some comments here, I am of the opinion that since Leia had no idea she was a force-user and that Vader had no reason to suspect otherwise, he didn't sens anything unusual in her but only a strong resolve. On the other hand, Luke had learned of his abilities from Ben and was able to ''penetrate'' the Force and let it surround him so that's why Vader knew at once it was someone strong in the force. That it was his son.
    Last edited by P.Sam, Apr 6, 2013
  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Vader knew it was someone strong in the force- but no more. Even after doing the research and finding Luke's name and planet- he didn't accept the possibility that Padme's children had survived her death, until the Emperor told him so in TESB. Hence his "how is that possible?!" when told.
  4. P.Sam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2011
    star 1
    He had this feeling in the force that Luke was special and more than a simple force user. He suspected that this could be someone close to him which he didn't know about. Of course the truth of Luke being his son was not easy to swallow and how he never knew anything about it either. He was confused. At least that's the way I interprete it. :)
    Last edited by P.Sam, Apr 6, 2013
  5. Ambervikings91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    The answer for this I think is fairly simple, it isn't explained in the films so any answer is going to somewhat come from the EU. There is no explanation in universe for this.
  6. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan stripped Leia of the Force (like what happened to Ulic Qel-Droma) and that only over time did her Force sensitivity return to her.
  7. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    That sounds very naughty.
  8. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Sigh...there really was no other word to convey the idea.
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, Apr 14, 2013
  9. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1
    Just a thought:
    Obviously her negotiating skills in the senate were powered by her jedi mind control power (without her knowing it). That's why she told such an obvious lie to Vader at the start of ANH expecting him to believe it.
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  10. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 3
    The mantle of the light side of the Force was clouding everything at this time as the dark side was shrouding during the Clone Wars.
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I doubt it. The Force is still out of balance, toward the dark, at that point. IMO the reason Vader doesn't sense Leia is that Force sensing is not necessarily that powerful in general terms. By the time Luke appeared on Vader's radar he had already begun training and was using the Force.
  12. mes520 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 3
    Here's another possibility, I once read a fanfic

    During ROTS, Anakin worries that the Council will sense the baby's presence in the Force. And so through the Force, he makes contact with the baby and is able to hide her Force signature
  13. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    May I offer a couple of ideas?

    First, Leia is Force-sensitive because, as I've said in other threads, everyone is Force-sensitive. It's said outright that the Force is created by life itself, and that it binds living things together. So, everyone has a connection to it, to one degree or another. Some people are better able to tap into it and use it, but no one (in the movies, anyway) is cut off from it.

    As for Leia, Vader might not have sensed her because, as has been previously noted, she wasn't actively using her latent abilities. By comparison, Luke was using his during the Battle of Yavin in order to better fly his ship and target the port. It's like tracking a submarine; you'll miss it if it's running silent, but you'll pick it up if it starts sending out Sonar pings.

    Another possibility is that Vader just plain missed what was in plain sight. He just wasn't expecting Leia to have Jedi potential, so he wasn't looking for it. How often have you looked on your desk for something that you're sure is missing, only to find it right in front of you? Vader thought only Kenobi and maybe Yoda were left, so he just glossed over Leia's traces.

    Over to you...
  14. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    But not everyone is equally Force-sensitive; despite the fact that the Force is generated by all life, not everyone is capable of using the Force in the Jedi way. Luke in ROTJ has the chance to tell Leia that she is Force-sensitive because everyone is; he says something completely different.
  15. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    As I noted, some people have a better connection to the Force or are better able to use it. Luke said the Force was strong in his family, not that it was missing from others. I disagree with the whole idea of non-Jedi not having the Force at all, or the idea that somehow Leia was somehow given a Jedi cloaking device to protect her from Vader.
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  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    He also didn't say that everyone can use the Force. In fact that was never said in the films. If true, one would think it would have been a salient point in his discussion with Leia.

    We don't need a Jedi cloaking device to explain Vader and Leia; sensing of Force potential may simply not be so automatic in nature.
  17. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    But both Ben and Yoda said that everyone is connected to the Force, and that life itself creates it. I still stand by the idea that everyone has some connection to or can be influenced by the Force in one way or another. It's just a question of skill and the willingness to recognize it. And, given the situation at the time, Luke stuck to the main point: Leia has potential, she's his sister, and Vader is their father and could be redeemed.
    Last edited by Kenneth Morgan, Apr 23, 2013
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  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Leia has potential because she's his sister, not because she's just anyone. And all life generating the Force does not mean that everyone has the ability to use the Force, unless you mean in the most rudimentary of ways. I agree that there is probably some level ( however minor ) on which those usually thought of as non-Force-sensitive, those with low midichlorian counts, can be sensitized to it. In the EU there is an example of such a thing when Kit Fisto teaches an exercise to some clones.
  19. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    The two versions, OT and PT, don't really match up. I would say that your interpretation is probably pretty good from an OT point of view.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Apr 23, 2013
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There are no "two versions". Neither trilogy said that anyone could use the Force. The prequels didn't define the Force, and everything said about the Force in the OT is still true in the PT. We are told that all living things have midichlorians, but that is not the same as having enough midichlorians to manipulate the Force.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Apr 23, 2013
  21. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one.
  22. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    I'm a first-generation fan; OT is my default position. Hey, I still find myself thinking that Ewan McGregor played Ben Kenobi in the PT.
  23. darthhelinith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2009
    star 5
    I think it's just he wasn't looking for a force sensitive so didn't find a force sensitive.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    What part are you differing with?

    That neither trilogy said anyone could use the Force?
    That the prequels didn't define the Force?
    That everything said about the Force in the OT is still true in the PT?
    That just having midichlorians does not necessarily equate to having enough midichlorians to manipulate the Force?

    Because those are all true statements.
  25. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    Here's my interpretation of it (based solely on the films, not novelizations or EU). Vader did sense both Luke and Leia, and he sensed that they might be his kids. Having this impression was part of what convinced Vader to come up with the plan to let Luke and Leia escape with the homing device on the Falcon. Vader tells Tarkin that he's letting them escape so that they can track them to the Rebel base on Yavin, but Vader's real motivation is that he wants to open up the opportunity of ruling the galaxy with Luke and Leia. If they had remained on the DS, Tarkin and the other higher ups would have had them executed, and Vader couldn't have protected them without seeming treasonous, so instead he let them go.

    In ANH, we don't see the torture scene of Leia, so maybe Vader went easy on her, or maybe because he's so callous, he did torture her because he knew he had to go through with it to hide the fact that he thought she might be his daughter.

    In ANH, Vader also doesn't sense Luke on the DS b/c he never directly interacts with him and b/c Obi-Wan's presence is blocking his sensing of Luke, or both.

    Also, at the end of ANH, while in his TIE fighter, Vader doesn't sense that Luke is his son just b/c he's distracted in battle, so he can't get a good Force "look" at thim, but he does get a good enough look at him to sense that Luke's force senstive. After the battle, Vader reconsiders what he sensed while in his TIE fighter and realizes he may have sensed his son at that moment. That's what starts him on his search for Luke.

    In ESB, Vader is trying to fool Palpatine in their conversation and he really already knows that Luke is his son. In fact, he's been searching for him behind Palpatine's back.

    In ESB, Vader changes the deal with Lando and tells him to have Leia taken to his ship b/c he still senses that she may be his daughter.

    Finally, in ROTJ, Vader doesn't learn about Leia from reading Luke's mind on the DS2. Instead, he already knew about her, but he simply could sense that Luke was thinking about her at the time, and like Sith tend to do, Vader lies to Luke and pretends that he is learning of Leia for the first time. Why would Vader do this? Because he thinks Luke will feel guilty for having just put his sister in danger with his thoughts, and Vader wants Luke to feel guilty because this will make Luke madder, convincing him to stop hiding, return to the fight, and turn to the dark side.
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