CT Why didn't we see David Prowse's face in ROTJ

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by fl00dsm0k3, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. fl00dsm0k3 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    I was watching ROTJ today and when the scene where Luke took Vader's mask off came on I wondered why we didn't see David Prowse's face instead of Sebastian Shaw.
    Last edited by fl00dsm0k3, Apr 5, 2014
  2. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 5
    Because Prowse is not a dramatic actor. He would likely ruin the scene.
    thejeditraitor likes this.
  3. MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 5
    They needed an ac-TOR for that particular job. I've seen mock ups of him in the scene though and I think he could've looked the part. That voice though...
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    The main issue was that Lucas and Marquand had agreed to hire an actor to play Vader unmasked, as well as having him look older than Prowse was. Prowse 47 when he did ROTJ and Shaw was 77. Not to mention that Prowse has a West County accent which isn't intimidating at all, which is part of the reason his voice was dubbed over in the first place.
  5. DantheJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 5
    Didn't the fact that Prowse also had a tendency to spill secrets about the movies also precluded him from being considered?
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  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Nope. Anakin and Obi-wan were written to be not that far apart in age. There wasn't a sixteen year age difference when the OT was made. Guinness was in his 60's when he made the OT. Prowse's actions is largely why Bob Anderson filmed most of ROTJ, instead of him.
    Ord-Mantell70 likes this.
  7. TX-20 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 4
    Jake Lloyd & Hayden Christensen would beg to differ.
  8. TheChosenSolo Jedi Master

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    Dec 9, 2011
    star 4
    Might wanna take that back, especially in the case of Jake Lloyd.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    He was an actor. Just because you didn't like his performance, doesn't make it any less so. It's "Star Wars", not "King Lear".
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Apr 11, 2014
  10. MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus

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    Jan 6, 2004
    star 5
    I don't think the acting skills of Jake and Hayden are particularly relevant to this thread.
  11. Slowpokeking Jedi Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    Actually Prowse was in the right age of Anakin, and he looks more like Mark Hamill.
    Skywalker Thing likes this.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 28, 2001
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    Anakin Skywalker was originally only like five or ten years younger than Obi-wan, who was supposed to be almost seventy. Prowse was nowhere near seventy when he did the OT. Lucas changed the characters ages when he sat down to make the PT.
    thejeditraitor likes this.
  13. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 4
    Actually the ages had already changed by Jedi as Anakin was no longer just a few years younger but was now a student of Obi-Wan's when Anakin and Darth were merged.

    The age thing was kind of glossed over anyway and didn't really matter for the unmasking scene. The only part where it did matter was for the final glimpse at the end and a more elderly fatherly look probably seemed better at the time than a much younger man besides Shaw still looked younger than Obi-Wan though the actor was older.
  14. Beautiful_Disaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4

    That's what I had heard.
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    It's kinda semantics, but you still get the point.
  16. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 4
    Always figured he wanted to get the guy who could best pull off the "I've been stuck wearing a life support suit complete with mask and helmet for twenty-three years" look.
  17. Scummy_and_Villainous Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2013
    star 3
    Here again is a quick mock-up I made and posted here about a year ago concerning this very subject to provide a better visualization for our forum members:

    [IMG]

    As I have stated before, I wouldn't trade Sebastian Shaw for the world, but I am certain this would have worked, provided, of course, that there would have been voice over-dubs.
    Not only does he look more like Mark Hamill but he also looks a lot like Hayden Christensen.
    Last edited by Scummy_and_Villainous, Apr 19, 2014
  18. VadersFollower Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2011
    star 1
    For me Shaw was just a bullseye. This guy was just glowing with a warm fatherly figure aura, and in the suit really sold the idea of a very weakened, sick man. Removal of Shaw at the end of ROTJ brings very mixed feelings in me. On one hand, Haydens presence is, imo, the biggest tie to the PT, so its one of the strongest elements tying the two together, if not the strongest for me, along with Fetts voice, but I always enjoyed the elderly Anakin by Shaw very much
  19. There_Are_Four_Lights Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2014
    star 1
    Why not put Hayden in there, if he was going to override the ghost? Dunno.
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Because Lucas was content with Shaw's performance, which is what he was originally only hired for. Anakin was supposed to appear as a ghost, that was a last minute decision and done under the guise of publicity material, which Shaw had no idea he was going to appear in the film that way. Hayden was filmed the same way, but done for a different reason. The other major difference is that Hayden looked too young, back in 2003 compared to Shaw who was much older at the time. So this fit what Lucas had opted for which is an older physical being and a younger ghost form.
  21. MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 5
    Setting aside the rightness or wrongness of Shaw/Christensen, old/young, I agree that Shaw's performance in the helmet and as the ghost are indeed excellent. Wonderful acting which captured the moments perfectly.
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  22. Bring_My_Shuttle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2006
    star 1
    Because it can't be emphasized enough just how cringeworthy the character of Darth Vader could have been:
    Last edited by Bring_My_Shuttle, Jul 28, 2014
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  23. MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 5
    And when you've found them, somebody get me a coiiderrrr!
  24. Django Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 4
    Thats absolutely spot on. Which was why Bob Anderson played Vader not only during the sword fight but for all the key scenes like "sister, if you won't turn to the dark side then may be she will" and when Vader throws Palps down the shaft. Something that didn't happen on ESB.
  25. CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    Except from an invterview with Prowse:
    [IMG]