PT Why didn't Yoda take the twins with him to Dagobah to be Trained as Jedi from Birth?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Chainmail_Jedi, Apr 2, 2013.

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  1. Wookiee_Vader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2007
    star 1
    Luke and Leia would have turned out as two complete weirdos by the time of the OT. Growing up totally isolated on a swamp planet in the middle of nowhere, the only other sentient being they have ever had any kind of contact with being Yoda. We saw how Yoda had lost it a bit in TESB, well imagine Luke crawling around digging through crates and showing an unhealthy fascination with a torch.

    They would probably also talk like Yoda, him being the only person they have ever conversed with. "Failed, Your Highness has.... a Jedi I am, like my father before me"
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  2. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah I don't know if Yoda would have been able to teach them enough about the outside galaxy while raising them on Dagobah. But it would be cool to see the Jedi growing and operating in secret with just a handful, just like the Sith did.
  3. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    Yoda didn't loose it, he was testing Luke's patience..
  4. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 3
    From an in-universe POV isn't the whole point that the Jedi order has just been wiped out, Yoda has just communicated with Qui Gon and he decides the best course of action is to wait. The Dark Side has become dominant as can clearly be seen from the previous events of the last decade plus.

    Yoda takes that as a sign to wait for the Force to come to them rather than force the issue.

    As for where they are hidden then you get into the whole reality that Luke was not in hiding in the first movie at all and Darth Vader was not his father Anakin and Leia was not his sister.

    That is what you have to work with. In-universe though there is no reason at all for Vader to go there. None. It'd make no sense at all for him to want to go there and no one is looking for a child. Obviously the Emperor and vader couldn't feel their presence even with Leia being someone they probably both met at teh Imperial Senate.
  5. Team Padme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Yoda taking care of two babies on Dagobah? Yeah, I can't see that happening.
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  6. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    They'd written themselves into a corner and needed us to suspend logic for that scene so that the movies would seem like they are part of the same continuity.
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Apr 27, 2013
  7. Visivious Drakarn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2013
    star 2
    This thread actually belongs to the OT section. It's in the OT established that Luke is related to the Lars' and that Darth Vader is his father Skywalker. If you're looking for inconsistencies, you should start from there and end it there. This is just desperate PT bashing.
    So, Yoda and the twins on Dagobah, that's ridiculous. There's no way that anyone wolud write that kind of movie/scene/whatever.
    That quoted line from ROTS' ending is good, there's nothing wrong with it. Because as far as Yoda and Obi-Wan know, Anakin is dead and Padme is burried with fake pregnant belly for possible Palpatine's intentions. The Lars' kept Luke's true surname because his father is dead and he's in no danger because he was never born (Padme's belly, again). That and in possible respect to Shmi.
  8. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    Probably because children shouldn't be treated like owned objects.

    I don't think growing up on a planet with nothing but jungle - isolated from any civilization - and raised by a 900-year old green dwarf who could die any day and wants to make you a soldier for "the greater good" is a good thing for any child.
    Socialization is essential for someone's character and development which makes it very hard to believe that a childhood like this would be of any help.

    Anakin also sufferend from the burden the Jedi placed on him. Luke and Leia profited a lot from their relatively happy and innocent childhood.
    So training L & L from birth on Dagobah would be the same mistake all over again - multiplied by 1000.
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  9. Charlie512 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 1
    Back then it was believable that Jedi with little training could become really powerful. With the prequels requiring Jedi to be trained most of their lives to be powerful (even Anakin) it makes a Jedi training for a few weeks/months less believable.
    Visitant likes this.
  10. DukeW Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2013
    IIRC there was reference somewhere (not sure if EU or not) where it was acknowledged that orthodox Jedi training methodology wasn't necessarily ideal or suitable for the modern day?
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    From ROTS novel:

    He spoke softly, but not to himself.
    Though no-one was with him, he was not alone.
    "My failure, this was. Failed the Jedi, I did."
    He spoke to the Force.
    And the Force answered him.
    Do not blame yourself, my old friend.
    As it sometimes had these past thirteen years, when the Force spoke to him, it spoke in the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn.
    "Too old I was. "Yoda said. "Too rigid. Too arrogant to see that the old way is not the only way. These Jedi, I trained to become the Jedi who had trained me, long centuries ago- but those ancient Jedi, of a different time they were. Changed, has the galaxy. Changed, the Order did not- because let it change, I did not."
    More easily said than done, my friend.



    "We should split them up," Obi-Wan said. "Even if the Sith find one, the other may survive. I can take the boy, Master Yoda, and you take the girl. We can hide them away, keep them safe— train them as Anakin should have been trained—"
    "No." The ancient Master lowered his head again, closing his eyes, resting his chin on his hands that were folded over the head of his stick.
    Obi-Wan looked uncertain. "But how are they to learn the self- discipline a Jedi needs? How are they to master skills of the Force?"
    "Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not. When right is the time for skills to be taught, to us the living Force will bring them. Until then, wait we will, and watch, and learn."
    Last edited by Iron_lord, May 3, 2013
  12. Charlie512 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 1
    The problem is that if they wanted Luke and Leia to become powerful enough to stand any chance at defeating the Emperor they would have need to be trained since birth.

    After 13+ years of training & experience in Revenge, Anakin was still no match for Palpatine. How were they expecting Luke to defeat the Emperor with only months of training.
    Last edited by Charlie512, May 3, 2013
  13. Lady_Misty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2007
    star 4
    Training Luke and Leia from birth would have been similar to turning the volume of the stereo all the way up and playing Death Metal (or something like that) at 1 a.m. really good at getting attention but bad for your health.

    It is implied that they thought that Anakin/Vader had perished on Mustafar add to their ruse with Padme's body they felt safe.

    At one point there might have been a plan to train Luke and Leia at a certain age but it could have gone over like a lead balloon. Owen is shown to be resentful of Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan says that Owen didn't agree with Anakin's ideals. Owen could have blamed Obi-Wan for Anakin's "death". Whether it was 'it's your fault that he's dead' or he felt that the Jedi had taken his step mother's beloved son away and he only knew Anakin through her stories; then Anakin is "killed" for being a Jedi.

    Leia could be removed if things got too hot for Bail and he had to have contacts here and there so he could have made Leia disappear if the need arose.
  14. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 3
    Except in this case they are the children of a being created by the Force itself (whether or not that was Plagueis and Sidious's doing re the EU).

    Just as with the original movies where more background information was in the novels of the films and even the comics often from the shooting scripts as opposed to the actual total canon of the films themselves. Even things Lucas didn't intend per se can take on their own life.

    Based on the actual films I proposed a theory that Sidious was in fact the apprentice of Plagueis and himself was like Yoda about 1000 years old. This of course is not workable based on the EU where Plagueis is still around at the start of TPM.
  15. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    Yeah, it's like they just decided to completely give up on everything the Jedi knew, which is very un-jedi like. It sure would have taken a lot of faith for Yoda to just wait until "the time is right" as he did. No good in-universe explanation. Also it's been discussed how dangerous it was to put Luke on Tattooine with relatives under his real name.
  16. Revenge of the Dak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 1
    Why would it be dangerous?

    They believed Vader was dead so they took him to his family on a planet that was furthest from the bright center of the universe.

    The only people that go to Tattoine are Smugglers, gansters or people just trying to hide which is what Obi Wan was trying to do (and did successfully for about 20 yrs).
  17. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2

    They didn't believe Vader was dead; at best they assumed it as Obi-Wan left him still alive. Further, they should be able to sense it. Plus Obi-Wan obviously learns in the intervening 20 years that Vader lived and is in a black robot suit and did not relocate Luke elsewhere. Further, Yoda said the children must be hidden to avoid detection by the Sith. Now that can be singular or plural, but if it were singular and he meant the Emperor he would have said "the Emperor".

    Further, they brought him back to his father's home planet, where generations of Skywalkers have lived, under his father's last name, to live at his mother's last known address. It makes no sense. If the Witness Relocation Program acted like this they'd have a very big casket expense in their budget.
    Last edited by SweetZombieJesus, May 6, 2013
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Actually, generations of Skywalkers have not lived there. In TPM Anakin mentions he and Shmi arrived on Tatooine when he was "about three" as slaves of Gardulla the Hutt.
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  19. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    Shmi -> Anakin -> Luke

    Looks like 3 generations, meaning already 2 when they brought Luke home. As opposed to some other planet that no Skywalker had lived on.
    Last edited by SweetZombieJesus, May 6, 2013
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  20. Revenge of the Dak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 1
    OK, even if they assume he is dead that still means they mostly believe he is dead. Just without 100% proof that a guy who had his limbs chopped off and scorched from head to stumps is dead. I mean if hindsight wasn't in play here and I happened to be in the room with Obi Wan and Yoda at the time and was told what happened I'd be like "yea, that dude is dead!". So, why not let Luke go back to his family (even if it is a loose relationship). The Emperor has no idea if Padme survived or the baby/babies were born. He just assumes Padme died as well...

    As for the Sith thing, I'm thinking the comment is made because Papls is still around and will be looking for a new apperentice (because Yoda and Obi wan assume/believe Vader is dead). So they put Luke on the planet furthest from and put Leia with a family of power (although I really don't agree with this idea). They again assume there is no reason for anyone to go to Tattoine and that no one will be looking for the off spring of Anakin Skywalker so, eh why not let the boy keep his name.

    Also, I thought it has been established that Vader would never set foot on Tattonie again because he is affraid of the emotional baggage it holds for him. Something along the lines of a piece of Anakin is still there...
  21. Lady_Misty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2007
    star 4
    If we are going to use some examples from the EU in Dark Lord Vader experiences some emotional and physical distress that was having a negative affect on him in the Jedi Temple. He decides that it would be in his best interests to make a point to avoid the Jedi Temple, possibly Naboo (which saddens him) and without a doubt Tatooine (which he doesn't mind at all) in the future.

    So if Vader at some point experienced emotional distress which would then lead to physical distress in or on certain places there is no way that he would purposely go to them.
  22. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    If you go by EU, Qui-Gon Jinn at the end of that novel spells it out explicitly to Obi-Wan: "The core of Anakin that still lives within Darth Vader will never let Vader set foot on Tatooine." Hence why Obi-Wan believed himself and Luke to be safe, at least from Vader.
  23. Lady_Misty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2007
    star 4
    Exactly! ^


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  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    But only 16 years- less than the 25 years that is "one generation" of time, chronologically.

    At least, going by the EU approach of 1000 generations = 25,000 years.
  25. Beautiful_Disaster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    I always thought of it as hiding Luke in plain sight, having him grow up on Tatooine[face_dunno]
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