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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Why do a lot of people say Episode V is the best?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by EmperorAjay, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. EmperorAjay

    EmperorAjay Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Why? And what people in RL says ROTS?
     
  2. Pancellor Chalpatine

    Pancellor Chalpatine Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Can you please clarify what you're asking Why to? Not sure what you're asking.
    As for what people say ROTS in rl-
    Family
    Friends
    random people I run into at gamestop
    People I run into at the force awakens screenings
    other people I talk to when I have to wait around in stores and lines.

    It's not hard to believe someone would call any of the star wars the best star wars film. I've heard people say different things all the time. Some say 1 or 2, some say 3 o4 or 5 or 6. I've heard nobody in real life say 7 yet, but it's bound to happen. I've seen it online already a lot. The fanbase is big and diverse. I don't agree with people saying any of the films are above ROTS, but I respect people who say it like adults. I actually kind of prefer all the films getting appreciation, even though I still think most people on here should be saying ROTS, it's no skin off my bone.

    And happy life day.
     
  3. Vanthorne_OX

    Vanthorne_OX Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2002
    I probably answered this question over a dozen years ago and it'd be neat to search archives and see what I said, but since then we've had RotS and TFA and Empire still feels to me like the overall winner. Here's why:

    Key word is overall. Sure the other 6 SW movies have great moments where they shine so far, but overall, to me Empire maintains the awesomeness longer than any other. The characters, what they do, what they say, how they do it, how they say it, the constant pressure the Empire applies, the constant awesome music, the pacing, the white and grey of Hoth, the earthy muck of Dagobah, the clouds and lighting of Bespin, the color palette comes alive and culminates in the iconic carbon freeze chamber, pressure pressure pressure it never lets up case in point> it's a good bet the Empire knows we're here> Hurry up goldenrod or you're going to be a permanent resident! > imperial troops have entered the base! imperial troops have ######## > would it help if I got out and pushed? > Closer!?! > no time to discuss this in a committee, I am not a committee! >(impatient Luke), the cave, remember your failure at the cave! > I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further! > Luke, no! it's a trap! > the Force is with you young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet> What are you doing? Trust him! trust him! > Oh we understand, don't we Chewie? he had "no choice" > terribly sorry about this, after all he's only a Wookie> Ben, why didn't you tell me? > Luke, it is your destiny! > Artoo come back at once! I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur! > Wonderful! I never doubted you for a second!

    and that's the edited version ;) But that's why I maintain that overall Empire is the best

    My top five favorite SW characters are Luke, Yoda, R2-D2, Qui-Gon, and Padme, so of course I treasure all the Dagobah scenes. I'm not afraid to stand out from "popular" SW opinion though, as my next overall fav is TPM. As you can see characters I like, heavily impacts how I overall rate the film.

    and I love ANH Death Star scenes, I love all action in AotC Kamino/Geonosis (but I don't care for what I feel to be convoluted plot with Dooku, Sifo Dyas, clones being secretly ordered, etc.) I really love RotS from Order 66 on (but not a big fan of how Dooku's character felt botched and Grievous was just nonsense in my opinion), I love RotJ Sarlaac pit and from Luke turning himself in and on. But to me ESB maintains the most awesomeness through both characters and events the longest, making it the overall best in my opinion. With TPM It is less about specific sequences, planets, or events, and more about the characters of Qui-Gon and Padme and R2's intro that carry it for me, though I love podracing, Darth Maul duel, and Anakin and R2 in that sleek Naboo star fighter,and these things take my mind off an over the top Binks, I feel TFA is similar with not so much specific events or parts I like the most, so much as the characters of Finn, Rey, and Han/Chewie. so I include this talk of the others briefly to show I like them also, but when going for overall best, most fav, I'm most likely to pop it in first and watch if I need a SW fix, but don't have time to watch them all, it's gonna be Empire.

    It's hard to put into words why but I hope I've conveyed the *emotion* of why. I also would love to see future SW movies try to outdo Empire, because that just means they'll be super awesome in my opinion. I feel TFA is a step in the right direction, but young sequel, you are not better than Empire yet. Episodes 8 and 9 will have to work for impressive, most impressive status.
     
  4. Straudenbecker

    Straudenbecker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2015
    TESB has the most memorable lines in the saga.
     
  5. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014
    I can tell you why I like it best.

    1) Visually it's a stunner. Lucas has a good visual style. But ESB has a kore sophisticated look overall.
    2) It takes the world seriously. It didn't apologize for embracing space fantasy as a serious pursuit. ANH also did that, but ESB took it to another level, IMO. I am of the opinion that ROTJ backed off that significantly.
    3) Lots of emotion. The movie is emotionally charged almost all the way through it.
    4) Mythos building. We get more of everything. More Empire, more Rebels. More Force, more Vader, more Luke, Han and Leia, etc.
     
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  6. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    I liked ESB most because:

    • Imperial March [face_love]
    • It unravels a lot about Darth Vader
    • We see the full strength of the empire and their massive fleet of star destroyers
    • We first catch a glimpse of the emperor, this scene is wonderful and really shows the power this one individual has. Also it was interesting seeing this dominating, authoritative figure; Darth Vader, bowing before the emperor and showing him immense respect
    • The dual was amazing and packed full of emotion
    • It was much darker than other Star Wars movies
    • We find out Darth Vader is Luke's father, perhaps the biggest shock in cinema history
    • The battle of Hoth was fantastic and quite literally perfection
    • The asteroid scene was great and we felt a more personal connection to the Millennium Falcon after seeing its failings
    • C3PO and Han were hilarious together, best comedy in the entire OT and PT
    • The love triangle between Leia, Han and Luke was great, not detracting from the movie in any way and it was not cheesy
    • Last but not least, the dark side take a victory. Whether people like to admit it or not, a dark side win is brilliant. (PT was rubbish but ROTS was the best and was like an actual star wars movie, perhaps due to the dark side victory)
    I could go on forever, but this is a tiny list of why I think ESB was great, It's just my personal opinion on the matter. :D
     
  7. Argalin

    Argalin Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I will ad my voice to the choir and list the things I love about ESB.

    • Hoth, an amazing planet that immediately shows you the Rebellion's plight and what they have to do to hide from the Empire.
    • The Wampa Cave scene(theatrical NOT SE). Wonderful tension build up and sound editing, Luke retrieving his lightsaber with The Force is such an iconic scene.
    • Han throughout the entire movie. This is the best Han Solo we ever get, possibly the best Harrison Ford performance in any film.
    • The Battle of Hoth. Everything about it. The vehicles are wonderful and tell a story. The type of vehicles the Rebels use vs. the Empire reveals how the Empire wins with overwhelming fire power and menace(AT-ATs), while the Rebels have to fight with cunning and smarts. Luke's heroics as he single-handed takes out an AT-AT on foot, awesome.
    • I believe this is also the best Leia we get. Carrie Fisher really stepped up the nuances in her performance with this one. You can tell what she's thinking through expression alone, but it's never over the top.
    • Best music. The Imperial March and the music during the asteroid chase really stand out to me. So does Yoda's theme as he pulls the X-Wing out of the swamp.
    • Yoda. Has there been to this day a better use of puppetry in film? He is so completely real I never once thought of him as a puppet. His humor and his wisdom really shine in this movie.
    • Darth Vader. He really begins to intimidate in this film. This is not a man you want to disappoint. As great as Vader was in ANH, if we never got another SW film after it I just don't think Vader is as iconic a villain without this movie.
    • The humor. The jokes really land in this film, but they are never in your face. When C-3PO interrupts Han and Leia's kiss I still have a little chuckle.
    • The writing. Goes hand and hand with the humor. The screenplay for this film is immaculate. It feels like Kasdan really understood each and every character in this film.
    • The Falcon. It really becomes a character of its own in this film, and the fact that it's always breaking down adds tension and excitement. You feel like the heroes can lose.
    • The heroes lose. For me, nothing really adds to the tension and emotional investment of a story like showing me that the heroes aren't perfect and they can lose. This film does this in a remarkable way without discrediting the fact that they all still remain true heroes.
    • Han being frozen in carbonite. "I love you." "I know." Thank you Harrison Ford for that improv! Such an emotional scene, the Carbon Freezing Chamber's lighting is INCREDIBLE.
    • Luke and Vader's duel. This has become my favorite thing in all SW films. The lighting of the carbon chamber as I mentioned already is just amazing, it sets the stage here so perfectly. The emotions conveyed during this duel trump all other saber duels for me. It is so intense without being flashy. Masterful editing and sound work, and James Earl Jones really kills it here.
    • "No, I am your father." - As plot twists go, there's none better. It immediately resonates through the rest of what you have seen through ANH and ESB to that point and feels true no matter how much you would want it to be a lie. This moment alone to me means no generations should watch Star Wars in chronological order.
    • Luke reaching out to Leia with The Force. I have always loved this scene and the fact that he instinctually calls out for Leia.
    Like others I could so say much more. It is a masterpiece in filmmaking. I don't think it's just the best Star Wars film but in the top 5 best films ever created.
     
  8. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2015
    Easy - TESB has scenes like this:

     
  9. Inquisitor Geek

    Inquisitor Geek Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    TESB does things in reverse to what many - starts off with the big battle, and ends up with everyone thrown across the Galaxy and in varying degrees of trouble. In that way as the problematic 'middle film' of a trilogy it probably would have left me on a knife edge, if I had been old enough to have seen it at the time.

    I agree with previous poster saying that it just treated everything a lot more seriously, it just seems most perfected of the three. I suspect this is why ROTJ is often placed last in the original trilogy, because it went from that deep meaningful and dark episode to 'a bunch of Ewoks', as portrayed by some commentators at any rate. I think that is pretty unfair on ROTJ as it is very dark and dramatic, the ultimate showdown is every bit as powerful as TESB IMHO.
     
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  10. The Krynoid Man

    The Krynoid Man Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 24, 2015
    Probably because it has one of the most memorable plot twists in cinema.
     
  11. HellasLEAF-Jedi

    HellasLEAF-Jedi Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2009
    I just re-watched the OT in Blu Ray for the first time (been saving it). And for the first time I would say in 5 years so it felt very fresh.

    ESB is still the king.
     
  12. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 28, 2015
    Wrong. Go watch Revenge of the Sith. ESB is a children's story compared to Episode III.
     
  13. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015

    I actually am just finishing up ESB as I type this and watched ROTS a couple of hours ago. You couldn't be more wrong. There is SO MUCH more childish stuff in ROTS that it isn't even funny.... that movie has some great moments but it's very tonally inconsistent.

    There's nothing remotely like the ridiculous buzz droids or terrible sounding idiotic Super battle droids in TESB. Obi Wan and Anakin don't even pretend to take grevious or the battle droids seriously on the bridge Greviouses flagship which destroys the tension of the scene. The obi-wan grevious fight is also video game level ridiculous (although I do like how it ends).
     
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  14. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 28, 2015
    Well, I think ROTS is the darkest one because: Anakin is dreaming about Padme's death, and wanna do something to stop, then he is seduced by the dark side in a attempt to save his wife's life. But at the end Padme dies and Anakin is burned alive in the saddest scene of the entire saga and becomes Darth Vader.

    Anakin kill a group of younglings.

    The Republic is destroyed and Darth Sidious rises the Empire, almost all the Jedi are killed in the Order 66, also one of saddest scenes in Star Wars. At the beginning of the movie we see Obi wan and Anakin's relationship at its best and at the end of the movie we see them fighting each other.

    Oh yes, and Padme was pregnent of twins. She dies and left Luke at the hands of Obi wan, who become a hermit in Tatooine, and Leia is left at Bail Organa's hands, who takes th girl to Alderaan. They are both hide from the Emperor.

    Now tell me Darth__Lobot, why do you think ESB is the darkest of the seven films?
     
  15. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015

    Erm... Thanks for correcting a subjective opinion. [face_plain]

    I would still say ESB was the darkest simply due to how I felt when I watched it.
     
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  16. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 19, 2015

    Perfect! :D
     
  17. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

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    May 23, 2005
    It's no contest that ESB is the best Star Wars movie.

    There's not a bad sequence in the whole movie unlike other SW movies that all have problems.

    ANH: Lower budget, the death star backdrops look cheesy and fake, 70's hair styles galore.
    ROTJ: Ewoks beating storm troopers, the good guys win everything all the time against ridiculous odds.
    TPM and AOTC: I don't think I need to even go into this.
    ROTS: Cheesy dialogue for the most part is its biggest problem
    TFA: No original story, cookie cutter SW movie.

    ESB sequences:
    • Hoth - wampa, etc...
    • Hoth battle w/ walkers, etc...
    • Asteroid chase
    • Yoda & Degobah
    • Giant worm
    • Cloud City
    • Boba Fett
    • Luke vs Vader I
    For me the Hoth battle is one of the best if not THE best battle of any SW movie. We get a better Yoda in this movie than any other SW movie. The asteroid chase was amazing with the music and everything. "This s no cave". Vader was absolutely vicious and evil in this movie. He was 10x as evil & powerful as he was in ANH. The imperial march...amazing. Luke vs Vader took light saber dueling light years beyond what it was in ANH.

    But more importantly, most of all the characters were flat in ANH, many characters got major depth in ESB. Vader wasn't just an evil guy dressed in black, he might actually be Luke's father! And he didn't want to just kill Luke, he wanted to turn him. We get real character development from Han & Leia while the empire pursues them. Luke makes the transition to pre-jedi. Lando...do you trust him? Great characters, great story, amazing music & effects (especially for that time).

    It's no contest in my mind. ESB is and probably will always be the very best SW movie.
     
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  18. Zenwalker

    Zenwalker Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 18, 2015
    First gen fan here. I basically agree with this post. There was also one of the coolest movie twists ever. I remember the gasps in the theater in 1980 when we heard "No, I am your father".
     
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  19. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2015

    The problem with ROTS is that it's just too non-serious in parts..... sure bad things happen but the movie overall just doesn't take itself as seriously as TESB does.

    IT's tonally inconsistent as I said (although less so than TPM or AOTC).

    If you want a comparison look at the Hobbit movies... They have slapstick humor and decapitations in back to back scenes.
     
  20. Black Leader

    Black Leader Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 4, 2016
    to go back to the original q, lots of people like it best (not just fanboys) bcs it's the darkest & most mature of the films, as other posters have said, & the love story is more prominent. For me it suffers for being the middle part of a trilogy with unresolved questions, whereas ep 4 works as a standalone movie
     
  21. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I love ANH and ESB for different reasons. I can't choose one over the other.
     
  22. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    I think a lot of us have made solid arguments that it's the best movie in this thread with scene by scene breakdowns.

    That said, there's one point that might trump all others...

    It's the only movie in the OT or ST that had enough of a story to tell that it didn't use blowing up another death star as a plot device (no offense to IV for being the first on that).
     
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  23. Arte

    Arte Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Why is V the best. Never thought of it like that, but yes that would be true. The Empire strikes back is probably the reason the series is a cult. Star wars was sci-fi, damn good sci-fi, but sci-fi nonetheless. and i think every story needs a great conflict, a strong villain - something awesome to overcome - a worth adversary. Darth Vader provided that punch.
     
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  24. Twain

    Twain Jedi Master star 3

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    Aug 12, 2014
    ESB is not only the best Star Wars film, but it's the best sequel (along with Godfather Part II) in cinematic history.

    Everything in the Star Wars franchise flows from the The Empire Strikes Back. It's the heart of the franchise.
     
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  25. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2015
    TESB is Darth Vader's film.. and Vader is considered by many to be the greatest villain in cinematic history.

    I'll also add that TESB gave us Yoda, considered by many to be the greatest puppet/cgi/etc character in cinematic history