PT Why do people Hate Padme's reaction to Anakins massacre?

The Sand People are obvious analogues for indigenous peoples. The entire plot point is based on the classic John Wayne film The Searchers where a group of Comanche Indians kidnap a pair of white women, spurring a white soldier to set out after them. Racism and the inter-generational hatreds driving a never-ending cycle of violence between indigenous peoples and white settlers is a major theme of that film.

Anakin's slaughter of the Tuskens is an atrocity because he killed men, women, and children--as they are rightly identified by Anakin in the film. The Sand People are, well, people. Calling people animals and justifying the slaughter of innocent women and children is gross behavior even if it's being done in the context of a discussion of a fictional narrative. Especially when it's exactly the kind of rhetoric that's been used to dehumanize the real people that the situations and characters in the film are clearly based on. It's not my fault you chose to say the things that you did in the way that you did, and I'm not sorry for calling out the things you said for what they are. My sincere suggestion would be for you to use this as a learning experience.

 

Quite a few Sand People posting here. The just use a single profile to hide their numbers.

 

Thank you for your suggestion - but some of us can separate fantasy/fiction from reality, jus sayin'. In future, jot it down on a piece of paper and pop it in my suggestions box, thanks kindly.

 

You can joke all you want. Fact is your reasons for considering the Sand People as a lower form of life are not only offensive (in-universe) but also quite foolish. How can "animals" like lions (your comparison) competently use technology like rifles. Built huts & live in communities. Train & use animals like Banthas for their own purposes, even being smart enough to ride in single file to disguise their numbers. You see, even putting aside the bad taste element, your arguments are plain wrong. Within the story, Sand People are indigenous tribal people. It's that simple.

 

Perhaps it would’ve helped if we had seen at least a few Tuskens who at least attempted to get along with the Tatooine settlers?

 

They're not friendly to non-indigenous people. Maybe they consider them hostile invaders. I suspect that's supposed to be the idea behind their aggression. It's in line with native people here who had outsiders move onto their land.

 

Did people expected Padme to act like in parodies and calling Anakin a creep and leave? I'm sure her reaction would be quite different if she actually saw his actions and didn't feel any remorse whatsoever and talking about doing all this for her and saying he wanted to rule the galaxy like he did in RotS. But it seems like she saw she could "fix" him and finally to live in secrecy which is exactly what she shouldn't have done. She should have told him to seek help but then it wouldn't be a tragedy of she did all the right thing, right?

 

I looked at the scene and there isn't zero change in her expression, only X approaching zero.
To me, it looked like an actor that has no idea how she is supposed to react in this scene.
"I am supposed to be shocked, horrified, fearful, disgusted? Mr Director, any help???
Ok I go with mostly blank stare then."

Padme showed more of a reaction when Anakin told her he wanted to become all-powerful.
At least there she said something.

Again her reaction more fits with Anakin telling her he trashed some cars or kicked in some doors.

We have no idea why these other siths turned to the dark side.
We know Dooku was a jedi and he seemed sad about the death of his pupil Qui-Gon.
But that isn't relevant, Anakin felt hate and anger and acted on them.
And he killed all he came across.
He hurt and so he wanted to make other people hurt.
Didn't matter to him if they had anything to do with this or not. He was out for blood.

[/QUOTE]Do we care about children maimed by our bombs falling from the sky? No one makes any distinction in terms of age of casualties on any level that matters. You seem to think killing an innocent man is acceptable, while women and children is detestable. At least that's how I'm reading you, and obviously there is no place for this kind of distinction in the context of the scene.[/QUOTE]

As DarthDownunder said, the men are likely the warriors, some of whom we see attack Anakin.
And historically, in war, killing women and children HAS been seen as worse.
Most countries don't sentence children to jail when they break the law.
So him killing the warriors that attacks him, that is one thing. For him to then methodically search the camp, enter very last hut and killing any and all he comes across. Down to the smallest child.
That is something else.

As for bombs on children, some people do protest wars and esp wars where the civilian population is targeted. In Syria for ex. There had been a lot of instances where bombs have hit target that are normally not hit, like hospitals. And the use of chemical weapons.
And some are upset about it.
Do their protest matter?
Not to the people in charge of these attacks.
Does that make such protests meaningless?

[/QUOTE]I said Anakin took personal responsibility. He admitted it openly and confessed it to Padme. Anakin could have said nothing at all and pretended it never happened. Or he could invent any number of lies to justify himself. He doesn't, he states the truth. This is an honorable move after a dishonorable action.[/QUOTE]

And as I said, that is NOT taking responsibility.
Doing that would be to tell his Jedi superiors and accept their judgement.
Given that it is very likely that Anakin would have gotten some questions from Yoda/Obi-Wan about Tatooine, then Anakin did likely lie or omit the truth.
Anakin knew that there would likely be consequences of him telling the Jedi about this.
And telling them that he married Padme and all that.
And Anakin did not want to face that and so he did not tell them.
That is NOT honorable.
That is hiding the truth because you don't want to accept the consequences of your actions.

[/QUOTE]What was Padme to do? She had some choices to make but none of them led to a good place. Her betraying Anakin's trust would almost certainly lose him to the dark side forever. She was in a difficult position and there was no obvious good choice.[/QUOTE]

Padme suggesting that Anakin talk to Obi-Wan about this is NOT breaking any trust.
It is sensible, Anakin crossed a line and needs help. Help that she can't give him but that the other Jedi might.
If she did suggest it and he rejected it and made her swear that she would never mention this to anyone.
That is a different story and her one could talk about trust. But this isn't what the films shows.

Also, if you have a friend or loved one that has a problem, drinking, drugs, gambling and they won't seek help. You are not really doing them any favor by staying quiet.
Telling someone in charge so that this person has to confront this and maybe get help.
They would likely be upset at first but might thank you in the long run.

[/QUOTE]Motive matters when murder is commited. Anakin's crime of passion and revenge against the brutal sand people is quite different than Anakin murdering children in cold blood. The nations of the west get bombed, so we kill innocent civilians in response. This seems generally acceptable by everyone. If we just dropped some bombs over there with no provocation, it would be a different matter altogether.
[/QUOTE]

Had Anakin killed just the warriors that attacked him and stopped and left, then I might see it as a crime of passion.
But since he systematically searched the whole camp, with over twenty huts and killed all he came across.
Even small children. That changes it.
Since he said he killed them all, he must have chased after any of those that he saw running away.
This would take time, time enough for him to calm down.
But either he didn't, which makes him a danger to all around him, or he did calm down but didn't want to stop killing.

But again, that is no excuse for her not mention it in the garage or during their trip to Geonosis.
And their marriage vs Anakin committing mass murder, the former is a minor issue compared to the latter.
Anakin needed help, ignoring that makes little sense.

[/QUOTE]About her reaction during the Anakin's confession scene, like I said in my first post the reaction of Padmé was dicated from other reasons, and about her attitude with Anakin, I believe that in a such moment it wasn't illogical for her giving the priority to the solace of the boy for the murdering committed with rage, pain and regret.[/QUOTE]

Again, she is being told about mass murder, including women and children.
Unless she thinks that is nothing, she should show more of a reaction.
Show her reacting, go through it, calm down and then go and comfort Anakin.

[/QUOTE]Later there weren't literally any moment for her to talk with Anakin about it even if they would like: from the funeral of Shmi, to the news of Obi-Wan in danger and their decision to rescue him, nothing give then the time ti spemd time together thinking to what hapemed on Tatooine. This until both of them seem on the verge of the death and Padmé decides to use what could be the last moments of their life for loving Anakin. After that point Padmé couldn't more suggest Anakin to report his crime to the Jedi order with a straight face.[/QUOTE]

There was plenty of moments, Lucas just didn't want to bother with it.
Instead we got a silly factory chase based upon some very dodgy reasoning from Padme.
She wants a diplomatic solution, so to do this, she sneaks in, hoping that that they can get to Dooku or the other leaders without anyone seeing them and then talking to them.
Not once did she consider that the first thing Dooku or those other would say is "How did you get in here? Guards!!"
Also, what does Anakin do, as soon as he sees a danger, out comes the lightsaber and he is back to cutting up the locals.
So her talking to Anakin, knowing that he is likely still quite upset and not balanced, would make sense.
She wants a non-violent solution, so making sure that the very distraught Jedi stays calm is a good idea.

[/QUOTE]I've no idea if the torture subject is used from some books, like I said I was just making supposition on my own. Reading your post I agree with you that the idea of making of Shmi a labour slave appears more logical than my scenario.[/QUOTE]

I haven't read the book nor do I know the title. But from what I have seen mentioned here, it makes Sand People into loathsome monsters. Even the children took part in the torture and the women all cackled evilly about it.

[/QUOTE]I never said that Lucas' meaning of this scene was justifying the killing of them (not only the women and the children, any of them) just the opposite because otherwise what would be the reason for showing Anakin to feel regret and Padmé feel empathy for his emotions including this one?
[/QUOTE]

I didn't say you did. But I have debated this in the past and almost always there are some that argue that the Sand People don't deserve to live, they are monsters and Anakin did a GOOD thing by killing all of them.

I just don't think this is what Lucas was going for.
He wanted to show Anakin doing something really, really bad.
Which is why I have a hard time accepting arguments that downplay what he did.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

What's interesting is how Anakin doesn't kill them right away, he's sneaking in their camp and goes straight to his mother. Only after she dies does he completely lost it and slaughter them, because in his mind they're all responsible for what happened and I guess in that moment he believes they're just "vicious, mindless monsters" like Cliegg stated, clearly an obvious parallel to how indigenous people were perceived in the past . He blames the Jedi who hold him back and imagine what if scenarios to deal with how he feels in that moment. He knows he shouldn't have done it so he tells Padme everything he did and she's visibly shocked to hear what he did but then her face soften just before she comforts him.

 

I now feel bad I killed a bunch of them in several games.

 

Personally I see noticeable changes in her reaction throughout that scene.

She begins confused at Anakin's anger, to shocked at his revelation, becomes sad at the thought of what he said, then whilst seeing him at such a low moment in his life (note: he literally drops down to the floor at this point) she decides to proceed with an attempt to put him at ease ("To be angry is to be human"), and when Anakin flatly dismisses her rationale and owns up to the wrong ("No, I'm better than this") that's when Padme finally decides to offer real comfort by leaning in and caressing his neck.

 

So you choose to learn nothing. Very sad, but nothing I can do about it. Best wishes.

Why would that have helped? The film intentionally does everything it can do prejudice you against the Tuskens. It tries to get you to see the Tuskens through the eyes of people like Cliegg and Anakin. You're supposed to understand how they--otherwise good people--could be driven to such acts of hatred and dehumanization. But you're also supposed to realize the actuality reality of what was done, and the horror of it, just as Anakin does (too late) in the garage.

 

For me it was totally Natalie Portman's patented Terrible Prequel Acting™ that ruined it. Like when Anakin runs his hand up her back, she just doesn't react at all. She's dead in the face. There's nothing there. Anakin is confessing to genocidal actions done out of pure rage. She should show deep turmoil on her face, she should show a massive conflict between revulsion and understanding/love for Anakin, between utter fear that he's capable of such a thing and compassion for him losing his mother in such an horrific way. And even when she does speak, the delivery is so "I'm casually okay with everything you just said." It should be more that she knows she has to say SOMETHING and she WANTS to believe what she is saying, but she also knows what he's confessing is horrific.

 

It's hard to see how much more Lucas can do. For Lucas this is as blatant as he maybe ever is.

We are seeing two entirely different things then.

My version is far better.

HC gives the two finest performances in the entire run of now 9 movies in total and NP is right up there with him. I'd say the PT is the finest acting overall in those 9 films because it has to be multi-layered and incredibly nuanced.

 

See I agree that Hayden did a great job and I really think his acting gets a lot of crap when he really was excellent. And he is EXCELLENT in that scene. And I am a huge Portman fan, have been since her first film. I just think she's wooden and awful in most of the PT, this scene included. Really just did not work for me at all.

 

I think Portman is somewhat uneven but I disagree that there's nothing on her face. It seems like compassion mixed with sorrow. It's very subtle, but it's there.

 

All I would say then is that she was asked to and performed beautifully to what Lucas wanted which was very specific and worked and which apparently different from what works for you in her other roles.

The underlying character of Padme is her training and formality that supercedes just about everything. The only times she really breaks down is with Anakin in AOTC at the exeuction arena and after she finds out that Anakin has turned to the Dark side and goes to Mustafar.

 

Exactly. I feel folks are so used to melodrama and overacting in the modern blockbusters they can't appreciate more subtle or stoic characters.

 

I think Portman's emoting is effective. She looks appropriately distressed as she's kneeling down to sit by him, but ultimately Padme's natural calm control coupled with her genuine concern for Anakin take over and she provides enough comfort to bring the situation under control. Good scene from her that illustrates she's moving closer to Anakin while still learning how to deal with him, thus her professional attitude isn't entirely relaxed in favor of a more blatant emotional display one way or another.

 

To be fair the style Lucas used for Star Wars and the PT in particular was so out of style at the time that I get why they might think the acting is bad when it's actually rather excellent but the only thing that gets me is that Lucas is up front about it so at the least I would ask anyone to appreciate on that level and see what he was getting at.

The whole basis of the romance was based on it and the fact that Across the Stars was specifically tailored to address the issues that wouldn't be present on the screen.

I know people who think that Lucas had to depend on JW to provide the emotion that wasn't in the movies themselves but 1)That is what it's supposed to do and 2)Lucas was intimately involved with the emotional tone of the music.

I think that Lucas' classical music temp tracks would be fascinating to hear.

No one has to like it but if they think it was all "terrible" then I have to disagree.

 

Agreed, although her phoned-in performances in the PT are quite out of place in the context of her career. Which raises the question of why. In this interview she makes it pretty clear that she thinks it came down to the director: http://www.thegeektwins.com/2013/02/natalie-portman-disses-lucas-

 

Ironically, I liked her a lot less in Thor movies... Also, "less focus on performance" doesn't necessarily mean she disses Lucas, it's just one of those fanboys' suppositions. I think she's pretty decent most of the time, with her best scenes in TPM and ROTS.

 

What other "large-scale productions" in a similar vein to Thor that she'd worked on previously could she be referring to? Her diss of Lucas here is about as subtle as a brick to the head.

 

Natalie has only said good things about her character, SW and George in the past. Everytime i see articles or posts about her being negative to anything related to SW it's always a quote taken out of context or them exaggerating something she's said.

I thoroughly enjoyed her performance in the PT, she was great as Queen Amidala (People don't realize that her voice being deep and monotone is part of the character/story of being Queen of Naboo) and handmaiden Padme. In AOTC there's one scene I can think of that's made me think 'Oh Natalie', which was the veranda scene where Anakin is meditating. He tells her that he needs to go to Tatooine and she says 'I'll go with you' in a very weird way so to speak. Other than that I thought she did good, considering some of the dialogue was very hard to sound realistic/believable to the general audience even from an A-List actor, solely due to the fact it's written in a very medieval tongue (Which I love).

ROTS was when she was at her best imo, and idk why people think she was bad in ROTS. All her scenes she conveys strong emotion, facial expression and body language. She gets the character across effectively and is the opposite of 'Wooden'. There's really no scene in ROTS that I can think where she was even remotely bad. All the actors/actresses were at their best in ROTS.

 

Even though this is mildly off topic (character v. actor), I'd point to Harrison and Carrie as a counterpoint. Harrison is noted for saying he'd modify the word choice to make it sound a little more natural. Ford/Fisher also just delivered it better. With Hayden/Natalie, it almost feels like they are politely waiting for the other to reach their Period (.) Question (?) or Exclamation (!) marks of their lines. People don't converse that way. They sometimes talk over each other. Especially when the conversation is awkward or emotional. Ford/Fisher did this, while at the same time not making it sound like a cacophony of noise.

You can't just blame everything on the director or screenwriter. The audience (customer) can, but the actors can't.