Why do people hate Return of the Jedi?

Like the title says: Why? I mean sure, I'll admit it's the weakest of the three classic films. But I still love it to pieces, and really can't find anything wrong with it (well, at least before Jedi Rocks...). Okay, so Boba's death sucks. But that's about it. Even the Ewoks really aren't half as bad as everybody seems to think. They've got 437892473 times more personality than Gungans, anyway.

Not only that, but people lament that Lucas didn't go along with his original idea of a planet of Wookiees. Doesn't anyone realize how bad that would be? 1) Wookiees live in treetops. This is NOT EU, either, this was in the Holiday Special, and like it or not that's canon. So we'd have a movie with a bunch of rebels running around on treelimbs. Yawn. And 2) Wookiees are totally comfortable with technology. They thrive on it. The whole point was that a primitive society (i.e. Ewoks) could overtake a mechanical, Imperial machine. That's one of the recurring themes of the films, and using Wookiees would defeat the purpose.

Course, it's also a whole lot easier to cast dwarves than giants. Oh, and we shouldn't forget that we've already had two movies of Chewbacca, so really, having a bunch of Wookiees would just be more of the same. At least Ewoks were something new.

So, could somebody out there, who hates ROTJ, PLEASE explain why it sucks without resorting to a bunch of cheap shots at the Ewoks? Thanks. I'm just curious, because I've yet to hear a compelling argument from anybody outside of "cuz teh ew0x sux0rz!!11!11!!".

 

Ewoks. Thats it. Without them, the movie would easily rival ESB, maybe even surpass it. The space battle is the greatest ever committed to film and the ground battle (even with the Ewokes) is exciting. What really makes the film is the contfontation between Luke, Palpatine and Vader. This is the heart of the film and these scenes are all phenomenal, definitly the strongest scenes in the entire saga. But the Ewoks suck the life out of the film; In the latter half when they start fighting, they're tolerable (the scene where one steals the speeder-bike is downright funny), but that whole middle section of the film--from when Leia first meets Wicket to the start of the end battle--is terrible. All the ultra-cute, merchandize driven teddie bears running around. When the film is good, its very good, but when its bad, its very bad. The Gungans at least were never as cute as Ewoks were. Its the darker, more mature aspects of the story that make the film. The Ewoks took the seriousness out of the film and thats why they're such a detriment.

 

I don't think ROTJ sucked at all. In fact, ROTJ and ANH are my two favorite SW films. I don't hate the ewoks, in fact when I was a kid I loved them (watched the cartoon and collected their toys). The rescue at Jabbas, Yoda's final scene, Luke's conversation w/ Obi-Wan, the space battle, Chewie taking over the AT-ST, the interaction w/ Luke and Vader on the AT-AT, and the final confrontation and redemption of Anakin. Whats not to like about ROTJ.

My theory is that by 1983 a large portions of fans were teenagers, in high school, and starting college. They no longer had the eyes of a child and thats why they hated the ewoks so much. I think it also began the hypercriticsm and unreasonable expectations of certain SW fans.

 

Return of the Jedi is my favourite! I love the show down between father and son! But uh... *looks around to make sure her friend DOY isn't around*...the whole battle with the ewoks got a little annoying.

 

I could be wrong, but I always...sensed...that people really don't like the idea that Palpatine is the main villain of the saga, and that Vader is actually still good inside.

 

I've always loved ROTJ,ever since I first saw it in the theater in its original '83 release when I was six. I've never understood how people could find fault with the film,but it probably comes down to personal taste. Sure,ROTJ isn't Citizen Kane,but I've always felt it shows that bad people can die good,and in the end,good will always triumph over evil. I always get this thrill of joy and righteousness whenever I see it,and I think that's why.

 

The only thing I hate or even dislike in RotJ are Ewoks.
I loved to see the Emperor and his powers, I loved the Duel, I loved the (space)Battle of Endor. Ewoks are the only reason why I like ESB more than RotJ.
The death of Boba Fett and Emperor were sad, but I don't hate those scenes.

The Wookiee-fight could have been boring, but it'd been more believable than small furry animals triumphing over "a legion of my elite troops".

Conclusion:
RotJ is still an excellent film.

 

ROTJ is my favorite in the saga. And I love the Ewoks.

 

"Sure,ROTJ isn't Citizen Kane"

and thank god for that. i'm a film student and i hate Citizen Kane

RotJ is my Favourite of the entire saga. so screw all you who dont love it. cause i dont love you.

RotJ is the best, TPM is the worst. the ones inbetween are super awesome.

 

*Posts before the topic locks*


Can I put an end to "Why can teddy bears beat Elite Storm Troopers?" Thank you.

Gorilla warfare. If you notice in ANH and ESB, the Empire is used to face to face combat. You shoot from one side, we shoot from the other. Its "Modern War." Now, when a bunch of well camoflauged creatures of the woods, apear from nowhere and send an arrow into your neck, your not gonna win. The Ewoks blend into the forest Habitat. The clean white armor of the Imperials just lets them stick out like a sore thumb. Imperials aren't trained in Gorilla warfare, and were only overcome because of condfusion. There?

 

Why do people hate Jedi?

I've been trying to figure that one out ever since I first dialed up onto the net. Before that, I lived in a little bubble where Jedi was loved, hell worshipped by the Star Wars fans I know. I guess some people can't handle a few cute critters. The Jedi bashers would have you believe that every frame of the movie was solid Ewoks. well, to hell with them I say. They're also the ones that have the nerve to act all shocked and surprised that the Prequels (to them) are bad. Well, I say to them: if you figured out you hated one of the films in 1983, then you shouldn't complain now because you knew what you were in for.

-JDR.

 

Why do people keep dismissing the Ewoks as teddy bears? Weren't they going to roast Han & Luke? I don't ever recall Winnie the Pooh barbequing humans.

 

Note: I wasn't refering to them as Teddy Bears, thats just what the bashers say o.o

 

I mean sure, I'll admit it's the weakest of the three classic films.

Hmm. I can't say I agree with you there. No, for me, ROTJ is by far the best of the saga, and I seriously doubt Episode III is going to change that.

Note: I wasn't refering to them as Teddy Bears, thats just what the bashers say o.o

To be fair, George Lucas has reffered to them as teddy bears several times.


The only thing I hate about ROTJ is the Jedi Rocks song. The beak on the sarlaac pit was annoying, but I can tolerate it. Same with the Ewoks. What really makes it the best, in my opinion, is the showdown between Luke and the Emperor. "No. You've failed, your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me." "So be it. Jedi." That scene alone blows any other scene in the saga out of the water.

 

Like I said, I have no problems with the pre-SE ROTJ.

ROTJ is the only film in the trilogy I can honestly say wasn't improved at all by the SE treatment. Okay, so the new footage at the end was nice, but the new ending music, the Sarlacc beak, and of course Jedi Rocks...it's all bad.

 

No argument here. Aside from the better picture and sound quality, every SE change is bad in my opinion.

 

Re: HanSolo29's comment that people didn't like how ROTJ reused ideas from the previous films:

So people complain that ROTJ reused too many things from the other movies, yet they want a planet full of Wookiees, not a new species?

Does anyone else see the flaw here?

 

"No argument here. Aside from the better picture and sound quality, every SE change is bad in my opinion."

You can't be serious can you Master_Akwat_Kbrana? You might want to read up the changes made that aren't so obvious unless your really looking out for them. Have a look at the link that goes to the Star Wars Special Edition Annotations? in my signature.

 

I don't hate ROTJ, it's just I'm sure they could've have an actual, more realistic way for the troops at the shield generator to be defeated. There's no way in any kind of reality the Ewoks should've beaten them.

This is basically a double post but....

In the few bits of time between Wicket, or whomever, going out and bringing the Ewoks to the shield generator, how exactly did they cut down and de-limb all those trees for the logs they needed? How did they carry those logs? How did they set up them? How did their traps be set up exactly where AT-STs and troopers would walk? HOW DO STONES AND ARROWS KILL A STORMTROOPER IN BLASTER ARMOR? The only part of the Ewok battle that made any kind of realistic sense is Chewie and the two Ewoks taking over the AT-ST. I just can't buy the Ewoks defeating the mightiest legions in the Empire, with or without gigantic logs that magically appear from nowhere.

 

I will preface this by saying that I have I have never hated ROTJ, but only came around to liking ROTJ in the last year or so. Until recently, it has been my least favorite SW film. Let me also say that I have long considered TESB the best of the SW films and was surprised to see on the boards that some people did not and actually liked ROTJ better than TESB. So my experience may or may not be unique, and I can't speak for all people who dislike(d) ROTJ. But I think that my experience can shed some light on it for you. My reasons for disliking it up until recently may not be convincing to you, but these are some of the reasons why I generally regarded it as the weakest of the trilogy.

1. The disappointment of many fans when TPM came out in 1999 was because they built it up in their minds to the movie to end all movies. This was also the case with ROTJ. TESB had raised the bar high, but left us hanging. For three years, I wondered if Darth Vader was Luke's father. I wondered who the other hope was for Obi-Wan and Yoda. TESB has really been the only SW movie with a cliffhanger, and three years was a long time to wait in the early 1980's. We had no internet or discussion forums to dissect the latest spoilers from Lucas insiders, so the buildup for ROTJ was huge nevertheless.

2. TESB shattered the expectations of many people who expected another ANH (a great movie that made you feel good) by giving us the good guys on the run the whole movie. However, TESB really probed the characters' psyches and the darkness gave it a real edge that made up for the lack of a truly happy ending. TESB set the stage for ROTJ, and I knew there would be a happy ending in ROTJ, but I thought Lucas would give us even more depth and darkness before a climactic end. Instead, Lucas gave me a kiddie flick. Mind you, there were some aliens and costumes in ANH and TESB, but they were there as backdrop and did not get in the way of the story. In ROTJ, I felt like this WAS the story, especially the first 40 minutes or so dealing with Jabba, and it seemed like Lucas was beating you over the head with how weird and wonderful the special effects and costumes were for the aliens and other creatures. Lucas had run amok in the Muppet costume department and finally made the special effects extravaganza he had always wanted to make without the constraints of the studios and the meddling of others. It did not go over well with me at the time. (I was 13 when ROTJ came out. I was starting to lose interest in SW ever so slightly before ROTJ came out, but the kiddie-flick perception probably had a lot to do with my disappointment.)

3. The plot felt too contrived. Lucas forced the plots of four movies into one and tried to wrap it all up in one film. So ROTJ was a roller coaster. If you liked action movies, it was cool, but after TESB, which has been criticized by many here as too slow and boring, the nonstop action was a let down because it did not allow us to get to know the characters better. The film had to compress Han's rescue, the final space battle with the Empire, the truth about Anakin and the Skywalker family, and Luke facing Vader one last time into a single movie, so the action is nonstop with only small breathers for scenes that deserved much more screen time and attention. Yoda telling Luke who his father is, Obi-Wan's discussion of Anakin and Leia, and Luke's revelation that Leia is his sister are MAJOR turns in the trilogy, but they are dispatched summarily so the plot will keep moving along. There were a lot of loose ends to tie up, and they were, but it somehow did not play out in a satisfying way.

4. The second Death Star was unoriginal. You knew the Rebellion would blow it up just as they had done with the first.

5. Luke should have done more training with Yoda. Instead, he shows up right as Yoda dies and finds out he's a Jedi, except that he must face Vader again. What happened to the Yoda and Obi-Wan who begged him not to leave Dagobah in TESB? Vader whipped Luke in TESB and it was a learning e

 

I really Like ROTJ even though ESB is my fav. There really is no reason to hate it. Another thing I have realized, does being on a message board like this make you more of a cynic.

 

Basically, no one who hates ROTJ will post here, because unless you're looking for a fight... you probably don't read up on things you hate.

I think that the main problem with the Ewoks is that they are primitive, man-eaters that are portrayed as teddy-bears... If GL wasn't worried about the children in the audience, then you'd have seen less ridiculous antics by them and much more fierce attacks... such as arrows, sharp objects (possibly axes), blunt weapons (hammers). I think I recall seeing a small hammer used on a AT walker's leg, but COME ON! They'd have known better than that! They shoulda been using friggin' sledges on the troopers...

But, then again, I might never have gotten to watch it at that tender young age if the violence had been completely real... All in all, the space battle and lightsaber duel in it were exciting enough to keep me interested today. And, as a kid, I loved the ewoks... although I don't care for them much now.

 

What I find funny about the whole situation is the fact that everyone seemed to love ROTJ back in its day. I was thirteen years old upon its release and thoroughly enjoyed it. Sure, I was never crazy about the Ewoks, but I did not utterly despise them. Basically I wished that their cutesy factor would have been cut down a notch! Then again, I just chalked it up to Lucas trying to appeal to the female fans, LOL! I actually had a bit more of a problem with the muppets in Jabba's palace, but hey that is just me. The muppet syndrome only got worse with age!

These small nitpicks were shared by lots of friends, but in no way made us hate the movie or even like it on a lesser scale than the other two films. I was COMPLETELY oblivious to the fact that anyone actually hated the film. One day in the early 1990's, way before I had access to the internet, I came across a magazine with an article entitled "Fifty Reasons Why Return Of The Jedi Sucks". Naturally, I had to buy it. The article was a fun read and picked out lots of flaws in the films, while paying special attention to slamming Lucas for the Ewoks. It did not, however, change my long standing good opinion of the film. None-the-less, this marked my first awareness that there were those who hate this movie.

All I can say about the situation since those days is that the internet is to blame for the misrepresentation that this film recieves, as well as the prequels. You have a few blow hards who know more about Star Wars than Lucas does who got access to sharing their opinions with the world at a time when Star wars was re-emerging and being introduced for the first time to a new generation. This new generation (not all, mind you, but some) was quick to latch on to negative opinions and agree without giving it any true thought themselves. I truly believe this, because this hatred of ROTJ did not exist before on such a scale! These loud outcries of hatred always garner more attention than the praise from both the media and the readers, which re-enforces the "idea" that so many hate ROTJ when in actuality it simply is not true!

What is true is that the film suffers from a few flaws as described in previous posts, but fans were quick to accept the film anyhow. Just remember, most still do regardless of what the few loud voices of the negative internet says. The internet does not accurately reflect the true opinion of the world, but rather a very biased and opinionated attitude!

 

how very true... *applause*