Why do people hate that Fireplace scene so much?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Vodstok, May 24, 2002.

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  1. lisaordrigues Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    As many of you are already aware the collections of AOTC is dropping everywhere [at the time I posted this it stood at no.3 at the box office charts with 254 million] and people in the trade estimate it might barely touch 300 mill. Also I think it is an insult to the Star wars film that it is at no.3 and a relatively low budget film Divine secrets of Ya ya sisterhood is above it at no.2 and with sum of all fears at no.1 for the 2nd week. In the coming weeks there is going to be stiff competition from Windtalkers and minority report as well. So the chances of AOTC making a recovery and touching 300 mill seem very very bleak. Compare this with the box office collections of TPM which coolly netted around 431 million during it's run. I rmemebr when TPM was released many of you Star Wars fans were criticising it to be the worst Star Wars film ever. But in the end of the day it made enough money to become the 3rd highest grossing film ever in USA and 2nd highest grossing Star Wars film. Many of you people were praising AOTC sky high [I am sure amny of you received payola from Lucas and co to hype it] and said that it is the best Star wars film ever to be made. But when you check the box office gross and compare it with other Star wars films AOTC might probably end up as the lowest in box office gross among the Star wars films below ESB which netted 290 mill in 1980. When I saw AOTC at the theatre I realised that Lucas had made a film which'll only please a hardcore Star Wars fan and the average viewer might not like this film. I think my feelings are turning out to be true after seeing the low box office collections of AOTC. I also remember Lucas saying in an interview that if AOTC doesnt cross the 300 million mark then they might have a serious re think on EP3. There might be drastic changes in the script and budget and I dont know if this is true but there is also a possibilty he might not direct it.
  2. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
  3. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    I wanted to scream at Padme and say "say something". Her silences were so ackward. The fireplace scene wasn't great.
  4. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    dahveed72- Unfortunately, there are pages and pages of places where people keep saying they feel the scene comes out of nowhere. I was just trying to illustrate that it did not.
  5. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I think it's essential to establish that Anakin isn't crazy in thinking he and Padme will make the beast with two backs. The big piece of information implied in that scene is that Padme controlled the mood and the setting. She went into that room planning to seduce Anakin. The only thing that would be going through Anakin's mind is "I'm going to get laid! I'm going to get laid!"

    That's why it's wrong for the scene to start in the middle, with Padme applying the brakes. It needs to start at the beginning, with Padme undertaking the seduction followed by a panicked withdrawal when she thinks about the consequences.

    As written and edited, the scene plays like a tedious non sequitur. But it didn't have to.
  6. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Jabba,

    You have to remember who these people are. They aren't your average adolescents. Their setting isn't USA 2002. Sexy gowns have frequently been worn in romantic settings in movies that were not immediately indicative that the woman wants to do the wild thang or the man immediately interprets it that way. I'm remembering the scene in "My Fair Lady," where Audrey Hepburn floats (literally) gracefully down the stairs in the beautiful yet slinky gown. She looks positively regal and graceful and sexy. The Professor doesn't behave as if he should jump her bones, although it's obvious he hasn't had any in a long time. Think of other classic films where the leading lady is wearing a rather sexy gown that didn't immediately require her partner and her engage in sex. The list of such films is endless.
  7. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    *whispering* (methinks he's projecting) :D
  8. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, I mean, how many kids today grow up spending time at a "Legislative Youth Program"? Or for that matter, how many kids are trained from an early age to be a Jedi Knight?
  9. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    That's what the scene ought to do: get every adolescent in the U.S. to project himself into the situation. But it doesn't. That's why it falls flat. No one can identify with that scene on an emotional level because it doesn't ring true. It's inauthentic at every level.

    I agree somewhat that maybe overt sexual frustration is not an appropriate theme for Star Wars, and in any case could not be addressed freely by Lucas and still allow him to retain his PG rating.

    The need to address Anakin's frustration without really addressing it just means that Lucas wrote himself into a corner. He set the scene up for failure from the outset.

    Undomiel writes: "Think of other classic films where the leading lady is wearing a rather sexy gown that didn't immediately require her partner and her engage in sex. The list of such films is endless."

    But those movies are charming and well written. And try as you might, it is impossible to read out the sexual tension underlying "My Fair Lady."
  10. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    What Anakin says in the fireplace scene is what almost everyone feels when they have a "crush" on someone. The thing is, we don't usually say things like that to the person we have a crush on. However, if you look at what Anakin is saying in the context of a "semi-soliloquy", it becomes very powerful and something we can all relate to. GL probably didn't want to go too far and actually have Anakin give a real soliliquy to the audience. I think the scene is very unique, and just because it's different than most "Hollywood romances", doesn't make it bad, imho.
  11. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    jabba, im just gonna shut up from now on and let you make both our points for us. well said.

    And Undomiel, no offense, but WE GET IT. k? no need to explain, or cite other movies that many of us have seen over and over again.

    on a more positive not, i like your nickname.

  12. Lightsabel2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    lisaordrigues, who cares abuot how much it grosses? its still a great movie
  13. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    " think it's essential to establish that Anakin isn't crazy in thinking he and Padme will make the beast with two backs. The big piece of information implied in that scene is that Padme controlled the mood and the setting. She went into that room planning to seduce Anakin. The only thing that would be going through Anakin's mind is "I'm going to get laid! I'm going to get laid!"

    Because that is NOT what he is thinking. HE wants to be with the woman he loves, but it is not about sex. Why is it people always assume that love = sex. They do not!! He wants acknowledgement of his feelings, he wants to know that she loves him as much as he loves her. They want to be in each others arms and never let go, but they know the consequences of such a relationship would be disaster. HE would be out of the Jedi Order, her political career would be flamed down by scandel.

    Some of the most romantic couples in cinema don't end up in bed (on screen).

    Yes they have kids, so we know sex is involved duh!!, but true romance is about courting and establishing a relationship, not "lets get physical". He has too much respect to try and pull that kind of manuever on her.
  14. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Dahveed,

    Why thank you. :D

    Jabba,

    How can two people enjoy the same or similar classical films and then disagree so completely on another? We are an odd breed. I very much enjoyed AotC. It wasn't my favorite of the series but it was close, it was very, very close. ;)

    -Undomiel
  15. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    you really need to get out more IAM. And stop reading those dimestore romance novels.

    and again, if youre a kid, just ignore this big meanie.
  16. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Please don't insult me for disagreeing with you.

    And for the record I hate those stupid cheesy Harloquin romance novels.
  17. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    IamZam,

    What's a Harlequin Romance Novel? ;)
  18. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    PLJ,

    That was great overview of the scenes, btw. I enjoyed reading it.

    -Undomiel
  19. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Hey Undomiel,

    Something I hear women are supposed to be crazy about. ;) I wouldn't know? I think I may have picked one up once, but I couldn't read it, I was too busy running for the bathroom.

    But then what do I know, Girls arent' supposed to like Terminator, or Butch Cassidy either so perhaps I am not the best one to ask.

    :D
  20. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Undomiel,

    Yep, I'm sure we'd love a lot of the same movies. And I think AOTC is entertaining. It's just that Lucas set some ambitious goals for himself as a director and for the movie, most importantly creating a convincing romance between Luke/Leia's mother and the future Darth Vader.

    When Lucas contends with the dramatic and narrative challenge of a romantic scene by adding more oversized CG aardvarks, then I think his priorities are off.
  21. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    You like Arnie, too!? We have alot in common. The King of Incredibly Stupid and Rarely Serious One Liners. Nobody like Arnie.

    *imagine terminator music kicks in*
  22. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    sorry iam. I take it back. Most of those romance novels are better written than the romantic scenes in AOTC.

    I just had a thought: why do we need those scenes in the first place? There is absolutely no need to bring all the action in the movie to a screeching halt in order to nurture a relationship between Annakin and Padme. The most obvious proof of this is the OT, but there are numerous other examples. (didnt Lucas produce the Indiana movies? hmmm)
  23. DARTH_MAC Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 2
    Probally cause they are jealous they are not with Padme.
  24. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    well, to me she still looks like a teenage girl, and since im almost 30, that just doesnt do it for me. thank god.
  25. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    NOt so much Arnie, though he is fun to watch..I do love most of his action movies.

    I just like the story and I like Linda Hamilton's character. I also liked her in Beauty and the Beast. (*Gasp oh no, another Romance...eeep.. maybe I am a woman after all).
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