Why do people hate that Fireplace scene so much?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Vodstok, May 24, 2002.

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  1. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    "Appology accepted Captain Needa"

    Just kidding..

    The reason for this is because this is pivital part of the story. He needs to establish that these two character are so deeply in love that they would risk it all to be together, when convention, the law and the rest of the universe conspire to keep them apart.

    In order to set us up for the heart break of Anakin's eventual fall, part of which she will be the key to. In order for the fall in EPIII, and the redemtion in ROTJ, to matter we must care about this character in more ways than just a Great Jedi who chose the dark path.

    In order for his fall to have meaning we need to care about him before he surrenders completely to the rage and hatred that turn Anakin to Vader.
  2. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    conspire to keep them apart? they meet after 10 years. they spend a little time together. they get married. no problem.
    and again, please see like a thousand other movies where utterly tedious scenes are not necessary to develop a romance. Some examples are: the OT, the Indiana Jones flix, romancing the stone movies, etc....
  3. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Hey you like Romancing the Stone Wow!! I loved those movies, But the first one was definately better than the second, even if it did have a happily ever after ending.

    And the Indiana Jones ones as well (how can anyone not like Harrison), but I dont' really consider IJ romance movies, he had a different woman in each one, and the romance was just secondary plot to the story, and virtually non existant in the third one.

    But they are a romance that is not supposed to happen, but it does. They did get married in secret for a reason you know.
  4. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Dahveed,

    I think Zam is onto something. We need to fall in love with Anakin, emotionally, for all his awkwardness, his extreme emotions, his impulsiveness, indecisiveness, AND (this is the clincher, I think) for his weaknesses. Primarily because very soon, he's going to make the biggest mistake in Star Wars history and in so doing, become one of the most powerful men in the universe. We need to make an emotional connection with him and understand how he can go from a weak, awkward, love sick, teenager to Darth Vader, or else I'm guessing what transpires in Episode III will be too big of a transistion.

    Of course, I could be wrong. This is my best guess.

  5. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    please read Darth Siths(or is it darth sin?) thread for a more concise explanation of what im talking about. sorry you guys dont "get it".
  6. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Dahveed,

    My but you're a pleasant fellow. :D
  7. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Undomiel (one of these days I'll be able to spell that with out cheating..)
    hits the nail on the head.


    We must see him as more than just some Jedi who is a golden boy. We must care about him as a human being, with all the flaws and issues that come in the package. By doing so his fall to the dark side becomes much more traumatic. IT matters to us, because we do not want this character (well I don't) to do what we know he will do, what he is destined to do.
  8. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Can you post the link. I'm feeling rather lazy today.. (stupid head cold viruses!! I can't even spell today)
  9. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    dont know how. the thread is "how was it that Amidala was safe on her home planet?". read the last paragraph of his first post. and there are a couple more alon the same lines in that thread.
  10. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Dahveed,

    Okay, I read it. I see what you are saying but also think that GL is deliberately slowing down the scenes with Anakin, and especially with Anakin and Padme. Anakin is the central character of the entire saga. His relationship with Padme is pivotal to every decision he is about to make in Episode III. Star Wars IS about Anakin's rise, fall, and redemption. It would be hard to establish and focus on Anakin if he and Padme had their romance on the run. It wouldn't work. I'm sorry. At least, it wouldn't for me. Not that romances on the run don't work as a general rule, but we are talking about a huge saga and HE is the nucleus of it all. We gotta know him, up close and personal, in a quieter time, in a playful time, when his guard is down and he's spilling his guts to the love of his life.

    -Undomiel
  11. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    I think its safe to say that we got to know Han and Leia and their relationship VERY well after ESB. Its called acting and writing. You dont need a "garden of eden" setting to achieve what youre talking about. the "sw is a saga" excuse is just a copout. And if Lucas thought Ani and his love for Padme was so central, he wouldnt have spent 2 hours (TPM) NOT dealing with it. But then it was a huge mistake to start the prequels with a generic little-kid Annakin. what are u gonna do, eh?

    And u dont have to say Lucas was "deliberately" doing anything. It goes without saying. and believe me id love to think TPM and the first 90 minutes of AOTC WERE some horrible accident. Id be more hopeful for ep 3. Lets hope the rumours of him bringing in an a-list director/screenwriter are true. highly improbable of course.
  12. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Spielberg/Kasdan

    I'd like to see that one!! As long as it wasn't too tragic. I don't do tragedy. Can't wait to see Spielberg's "Minority Report"
  13. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    dahveed72 there's no way another Director can do Ep III. Not a chance in hell. Who else is going to know what George envisions in his head for all the things going on around the characters? NO way. I certainly wouldn't want another director doing EP III. I don't understand why people are getting so steamed over this whole debate.

    If you have complaints about the acting, or if the scene feels forced or feels flat, that is your perrogative. Trying to compare it to Leia/Han's romance is impossible and ridiculous. Totally different scenerios.

    The scene is about 2 inexperienced people battling their emotions vs. duty. It's supposed to be uncomfortable. They both know it's wrong, yet they fall in love anyways. That's it. That's the story. Go see it again and watch Natalie closely, she's got all this internal turmoil going on inside of her, Anakin is open and honest. The flames mirror their internal conflict and help make both of their eyes appear darker and more forboding. The dialogue is secondary to how the actors portray their discomfort. They don't know how to act on their feelings w/o changing their destinys forever. The scene is the breaking point for them. Anakin thinks he's lost, Padme knows she has lost her heart. Their fate is sealed.
  14. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    I think Dahveed just likes the pacing to move along. Slower pieces are not his cup of cocoa. That's a personal taste, it does not, however, indicate that GL got it wrong. I don't think GL likes slower pieces either but he needed to slow the pacing for this one. It was ........necessary. :D
  15. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    I suck at pasting photos... thought this was a good place to share this as we are discussing the "romantic" aspect...

    I guess if you want to see it's copy paste time!

    http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/maverickgrrl/vwp?.dir=/New+stuff&.dnm=Anakin+And+Padme%27.jpg&.view=t
  16. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    I have no problem with faster pacing in some movies. IT depends on the story. Some stories require a faster pacing, some require a slow pacing. SW usually has a fast pace, but in this case it manages to have both a slow and fast pace, which understandably some people may not like.

    That is fine. I'd hate to live where we all hve the same taste --- talk about boring.

    I dont think it is fair to compare Anakin/Padme to Han/Leia. They are very different people in very different situations, with very different backgrounds. If he had followed them, we would all (well some of us) be complaining that it was a rip off. I loved Han/Leia that doesn't mean I only like romances that follow that style.
  17. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    "She went into that room planning to seduce Anakin."




    ROFL!!!
  18. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    Seriously, it wasn't so much the lines but the acting especially Padme's.



    Maybe I should look at it from a viewpoint that Padme is unlike any woman that I've met in my lifetime. Ok I did that just now, *thinking back to the scene* Alright, the scene works better now.


    Here's a thought. Maybe the acting was so good that while I was expecting theatrical acting what I got was much more real. It is what would likely happen when two people are alone, saying the same things.
  19. Darth_Pseudomorph Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    "I think the lines/dialogues were meant to be stiff."

    If so, then Lucas did a good job. But I can't imagine that being his intent.

    Can anyone think of anything original to say about the dialog?

    Its not that hard. Its so obvious, you don't need any new buzz words. The dialogue is amateur quality, stale, prozaic, banal, contrived, cliche...use whatever word you like.

    Any viewer with an average education can spot "wooden" dialogue."
  20. Darth_Pseudomorph Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    "In order to create this ?old? feeling, he has written and directed TPM, AOTC, and presumably Episode 3, in the style of a 1930?s or 40?s film. This includes the highly criticized acting and dialogue of the prequels."

    Anyone with any genuine appreciation for the classics would never describe their artistry and ambience as an "'old' feeling." That is something a teenager would say. The "'old' feelings" of the classics is something any one can emulate. Put verb at the end of a few sentences, replace you with thee, you're with thy...etc...etc...etc. If Lucas was truly concerned with recreating the style of the 1930's or 40's films, the dialogue of the prequels would be infinitely better. This is an after thought, a justification for bad dialogue.
  21. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    a justification for bad dialogue.


    That's what I thought too.
  22. Darth_Pseudomorph Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Here's a thought. Maybe the acting was so good that while I was expecting theatrical acting what I got was much more real. It is what would likely happen when two people are alone, saying the same things.

    Boy, we are really groping. Honestly guys, would we say anything this absurd about any other film? "Gee, the audience lauged and groaned and the acting seemed so terrible because it was ACTUALLY SOOO GOOD!"

    Even I don't love Star Wars that much to defend it to such irrational extremes.
  23. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    quote:
    I think Dahveed just likes the pacing to move along. Slower pieces are not his cup of cocoa. That's a personal taste, it does not, however, indicate that GL got it wrong. I don't think GL likes slower pieces either but he needed to slow the pacing for this one. It was ........necessary.

    I appreciate that youre trying to give me "the benefit of the doubt" so to speak, but youre absolutely wrong. I enjoy MANY slow-paced films/books. Jim Jarmusch is one of my favorite directors, as is John Sayles. I love ALL kinds of movies in virtually every genre that exists. My criticisms are not about personal taste, but about the failings of a 3rd rate director/writer. The criteria that I use to reach this conclusion is the same criteria i use for EVERY film i see.

    That said, I am perfectly capable of enjoying a BAD movie despite or because of its failings. And having been a SW fan since the age of 4 (im 29), i have a soft spot in my heart reserved for these movies.

    I recieved dual bachelor's degrees in film and English Literature, which does NOT make me some kind of expert or authority, but should suggest to you that i have very broad tastes when it comes to those particular art forms.

    If i can get back on topic for a moment, the fireplace scene was just plain BAD. Poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly paced, and the dominatrix outfit was the unintentionally funny icing on the cake. And no, i have nothing per se against black leather skintight outfits. though it was a tad disturbing on a girl who still looks about 15 years old.
  24. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4
    I kinda liked it, lol.
  25. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    compared to other contemporary movies, i dont think AOTC is as a whole "slow-paced". it WAS strangely boring for much of the first half, but this was because we couldnt care less about much of what was happening. the PROBLEM with the slower moments is that Lucas' deficiencies as a writer and a director of actors becomes painfully clear whenever he has people standing around talking.

    The slower paced moments arent in and of themselves a bad idea. But since they werent absolutely necessary, Lucas would have been advised to move things along almost continuously.
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