Saga Why do people hate the prequels?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by QuiWanKenJin, Aug 5, 2010.

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  1. QuiWanKenJin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2005
    star 3
    The question is the title. No flaming allowed, take it someplace else. It has been 5 years since the prequels have wrapped. Let's go back in time to the end of the 20th century. When you went into the theaters in May 1999 what were you expecting? The second coming of your savior? I'll admit Episode 1 was okay, I didn't think it a tragedy, I thought I might had expectations a little to high. The good news was I came prepared thanks to Leonard Maltin. Now, I figured maybe by the time 2002 roles around the grumbling would stop. After all it's the Clone Wars. We've been waiting forever to know what the Clone Wars was about, ever since old Ben mentioned it in the film formerly known as StarWars. But no, people kept complaining, why? Sure there were a few lines that should have been left out, but I thought it was at least good. In 2005 I figured, great, it's the start of the Jedi purge and the great lightsaber battle between a Young Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi, that made Vader the machine man that we know him to be. After all we have been imagining what it would look like for years.


    But the people who've been grumbling since 1999, continued to grumble. Come on! Episode III was the best and far more emotionally impact-full than the other three films. Some critics even said, "it was the best of all six." I wouldn't go that far. But, did you grow up watching StarWars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi? And at the point you started understanding how to read Roman numerals, did you start to ask yourself: why does it say 4, 5 and 6? Where's 1,2 and 3? And after you get your wish, your disappointed? Why, did Jar Jar Binks screw it up for you? Of all the ungrateful jerks. I even heard people say, "I'd rather endure the StarWars Holiday Special than the prequels." G-d forbid. The Holiday Special was worse by far. Moreover, there is no I-VI Star Wars episodic movie series. There's the PT and then there's the OT. You wanted a back story, what's missing? I'm glad I am not still wondering, "what was that reference about?"



    By the way my favorite movie in the series was Episode VI Return of the Jedi, that's right. Star Wars freaking Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. Take that you PT, OT segregationalists. [face_shame_on_you]
  2. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I don't "hate" the prequels, but I definitely do prefer the original films (though I do like many aspects of the prequels too - the character of Qui-Gon Jinn, for example). I believe this is due to:

    1) I grew up with the originals

    2) the prequels, while filling the temporal space of a backstory to the OT, don't quite mesh with those films for me; emotionally, aesthetically, or plot... ly.

    That some hints of backstory and implied points in the OT don't match up in the way many expected is something that I don't think can be denied. Also, the focus on the "Chosen One" plot point kind of bothers me, as one of the themes I liked most about the OT was the idea that Luke made his own destiny - that destiny didn't actually exist as the Emperor and Vader saw it. The Chosen One point generates a sense of inevitability, which I don't like.

    TPM had some very nice design work, as did the latter ones, but the increasing use of in-your-face effects - many of them CGI, but not all - didn't do much to suspend my disbelief, and for me differentiated the two trilogies visually.

    Those are just a few examples. However, many people can gloss over those differences, while others get stuck on them. I can accept the prequels for what they are, but I would have loved to have seen a story hewing more closely to the hinted ideas, themes, and aesthetics of the OT.
  3. BigBadBane Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2010
    In 1999 when ep1 came out I was nine. I had seen all the other films and my favorite was also ep6 because being nine I liked the movie with the most action. when the prequels came out I was blown away ind ive loved them ever sence. The reason I think some people hate them is because its simply not what they grew up with. But to me there like ice cream they all have their own flavors just cuz you grew up on chocolate doesnt mean you should hate vanilla cuz ice creams good in any flavor.
    obi-rob-kenobi4 and FRAGWAGON like this.
  4. Gary_Buchenara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2009
    star 3
    It's not a question which is easily answered because there are so many different types of SW fans out there, with so many different reasons for their preferences. A very quick look through the boards here at any given time will demonstrate this. From what I read here, I'd say there are comparatively small number of people out there who unreservedly love or hate the prequels. Most people seem to enjoy some elements and be less impressed by others.
  5. Grand_Moff_Jawa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    Hate? It leads to the Dark Side. I don't hate the prequels. Disappointed? Absolutely. Why? Because George threw his own movie-making beliefs out the window.

    I remember seeing a video where George states that most sci-fi/fantasy movies fail because they spend too much time showing off their sets and effects. Well, that pretty much sums up what the prequels mean to me: flashy effects with very little character development. There isn't a single character (except maybe Qui-Gon) that I cared about in the slightest. Not even R2 and 3PO!

    It's like George did a 360 on his own approach to making movies.

    The prequels feel cold, empty and insincere to me.
  6. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    That goes back to something Howard Kazanjian said recently about how the PT's visual look was discussed back when they were making the OT. Basically, if the OT technology/look was to be 'World War II', then the prequels were to be the equivalent of 'World War I'. Instead, what happened was that the prequels (inexplicably) ended up looking like 'World War III'.
  7. AnakinBrego Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2004
    star 3
    I don't hate the prequels but I do I have my beef with them. Anakin in Episode 2 is so immature and arrogant and cocky I can't even stand him. I can't even see why Padme likes him. He's a great character in the Clone Wars though. I don't like how Yoda gave up his fight in Episode 3 with Palpatine. I'm not a hater, I just see the last two films in their current state and I wish them well. I just want to watch the films where I don't see them as being bad, and I just want to say to myself when watching them, "yeah that works!" They don't have to masterpieces they just need to work. In the Clone Wars series the stories and characterizations work, all I want is for them to be working films! :( I think George is really incapable of taking in any criticism. What does his close colleagues think? What does De Palma, Spielberg, Coppola, Scorsese, Murch, Howard think of his films? Maybe they need to do an intervention on the old guy!


    In the original Trilogy there's sloppy new things in there that make no sense, like Vader flying to his Star Destroyer at the end of ESB, it feels tacked on, it doesn't fit in editorially. Also Vader line, "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival." in the delivery of the line Vader sounds like a gigolo.
  8. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    ROTS is the only SW film that Coppola likes.
  9. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    It took me a hell of a lot longer to appreciate the OT than the PT. I had immediately fell in love with the PT. It wasn't quite the case with the OT. But I love both trilogies.
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  10. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Makes sense, given that he also hasn't directed a really good movie since the 70s...;)
  11. ida_dida Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 1
    I wasnt born when the OT came out. I was "raised" with the PT and i like it more than the OT.
    I think that people dont like the PT that much coz:

    1)They already knew how the story was going to end.I mean that, they didnt find it exciting enough to see and watch it. They were just expecting to see the reason why Anakin fell to the dark side.

    2)They expected sth else and they saw sth else.For example,
    i have heard that people, when the OT came out, thought that Owen and Obi Wan were brothers and thats what they expected to see or that Obi's master was Yoda.

    3)The performances weren't good enough for them. Guys please! I hear over and over again that Hayden was not good etc. Why hasnt anyone ever said sth bad about Mark Hammil's scream when Vader tells him that he is his father?! The look on his face is hilarious.For me, it ruins the whole scene.

    ok,i know that many won't agree with what i wrote.But i think that the whole critisism that the PT has gained its completely unfair.If people had watched the saga from episode 1 to episode 6 and not 4-5-6...1-2-3 would agree with me.
  12. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Since I grew up with the OT, I did watch the films first in "4-5-6...1-2-3" order. But now I enjoy the Saga, and I agree with you that most of the criticism levelled at the PT is unfair.
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  13. ida_dida Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 1
    GL made Anakin's character like that. But people still blame Hayden for his portraytion! I mean, when the quotes you say go like this "Its all Obi's fault! He is jealous!he is holding me back!" you cant blame Hayden for playing him that way!
    The dialogs (especially the "romantic" ones, if anyone can call them romantic...) were a complete disaster.
  14. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I don't hate the PT. Was I disappointed with their quality? Sure, but that's no big deal. I was disappointed by Mars Attacks, too. I can deal with not liking a particular movie.

    But there are two PT-related issues I find incredibly frustrating:

    1. The way everything else in the franchise has been warped to kowtow to the PT. For the most part, this falls into the category of annoying-but-understandable. Obviously the EU was going to start involving concepts, characters, and locations from the PT.

    But in far too many places the PT was simply shoe-horned in (beginning back in the NJO, when Luke's Jedi out of the blue began referring to their apprentices as Padawans, even though it was firmly established in the previous decade of EU that Luke had built his Order from scratch and had very little knowledge of traditional Jedi ways. Yes, I'm picking on a small change here, but I single it out because it was the pebble preceding the rock slide.

    That rock slide, of course, is the LotF series, where the powers-that-be apparently thought, "Hey, you know those post-RotJ books that people keep buying because they're interested in more OT-style stories about Luke, Han, and the gang? Let's make them all about Boba Fett, clones, and a rehash of Anakin's turn in the PT!"

    But these EU issues pale in comparison to the fact that it's impossible to get a decent version of a Hayden-less RotJ. I'm fine with saying, "I like the old stuff but not the new stuff, so I'll just stick with the old stuff," but when the old stuff gets taken away by the producer's fervor for the new stuff, THAT's when I start to resent the new stuff.

    2. The relentless efforts of PT fans to try rationalizing away the opinions of those who don't love the PT.
    There are even some examples of this above me in this very thread. This is not something unique to the PT; it happens in a lot of fandoms. But it somehow seems more pronounced here. I'm tired of being told that the only reason I dislike the PT is because I expected X or Y but got A and B. I certainly don't go around saying, "The only reason you liked the PT is because you went in WANTING to like it; you would have enjoyed anything as long as it said Star Wars on the title screen." Sure, this is actually probably true for a minority of PT fans, but I'm not going to be so insulting as to paint the whole lot with such a broad brush. I just wish those on the other side would show the same courtesy.
  15. ida_dida Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 1
    Okay, i am sorry for not writing that not everyone thinks that "the only reason I dislike the PT is because I expected X or Y but got A and B" but i thought it was pretty obvious that we were talking about the majority here, since even the title of the thread is about the majority.Not everyone hates the prequels.
    And here we are discussing reasons of why people might hate the PT. There are some people who hate it about that.I've read it somewhere else before.
  16. Blame_It_On_Lucas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2004
    Oh man.

    I think I can provide an interesting view. *patting myself on the back*

    I like this topic, so MAYBE I'll write a longer post to follow up and this post will act as an introduction. Then again I don't wanna bore anyone at all.

    So I'll sum it like this:

    I HATED TPM and AOTC. Hate hate hate it. And I was well into the way of hating the Prequel Trilogy in general. The PT doesn't hold a CANDLE to the OT is what I used to tell my friends.

    Then Revenge of the Sith happened. Damn I still hate TPM and AOTC (still haven't seen AOTC for a second time yet) but I absolutely adore Revenge of the Sith. I love this movie and when I'm bored in the house it gets equal amounts of playtime as ESB.

    So I kind of hate the prequels. But hell, I think Revenge of the Sith is REAL close to ESB as my favorite, if not a tie.

  17. Darth Kruel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    I could never hate any of the SW films. The prequels were brilliant. It was tremendous story telling at its best. I enjoyed The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith.
    FRAGWAGON likes this.
  18. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    The prequels suffer from Apple Jacks syndrome. We were promised an Apple flavored cereal, it turned out to be Apple Cinnamon flavored (at least in theory). They're covered in pointless confetti. And asked why we like them, the only reply we can think of is "We just do." Besides, there are clearly apple-related ingredients listed on the side of the box. So there.

    On a side note, I think the original trilogy is going through a Coke II phase. I predict that there will come a day when the original original trilogy will be given a decent remaster and release on hi-definition media. Which will of course break records in Blu Ray sales. Lucas will be hailed as a marketing genius, play dumb like he hadn't planned on it being such a success, and will laugh all the way to the bank.
  19. Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2009
    star 3
    The same with me. It sums it up all well. Story wise and visually, the OT came first and set the tone for many of us, and the PT was by many aspects a U-turn from this.
  20. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4

    Hate is how I know I'm alive.
  21. Ethantk12 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2010
    I'm only 15, but I grew up with the OT, and was there to see each PT movie on opening night, and I wouldn't say I "hate" the prequels, but they were dissappointing in many ways.
    George Lucas was far more interested in new technology and flashy FX than he was in good acting, good storytelling, and good character development. I love the prequels because Im a huge Star Wars fan, but let's face it. Episode 1 is not a good movie. the FX are awful, the dialogue is terrible, the storyline is pointless, etc.

    George should have let someone else direct the PT. He is clearly too old now to match the OT. Just look at what clone wars has done, it tops anything in the PT
    UseTheForceLady likes this.
  22. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    But i think that the whole critisism that the PT has gained its completely unfair.If people had watched the saga from episode 1 to episode 6 and not 4-5-6...1-2-3 would agree with me.


    I saw 4-5-6 first, long before I saw 1-2-3. Yet, I still love the prequels and the saga as a whole.


    I love the prequels because Im a huge Star Wars fan, but let's face it. Episode 1 is not a good movie. the FX are awful, the dialogue is terrible, the storyline is pointless, etc.


    There was awful dialogue in all six movies. Hell, there is awful dialogue in all three LOTR movies. And the worst acting I have seen was in ROTJ. I have to face it that Episode 1 was the worst? Since when? Because you think so? Sorry, I don't think that way.
    FRAGWAGON and Valairy Scot like this.
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    By today's standards they seem dated, but the FX were considered state-of-the-art at the time. And the storyline of TPM was far from pointless, but it did seemingly expect the audience to interpret the rescue of Naboo as a happy ending, although the audience had never heard of the planet before and didn't have any particular reason to care all that much about it. ( Of course, we know the real point was Palpatine's ascension. )
  24. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    And the storyline of TPM was far from pointless, but it did seemingly expect the audience to interpret the rescue of Naboo as a happy ending, although the audience had never heard of the planet before and didn't have any particular reason to care all that much about it.


    Uh . . . you're wrong. Especially since the ending of TPM made it clear that Palpatine became the new chancellor and that both Yoda and Mace were contemplating on whether Maul was a Sith apprentice or a Sith Lord; and on the identity of another Sith presence.

    You may not have cared about Naboo. I DID when I first saw the movie. Don't assume that everyone felt the same as you.



    The relentless efforts of PT fans to try rationalizing away the opinions of those who don't love the PT.


    This sounds like an excuse to insult those who actually enjoyed the PT. I hope I'm wrong.
  25. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    The relentless efforts of PT fans to try rationalizing away the opinions of those who don't love the PT.

    This sounds like an excuse to insult those who actually enjoyed the PT. I hope I'm wrong.


    This sounds like you didn't bother reading the rest of the post wherein I clearly state that I'm talking about both sides respecting each others' honest responses (positive OR negative) to the films. I hope I'm wrong.
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