Saga Why do people hate the prequels?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by QuiWanKenJin, Aug 5, 2010.

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  1. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    People hate the prequels because its "hip" to do so. The hate mongering has grown so loud and powerful that they can bend any positivity towards the PT and make it negative. Lots of cranky people who feel the need to be "above" others.

    Its one thing to dislike a movie, but its madness to let it consume you. To get pleasure from it. To try and bring others down because they disagree with you.

    The above text describes the most psychotic behavior these PT haters partake in.

    You don't like the prequels? Fine. But don't insult me because I like them. Thankfully people on this forum don't fall into the psychotic hater category. That is reserved for IMDB.
  2. Plebeian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    Hah, IMDB.
    Never will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
  3. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Other than youtube.....
  4. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I forgot about Youtube. It is on a nearly identical level of wretchedness.
  5. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    Concerning the bending of positivity into negative. Remember that 100 plus rebuttal of RLM TPM review? Lots of people replied with "Butt-hurt fanboy TL:DR" "this person has no life" insulting the creator's genitalia and other degrading insults of the sort.

    Just like that, all that effort was twisted into being something that couldn't be taken seriously.

    Or that yahoo article about the prequels being better, the author was torn apart in the comments with senseless behavior.

    Its appalling to me that these movies stir such hatred. There is some underlying issue that I can't understand. I mean I was very disappointed with the Hobbit: an unexpected journey, but I would never tell someone to quit film school because they liked it.
    Last edited by BoromirsFan, Feb 4, 2013
  6. Darth_Monkey_Boy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Thankfully indeed! After my experience in a "Star Wars" thread on another website a few days ago, I would (and did) ask, "Why does it bother the "Prequel Dislikers" that there are a group of us that enjoy all 6 movies?" I understand that there are those who hate that the original theatrical versions aren't available in an up-to-date format (I wouldn't mind having them myself), but why drop into any and every thread on "Star Wars" only to post how they think the prequels are garbage? It's not like attacking saga fans is gonna make Lucasfilm suddenly change their minds and give them what they want. So, why not go after Lucasfilm, or Disney, with a MAJOR letter writing campaign instead of wasting time going after other fans? I mean, these guys obviously aren't afraid of some typing.

    Although, when it comes to reading... well... that seems to be a whole different story. On the other site I was made fun of for creating a post that had been deemed too long ("Brevity is wit!" I wasn't trying to be "witty"), and a racist picture was posted for rebuttal to my question. (I'm sure they didn't realize they were talking to a black man, but there was no cause for it, and I am happy to say a moderator later went in and deleted the offensive post). They even took a single sentence out of each of my posts and quoted them out of context. All of this strikes me as quite insane since a forum is a place for discussions, but they don't seem to want to "discuss" anything; they wanna tell you what's on their mind, and to Hell with what's on yours.

    I do not go into every "Harry Potter" thread attempting to belittle anyone who enjoys the films (The Wife dragged me to the first 3 before I finally dug my heels into the ground and refused to sit through anymore). I stay as far away from "Twilight" threads as is humanly possible, and couldn't care less that it has fans (if I'm gonna watch a movie with "pretty vampires", it's gonna be either "The Lost Boys" or "Interview with a Vampire"). I love "Jaws", and find its sequels to be inferior in every way, but I don't hold anything against their fans. What I'm saying is that I just don't quite understand why a lot of strictly "OOT" fans feel that it's their duty to inform every saga fan that they are wrong in every way for liking the movies. (By the way, "One mans troll is another mans truth speaker.", makes no sense. Opinions are not "truth".) I find it rather odd that they would devote themselves to films that they obviously can't stand.
    Not only, as proven from my experiences. The hate freely flows to anyplace where "Star Wars" has a thread of discussion taking place. It's as if these people are actually looking for them, or that they just can't help themselves when they happen to see "Star Wars" in the title!
  7. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    I don't 'hate' the Prequels. That'd be a waste of time and energy. I just think they could have been executed much, much better with the resources on disposal, particularly 2 & 3 after the risk of 1 (not that I think there was ever really a risk. Star Wars is like Grand Theft Auto or Metallica, it's a part of culture that would have always made more money than sense) and Lucas tried to go into dictator mode without stopping to think how much better it could have been to not surround himself with Yesmen. His story and vision for the prequels is amazing, but the execution was majorly flawed. I can't remember the last time I watched any of the three prequels and I'm not in any desire to do so. I'd rather read the ROTS novelization and the Dark Horse comics set in the period. The dialogue makes me embarrassed to be watching, the lightsaber duels looked more like Strictly Come Dancing than a matter of life and death and there are far too many inconsistencies to the original films.

    That said there was a lot of stuff I did like. The music was incredible. I really liked the young(er) Palpatine/Sidious and I thought Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor were great as Qui Gon and Obi Wan, Coruscant was perfect.

    It's just really easy to forget things that you do like when you have Jar Jar Binks barging into your minds eye and remember things like the riveting discussion of sand or dying of a broken heart.

    I'm not gonna hate on someone for liking them. That's just ridiculous. But don't try to insist your own opinions and feelings on them onto me. I just didn't like the films. There might have been a point where I did, but not anymore.

    But if I were born 5 years later than I was I'd probably love the Prequels. Wouldn't have the OT nostalgia clouding my thoughts.
    Last edited by Rawne, Feb 4, 2013
  8. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    The peculiar thing about many--not all--Prequel critics is that they've retained their overzealousness even when they're in a dominant and enviable position: dominant, insofar as holding a view popular amongst writers within mass media; enviable, as in having the luxury of looking to the animated Clone Wars series and the forthcoming Sequel Trilogy to ameliorate disappointment. In essence, they clearly won the battle for hearts and minds. Despite this, they just keep hammering a minority of vocal fans, taking the tinkle out of anyone who professes affection for one or all of the new films.

    They remind me of the right-wing media personalities who claim America's Christian heritage is being destroyed by a secular, atheist liberal cabal, despite all contrary evidence.
  9. Darth_Monkey_Boy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Is there any real basis for this comment? I've read it over and over again, but how do we, as audience members, know this? Or is this going strictly by what Kurtz has said?

    I honestly can't understand the hate ol' Jar Jar gets. Yeah. He has a pretty juicy role in the first, but it diminishes with each movie (to where he only has a single line in "ROTS": "'Scuse me."). Instead of people being (for lack of a better word) grateful for this, they seem to get even more bitter. On the sand line, it has been pointed out that there was never a "discussion of sand". It was a single line that has been blown way out of proportion. A discussion would've been more along the lines of Padme saying she likes it. Anakin saying he doesn't. Padme giving a rebuttal. Anakin giving his. Etc., etc. Also, I don't think the line was ever supposed to be "riveting". I'll give you Padme's death scene. I can't say that it's my favorite part of the sequels, but I can understand what GL was trying to say with it.

    I don't believe that this is the goal of any Saga fan. (Or at least most of the ones I know anyway.) You have given your reasons for hating 'em, is it so wrong that others give theirs for loving them? In the end, it should be common knowledge that we are never going to change each others mind, but we should still be able to have a decent conversation about the pros and cons. Otherwise, what's the point? Why even participate in a discussion if feedback isn't wanted or desired?
    FRAGWAGON, Chels, Samnz and 3 others like this.
  10. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    I'm just going off my own personal impressions from the behind the scenes footage I've seen (documentaries, the commentaries etc). It may have no basis in fact and could all be in my head. It just seems to me that there was no-one on the production staff who's job it was to play devils advocate.

    It is pretty nonsensical isn't it. They're just the first thing that pops into my head when I think of the Prequels. Not the awesome parallels between the Bush administration and the rise of the Empire. Not the glittering spires of Coruscant.

    It's a single line, yeah. But it's a pretty godawful line.

    Though my "riveting" line was meant to be acidic in it's sarcasm. Real shame we can't put tone into words on the Internet.

    I don't believe that this is the goal of any Saga fan. (Or at least most of the ones I know anyway.) You have given your reasons for hating 'em, is it so wrong that others give theirs for loving them? In the end, it should be common knowledge that we are never going to change each others mind, but we should still be able to have a decent conversation about the pros and cons. Otherwise, what's the point? Why even participate in a discussion if feedback isn't wanted or desired?[/quote]

    It's not that feedback isn't wanted. It's just rare that I have a discussion (in person or on the Internet) with a die-hard Prequel fan where some kind of elitism hasn't come into play if I dare say something negative, where I'm accused of "Not getting it" or "it's George's artistic vision! He can do what he wants!". Same with Original die-hards when I'm saying something about the Prequels that I like (i.e. "You're too young, you weren't there in 77 man!"), It just seems to me that there's a lot of people on all sides who bury their heads in the sand when it comes to both trilogies. Each side wont concede an inch and discussions go around in circles and everyone has forgotten that it's simply opinions. It's treated too seriously. There should absolutely be discussion about why people like them, I'd just prefer it if it didn't always lead to the exact same conversation everytime.


    I don't know, I'm just a Star Wars fan. But I'm also willing and able to step away and notice all the ridiculous, insane and negative stuff. Doesn't mean I love Star Wars any less.
    Monkey_Boy likes this.
  11. Pearlsaber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2013
    star 4
  12. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    But every now and then, there appears a little light at the end of the tunnel.

    Check this video out first of all:

    (Via CBS News Online)



    GEORGE LUCAS: The legal system, the financial system, the political system, they're all based on 'winner take all'. That's not a good society, that's not a good culture. That's a culture that is built out of a cavemen mentality where the guy with the bigger hammer wins.

    CHARLIE ROSE: And you want to see a society that is defined -- how? By everybody comes out...

    GEORGE LUCAS: By compassion. By saying, we care about everybody in our society, and what we want to do is what's *best* for everybody *in* the society, and we want to build the best society where everybody gets the best possible life they can possibly have.

    CHARLIE ROSE: And would you call this democracy? Would you call this, um, socialism? Would you call this some other "-ism" that we don't have a name for?

    GEORGE LUCAS: I'd call it common sense.

    =D= ^:)^ [face_party]

    And scrolling down, I then happened upon this comment, immediately below:

    There is still the tiniest bit of hope for the denizens of YouTube yet!
  13. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Hear hear! =D=
  14. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Conspiracies are gonna' conspire, man......


    Just call us O-OT fans "Satan" and get it over with.....


    Oh, the irony. I couldn't have described PT/SE "defenders" better, myself.


    The above text 'describes' what YOU happen to believe...full of buzz-words and fan-speak ("haters", etc.).


    Well, you've already insinuated that us O-OT fans only feel the way we do because it's "hip" to do so.....so your "thankfully" sop above re: IMDB does little to ameliorate that.



    Regards,

    Steve "COL. BASHER" TOSCHESTATION
    Last edited by TOSCHESTATION, Feb 4, 2013
  15. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    Strange, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about youtube and Imdb. I don't recall bashing fans of the O-OT in that post, or even bringing it up.

    It was directed at those who would insult people because of their taste of SW movie. You haven't done so, so It wasn't directed at you.
    Last edited by BoromirsFan, Feb 4, 2013
  16. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    TOSCHESTATION, please lets not bring the ad-hominum attacks into this wonderful place. Its nicer without it.

    Also, a couple guys are bringing in real-world political comparisons....I don't like that so much.
    BoromirsFan likes this.
  17. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Watch any footage featuring Rick McCallum. There's a reason he's disappeared.
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yes. He became "one with the Force".
  19. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    [face_laugh]@janstett and Arawn_Fenn.


    Is it "ad-hom" if I call MYSELF "COL. BASHER"? :p


    I second that.
    Last edited by TOSCHESTATION, Feb 5, 2013
  20. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    Is there any real basis for this comment? I've read it over and over again, but how do we, as audience members, know this? Or is this going strictly by what Kurtz has said?

    ---

    stick on any bonus disc on the PT
    Last edited by Sistros, Feb 5, 2013
  21. Darth_Monkey_Boy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2008
    I'll admit that McCallum was a tad... enthusiastic, but aren't producers supposed to be excited about a project that they're funding? (Also, if he disappeared for this reason, wouldn't that mean that GL isn't surrounding himself with these "Yes Men"?) I've never really heard of them stepping in and changing things without the movie straying from what the director had originally intended. I'll admit that I haven't watched 'em in a while, but I never got the impression that everyone seems to be afraid of him. From what I remember, watching the extras on either set shows Lucas surrounded by people that want to help him make his movie. To be honest, his featurettes and documentaries seemed to be no different than other DVD sets.
    Last edited by Monkey_Boy, Feb 5, 2013
  22. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    This is the best collection of Lucas comments I have ever seen:



    Watch the whole thing and its like he is frankly telling you his story from start to finish and what kind of filmmaker HE is. How he prefers "pure cinema" style rather than the much more common "talking heads" stile. Also make sure you listen to what he says at 18:33 with regards to how annoying it is for any artist to have people who dont even know what it is your trying to put together constantly yelling at you trying to tell you what to do and trying to TAKE your art away from you to make it into something THEY understand/like better. Its exactly what fanboys today all do with this stubborn obsession with collective ownership over Star Wars that exists on the internet and is kept alive on the internet. This is what Saga fans are always trying to tell bashers/the right wing SW caucus/whatever you want to call yourselves.

    For example Lucas's whole theme of visual metaphor in the mirroring and paralleling which gos on throughout the Saga needs to be consistent for his vision to become reality like it did. Example: The shot in Episode 1 looking down on Obi-wan holding Qui-gon is meant to perfectly mirror the shot in Episode 6 of Luke holding Vader after he killed palpatine. Also being the bookends of the saga they have to mirror each other even more in lots of ways. Thats why certain things have to be executed his way because its HIS VISION. And we all know there are literally hundreds of other examples all over the Saga exactly like this.

    Another example: When a small but relentlessly loud demographic of fanboys complain because TPM is "too light" its because they dont understand (or even care) about having TPM be the "Jedi/lightside" Episode so you can have ROTS be the "Sith/darkside" Episode with AOTC being the "middle act/grey/ambiguous" film in between the JEDI and SITH films complete with a yin-yang symbol in the sky as Anakin meditates. Its planned out/things/concepts/themes like this that angry voices on the internet always seem to disregard/ignore.

    Thats also the BIG difference between the OS (Original Saga) and ST (Sequel Trilogy). The OS was (very much for the most part) planned out in many ways by a singular and very passionate vision while the ST is being totally made up on the fly by a bunch of strangers and abruptly at the last minuet AND being RUSHED OUT to boot! There is no way that some kid named J.J. Abrams and a bushiness woman is going to be able to make anything more than a fan service homage to what George Lucas and thousands of other creative artists did with the Original Six Film Star Wars Saga.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Feb 5, 2013
  23. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Also around 30:00 in that video he starts talking about his passionate belief in symbiosis (The main theme of TPM) and he even uses a perfect Jar-jar analogy in relation to this (if you help the little frog on the side of the rode good things will happen to you exc.). Fans of George Lucas's SW Saga have been saying this over and over to the "SW right wing" but they keep finding ways/excuses to reject it/ignore it/deny it. Well here is the guy sitting there telling you right out, explaining and defending his artistic intention and stile.

    So honestly, if you dont like what your hearing when you watch him explain it in that video than you cant logically call yourself a SW fan. It would be like a person finding out in a video that the reason why the painting is mostly blue is because the artist loves blue and stands by his artistic intention but then the person who just watched the video will keep on complaining because the painting is not a different color.

    And we are saying "But you cant hate blue and still say you are a fan of blue at the same time because you just happen to somehow know better about the color blue than others because you already mastered the knowledge of the color blue and feel that blue is beneath you and more fun to make fun of than to take seriously." We are saying "This is for people who like blue not people who fundamentally disagree with blue and have no tolerance for blue." Thats really the best analogy.

    Its just so amazing to me because if you look at the comment section of that youtube video you see what is nothing more complicated than a bunch of ignorant punks who simply want to make fun of the people who have appreciation for SW. Another words bullys. The thing that has always hurt SW fans going back 33 years IS STILL HURTING SW FANS. The only difference is that they turned in their jock Letterman jackets for keyboards. --And too many fans dont even realize this! So the bottom line is that SW is under attack (like it always has been) from angry people who want to take collective ownership over it.

    This is one of the most basic, simple reasons why the whole "Hateboy movement" (or whatever you wish to call them/it) is fundamentally wrong to be apart of and follow. Its based on being proud of ones own ignorance. Its based on old, tired exaggerations and lots of the time flat out LIES. Its about fancying yourself as being "apart" of a movement AGAINST the MAIN artists creative and artistic intentions of his own work.

    Thats what it is. Its an "us against the big bad tyrant we made up" mentality.

    See all the people in that youtube comment section who are bashing and carrying on...all of them...think of George Lucas not as what he is in reality but as the George Lucas on South Park, the George Lucas THEY MADE UP. The big bad, old, out of touch, evil, greedy guy whos "only in it for the money" who is somehow, some way responsible for all of their frustrations with SW and pop culture and technologies. Because its easier and more fun to think of him this way. The way that has been created and established by GEEK-CULTURE and not by REALITY.

    They aren't interested in the REAL George Lucas. The visually and creatively brilliant hippy philanthropist who spreads and promotes good morals through his timeless art and makes it possible for other young artists to do the same. The bashers dont want to know about that guy. Hes not fun or easy to make fun of. But heres the only thing that Saga fans have a problem with: The bashers dont want ANYONE ELSE to know about that guy either!

    What they love to promote (as you can see by taking one look at that youtube pages comment section) is loud, automatic and unapologetic hate towards George Lucas and HIS Star Wars Saga.

    This is what defines the struggle. This is the reality that you read and see every day all over. The people who know about and like SW and the people who give them a hard time FOR it. Thats really all it is at the end of the day.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Feb 5, 2013
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  24. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I appreciate the PT regardless of its flaws. They're fun movies while not being as tonally coherent as the OT. Yeah the script kinda sucks, but I still enjoy watching them from time to time.
  25. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentational_and_representational_acting

    There is nothing wrong with "the script" it was written as a Romantic stile play. Presentational Style acting to complement the visuals. Because remember Lucas Doesn't use the "Talking head" style of film making he uses the "pure cinema" style which relays mostly on the visuals and sound/music more than anything else.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Feb 5, 2013
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