Saga Why do people hate the prequels?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by QuiWanKenJin, Aug 5, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
  1. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Huh. Never thought of it that way. Thanks for the link.
  2. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    You can thank me by re-posting it somewhere else and like yoda said: "Pass on what you have learned..."

    ;)
    Cryogenic and Jarren_Lee-Saber like this.
  3. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    My previous post aside, Who do people hate the prequels?

    Opinions vary, a lot. Some flock to it with blind adulation, unwilling to admit or acknowledge the existence of faults within the Prequel trilogy, becoming almost militant in it's defense, branding critics and even other less enthused fans as haters and hateboys. While others take the opposite approach and don't see any redeeming qualities whatsoever. In my opinion they are flawed as movies and disappointing as Star Wars films. But despite this I'd happily sit down and watch ROTS, it's by far the better of the three, and even TPM and AOTC have some good moments. I quite enjoyed the soundtracks and thoroughly enjoyed some of the performances, such as Ewan McGregor and Ian Mcdermaid. But do I hate them? No. Hate is wasted on trivial things like movies.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  4. Darth Balls Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Cryogenic likes this.
  5. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    One of the best (and most famous) interviews ever documented:

    He covers everything. Take it from him.
    Cryogenic likes this.
  6. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Says he doesn't like talking heads style cinema.

    90% of all conversations in Prequels are shot/reverse shot talking heads scenes.
  7. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I figure in about 5 years or so, people will start to obtain a better appreciation of the PT.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I don't think there will be much change until the current generation of haters dies off.
  9. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Obviously, the solution is to wait for death. Wait, what?
    Last edited by Darth_Zandalor, Feb 5, 2013
  10. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I am not "blindly" defending these films. I defend them because I love them. I see the "flaws" people point out, but they don't bother me. I wasn't really an avid defender of the prequel trilogy until someone told me to quit film school because I loved the films. Since then I come here and post my thoughts, but I don't really do it that much outside of this forum. Its exhausting and not worth even putting any bit of effort. I talk about these films because I find joy in them, they have inspired me to pursue my current path. Without the star wars prequels I wouldn't be in this field.

    I fact, TPM and AOTC are never my highest ranked of the films. I just love all the star wars films, and if the OT was attacked i would defend it too. My only complaint about the prequels is I feel a few deleted scenes in particular would add more to the films. There were some great stuff left out.
  11. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    How is the acting in the PT "Presentational"? This is a style of acting, used mostly in the theatre, that in some form or another acknowledges the audience. Either by breaking the Fourth Wall and talking directly to the audience or acting in some way that makes it clear that the audience is there. There are nods to the OT found in the PT but those things wasn't that much in how the actors performed their parts but through visual hints or the occasional line.
    At no point in the PT are the actors talking directly to the audience like in Richard the Third. Or turning and winking to the audience or things like that. In cinema the Presentational type of acting is harder to do as there is no audience there, nothing to play off.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
    TOSCHESTATION and Yunners like this.
  12. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    "At no point in the PT are the actors talking directly to the audience like in Richard the Third. Or turning and winking to the audience or things like that"

    :eek: :rolleyes:

    Tell ya what, watching militant bashers squirm when confronted with reasons to enjoy the first half of the Saga is MUCH more entertaining than any movie ever could be.

    Its very presentational in BOTH the first half and 2nd half of the Saga. We see people (in both halves) practically raising their arms as they deliver lines almost as if they are singing the dialogue along to the music. Star Wars has always been MUCH like a play in many more ways than one.

    They get up there on stages and limited sets dressed up in costumes and raise their arms popping out their chest delivering pulpy lines about "The Power Of The Force" and so on. They do this while ignoring the blue/green screens the same EXACT way normal actors need to block out the audience when on a stage doing a play. In the Special features disc of AOTC none other than Christopher Lee himself talks about this in detail and gos on to defend this aspect of SW going as far as to say anyone who cant dress up and do this must not be a good actor. Not his exzact words but go watch it, thats what the guy basically says. I would have threw on my old dvd so I could have provided the exact quote but then I immediately remembered how futile and absolutely useless it is to provide things like evidence, facts and documented history to fanboys online. Quite frankly you aren't worth the 2 min of my time that it would take. So go learn on your own if you even have the dvd.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Feb 6, 2013
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  13. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I don't know that I would say any of the films in the Saga utilize presentational acting, obi-rob, but I do think there are presentational elements within the films.

    Lucas often films in a more documentary-style than a lot of other directors in that he doesn't utilize slow motion or flashbacks, for instance, as narrative devices. In that sense, I do think the PT films have presentational elements in that there's a meta-acknowledgement of the audience. But the characters themselves don't really seem to "lean on the fourth wall" at all. There's a very deep sincerity in all of Star Wars' acting that I think is an important part of what makes it engaging, even if it can seem a bit corny to some.
  14. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    How is this an answer to my question?

    You said that the acting in the PT is Presentational and gave a link. From what that link said and from what I understand Presentational to mean, the acting in the PT doesn't really seem to fit. So I asked a simple enough question, how is the acting in the PT Presentational? You could have given some examples or reasons why you think this.

    But instead you didn't bother to answer my question and gave some insults instead.
    Until you are able to respond in a calm, non-insulting way, I am not going to bother talking to you.

    Bye!
    Blackboard Monitor
    Darth_Zandalor and Yunners like this.
  15. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Answer: Its very presentational in BOTH the first half and 2nd half of the Saga. We see people (in both halves) practically raising their arms as they deliver lines almost as if they are singing the dialogue along to the music. Star Wars has always been MUCH like a play in many more ways than one.

    They get up there on stages and limited sets dressed up in costumes and raise their arms popping out their chest delivering pulpy lines about "The Power Of The Force" and so on. They do this while ignoring the blue/green screens the same EXACT way normal actors need to block out the audience when on a stage doing a play. In the Special features disc of AOTC none other than Christopher Lee himself talks about this in detail and gos on to defend this aspect of SW going as far as to say anyone who cant dress up and do this must not be a good actor. Not his exzact words but go watch it, thats what the guy basically says. I would have threw on my old dvd so I could have provided the exact quote but then I immediately remembered how futile and absolutely useless it is to provide things like evidence, facts and documented history to fanboys online. Quite frankly you aren't worth the 2 min of my time that it would take. So go learn on your own if you even have the dvd.

    Now you say: Thats not a good enough answer.

    Then I say: Yes it was

    Then you say: I think "the PT" (ya know cuz they gotta label it as something different, its not SW, not the first 3 Episodes oh no its...the other;) gotta love that language) is all bad and awful and wrong because of tired, stereotypical, lazy accusation x and y (which have been refuted and/or completely dis proven over and over again since 1999)

    Then I or someone else takes the time to post all the facts that refute the accusations.

    Then you say: Im just not convinced/its just not good enough or (my favorite) "if you have to think about it than it must just be flawed in the first place."

    Then it turns over and starts again from the beginning. Rinse and repeat. And THATS what the answer to this thread is. People dont "hate" the so called PT they are just constantly told to by loud people who actively fight everyday to keep the cliche of new SW = bad alive. For example when a thread called "why do people hate the PT?" comes up and MOBS worth of people come in and post over and over again about how they DONT hate it and enjoy it just fine yet this has no affect on the more stubborn, more lets say...determined ones with the agenda. In fact if you pay attention to the posting trends you even see the haters holding back and actually waiting for the ones who have no problem with it to die down so that they can THEN come in and uphold their beloved "the'll never be as good as the old ones" hipster view.

    Here we have 61 PAGES worth of people taking the time to express that there is nothing wrong with the first half of the SW Saga 14 YEARS and 3 very successful theatrical re-releases of the first Episode latter and yet its somehow STILL not enough because as long as the loud minority of bashers get to have the last or loudest word this conversation will be kept alive by these bashers.

    It only gos to show the insecurity bashers must harbor to be so deathly afraid to stand up and say the words "the first 3 films are no worse than the last 3 films". Its all Star Wars. And thats what Star Wars is -a cheesy space opera with good morals and much wonderful artistic subtext. But they cant admit this. They need to keep alive the ignorant, dismissive notion that the old ones are "the good ones" and the new ones are "the bad ones that your not supposed to like or else your not in the club". Its a childish and willfully ignorant view trying to uphold a negative, lazy cliche.

    A cliche that only ever hurts more than half of the Star Wars Saga (and fanbase) that took 30 years to finish one artists planed out singular vision.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Feb 6, 2013
  16. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Yep. I appreciate the films for the very opposite reason of being blind. It's because I opened my eyes, studied scenes, appreciated theme, characterization, etc., that I came to view Lucas's PT work as worthwhile. So, yeah, the tribalistic side of fandom may want me to demonize an entire film because a character who suffered (and will suffer) hardships on his desert home world attempts to casually express his pain by reducing all those consequences to merely "hating sand." But thanks, I stick with my own reading of the films.
  17. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Nah, I say we the PT appreciators freeze ourselves cryogenically and wait for the rabid SW haters to go away.
  18. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I may be wrong, but I feel there might be some apologists coming out hiding once GL passes or if VII turns out to be very bad.

    The more I think about how badly people hate George Lucas, the more disturbing I feel the situation is. He is a filmmaker, but the hatred makes it seem like he committed genocide. Its just so weird to me, that you could hate someone who makes movies with such a passion.

    For the record: I have NOT seen it on this forum but elsewhere. So don't quote me to defend yourself because I am NOT attacking anyone here because no one is acting like this here on the forums.
    Last edited by BoromirsFan, Feb 6, 2013
  19. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    Wow, what an attitude. All that the guy asked was how what you linked as description of presentational acting matched the experience of the PT films in any way. What Christopher Lee is talking about is NOTHING to do with presentational acting. What you are describing, and what the PT does not have is presentational acting as it is described in the link you provided. That's not so much a dig at the PT but rather a question aimed at your specific argument.

    Just making up some imagined response when it has no relevance to the question asked in this way is preposterous. The question asked is not even aimed at the PT but your understanding (miscomprehension) of the term presentational acting. Just because your argument is in defence of the PT (against what accusations I'm not entirely sure, as - as you point out - the entire thread seems to be a pretty balanced argument that most people don't hate the PT) doesn't give it any right to be wrong. That it is wrong does not impact upon the movies.

    But where are these 'haters'? I just don't see them. The strident one seems to be....you. And what you seem to be saying is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that those who see any fault in the PT (as distinct from the OT, it is a widely acknowledged and used reference not - as you seem to imagine - a pejorative invention) are either trying to be 'hip' or simply don't get it. This latter position you have tried to prop up with a false attribution of a theatrical style.

    Now, here's an idea. It might be a bit of a challenge to you but try it out. Why not actually take an argument at its own value, rather than just assuming that such propositions as are made are due to some unspoken urge to hipness or just artistic ignorance - or perhaps just a hidden agenda of 'hating'.

    Some people need to get over the idea that there is some sort of club, or some sort of cool to be had in all of this. We are, frankly, all geeks together. I've noticed this not just here, but it seems too many are too quick to jump to conclusions about what others' 'real agenda' are. Stop thinking in terms of 'for' or 'against' (after all only a Sith deals in absolutes) and start to read what people are writing.
  20. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    Well, I certainly don't think people "hate hate hate" the PT here. Or if they do, they don't post in this section of the forums. This place is pretty civil for the most part! :D
  21. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    No, we just tend to avoid the crazies. I don't hate the Prequels, but I don't act like they don't have serious flaws, and I don't try to antagonize entire groups for not conforming to my opinion.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and BoromirsFan like this.
  22. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    "Romantic acting" as Lucas himself describes it. It doesn't have to be strictly presentational or strictly anything for that matter.

    Its not preposterous because its actually what happens all the time and many saga fans know all too well. It was also a little humerus as well. Lighten up.

    Where are the hatters?! Did you read this thread from page one? Go back to page one and read through and you will see the same exact specific posters bashing as 8 YEARS AGO maybe more. They cling to their rhetoric to the point where it becomes about nothing else THAN the rhetoric itself. Another words they seem to only exists in this fanbase to wage war on technically and quite literally MORE than half OF it.

    Now considering that, it basically means that these types of fans are only really even "in it" in order to keep on doing what they do. The enthusiasm is only for the rhetoric and the brand name (Star Wars) associated with it, not for George Lucas's Star Wars Saga.

    I have been a member here for YEARS and YEARS. Even longer than it says under my name and in my profile because I had other profiles before that. I have been through it all for way too long now to say the least. And I am telling you genuinely, from the bottom of my heart: The "anti-PT" cliche is very harmful. It haunts this fanbase, left over from a time long, long passed. It is also VERY confusing and damaging to new SW fans who aren't familiar with the trends and history of this fanbase. Thats all.

    You said yourself most of the people in this thread posted that they dont even have a real problem with Episodes 1,2 and 3 and I agree. It speaks for itself. So why cant we agree to evolve just a little bit more on the subject? Thats all posters like me are saying.

    A good start would be to simply ALLOW people to watch the films in the normal order that George Lucas spent his whole carrer trying to get people to watch his Saga in. Just let the purpose of the art be.

    If you were in a plain white room with nothing but yourself, George Lucas, a big tv and his Star Wars Saga on blu-ray it would go like this:

    GL: Hi Im George Lucas and this is my Star Wars Saga, yup, i really love it cuz it took me 30 years to make, wanna see it?

    Person: Ok lets see it.

    GL: *takes the book out of the box, opens the cover and takes the first disc out of the first page clearly labeled "Star Wars Episode 1" and puts it in*

    He would start with the beginning of the story. His Star Wars Story that is made up of six installments. Because like he historically has always said, thats where it begins...the beginning.

    Thats what the last 30 years were for. To finish Star Wars. To finish it so that people can now watch it straight through. To have the satisfaction of knowing the ORIGINAL STORY by George Lucas has been told. Now disny is going to have 5 "Star Wars movies" a year forever until the money runs out. And when that is over and when George Lucas is dead and gone and when we have grey hairs growing on our over worked, over stressed, underpaid, polluted, ripped off and lied to body's we can have the tiny little satisfaction in knowing that the original story the original saga, the OS was able to be finished before the creator and original artist died and other people took his art and played with it.

    So maybe if we can just agree to stop telling people to watch it in crazy "special" orders and just let them watch it in order. Maybe then A LOT of things will get much better in this fanbase and we will show the REAL enemies --the trek fans) How its done.

    I for one, think that that would be the best,most practical truce that could ever happen between The left and right wings of the Star Wars "fanbase".

    It would show that we, as humans can grow and compromise. If we could make even ONE little compromise like gentlemen this should be it. I believe it would stomp out a lot our demons and be a breath of fresh air if nothing else.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Feb 6, 2013
  23. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    So wait, now you want to direct your anger against Star Trek fans?
  24. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    Is there some law somewhere that says people can't be both?
  25. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.