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Lit Why do people think that the later Stormtroopers were not Clones anymore?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Matthew78, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. Matthew78

    Matthew78 Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 16, 2006
    I never understood this, because AOTC, ROTS and ROTS Visual Dictionary make it clear that new Clone templates have been taken from other donors and that Jango Fett's death only had a minor impact on the production of Clones as a whole, other men could easily provide DNA and become Clone templates, like the Red Guards/Royal Guards or Captain Typho who were skilled and tough Humans in the first place.

    Now granted the Officer ranks of the Imperial Navy were staffed by Human Non-Clones, but The Galactic Empire would be stupid to abolish the Stormtrooper Clone ranks entirely, maybe they eventually combined the Kaminoan Cloning techniques with the Spaarti/Khomite cloning techniques and methods, resulting in Cloning that was comparable to the way that The Dominion in Star Trek Deep Space Nine used Cloning, cloning troopers in days with perfect training that were ready to enter combat within a few days and were available to be mass produced very quickly, not waiting years for the production of new Clones.

    Then you could send them to the Outer Rim and trouble areas in large numbers to hunt for Rebels and criminals, or to other locations for security, but to abandon the Cloning process entirely and give up, thats not happening, Palpatine certantly used it, first with Joruus C'Baoth, Starkiller, then Bevel Lemelisk, then on his own Clones, but those were special cases, most of the Clones that we see in the OT were Clones too, as Human recruits have little reason to enlist and fight for The Empire, when trade and the corporate world or private sectors offer easier money without the risk of death, except in Luke's case as he wanted to join the Imperial Academy and get away from Tatooine, Vader and Palpatine would have loved that, as he would be loyal and trained by the Empire already, not a good future.
  2. SWpants

    SWpants Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Oct 28, 2004
    Because even though the later Clones weren't trained by Mandos, they were much better shots than the later Stormtroopers.
  3. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004
    What gives you the idea they did? About a third of Stormtroopers are still Clones by the time of ANH. Recruits are just a lot easier to get then growing Clones.

    They did. Buy yourself a copy of the Essential Guide to Warfare and you can read up on it in detail. :)

    Spaarti clone tanks also take a year to grow full Clones.

    Spaarti Tanks are somewhat limited in number do to a certain incident during the Clone Wars ;)

    What do you think the Empire was doing? Even then you need an insane number of Troops just to patrol Coruscant alone for that matter, not the mention the rest of the galaxy in between Coruscant and the Armpits of the Outer Rim, which are way more important to the Empire. Most enforcement in the Empire is btw. done by local police forces.

    As mentioned they did not, they just drafted (along with an impressive number of volunteers) numerous people into the Imperial Forces and with it the Stormtroopers, just like the Republic did to actually fight the Clone Wars, because there were not that many Jedi and Clones to go around.

    First a general o_O because you can throw that at any Soldier ever.
    Second there is a thing called a draft

    As if Epos and their kin are less likely to get shoot by disgruntled workers and Rebels. [face_whistling] Also typical Imperial Army Troopers usually got safer and nicer jobs then Mercs.

    Why wouldn't others? There are far worse planets out there than Tatooine and far less idealistic people then Luke.

    Most Clones are not trained by the Insanelorians, they got real trainers, like Planetary Security Force Soldier and Judical Troopers.
    Nom von Anor likes this.
  4. AlyxDinas

    AlyxDinas Jedi Knight star 4

    Jul 12, 2010
    Plenty were. But, to my understanding, the Clone Uprising on Kamino put and end to the production of Fett template clones. Those already in service remained and comprised a sizable portion of the Empire's forces, particularly in the early years.

    As a side note, there's no reason for the Empire to heavily police the Outer Rim to the degree you're suggesting. There's little worth policing. The Core's population completely dwarfs that of the Rim.
  5. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Aug 10, 2005
    One would think it was pretty obvious given that the stormtroopers in the movies do not have voices like the Clone Troopers, not even after Boba Fett's lines were redubbed, and we see plenty of imperial soldiers with exposed faces who are clearly not clones.
  6. Slash78

    Slash78 Jedi Master star 3

    Jul 30, 2004
    Conscripts would be much cheaper then clones and there are no shortage of humans across the galaxy. And as much as some people would hate it, it also leaves the population emotionally invested in the Imperial Military.

    Plus it's a useful political tool. It would be an "us versus them" with the "us" being humans and the "them" being various alien species. This could definitely drive recruitment.

    Even GL went on record once saying that OT Stormtroopers would be 50/50 Fett clones, other clones and "guys the had shanghaied" (which I take he means conscripted).
  7. KamSolusar

    KamSolusar Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Mar 8, 2001
    Don't forget about the GeNode clones who weren't aware of being clones.
  8. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Jul 7, 2010
    Are GeNodes referenced outside of one obscure short story?
  9. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    The semi-recent Essential Guide to Warfare does.
  10. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004

    Also Force Unleashed and its spin offs of all places
  11. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 17, 2011
    I've always assumed that there were still clones, but that the Fett Clones just eventually became the minority, and that conscription also had something to do with the lesser amount of clones in the ranks.
    ILNP likes this.
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012
    I think the Marvel short story with an Alderaanian stormtrooper, may have been one of the first EU stories to show a stormtrooper who is definitely not a clone of any kind. I think that was around the time of Return of the Jedi.

    Oddly- the wookieepedia article calls him a TIE pilot, despite his stormtrooper armour. Maybe he was both?
  13. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004

    He is a Stormtrooper who got to fly a TIE fighter in the same story.
  14. reagan64

    reagan64 Jedi Master star 3

    Feb 26, 2006
    Allegiance does mention that the Stormtrooper Corps was opened up to non-clones about 9 BBY or so. Interestingly, it also says that there was some controversy about doing that with the ISB for one being opposed.
  15. mJedi775

    mJedi775 Jedi Knight star 2

    May 18, 2013

    I thought in the Thrawn Trilogy they discover how to make clones grow less than a year with Spaarti tanks and yslmarari. That's why the New Republic was wondering how Thrawn did it.
  16. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Jul 7, 2010
    Well, that was discovered by Thrawn, and thus was unavailable to the Empire until 9 ABY. And shortly after its discovery, the supply of Spaarti cylinders that the Empire had was destroyed, apart from a few that Thrawn moved off Wayland -- not enough with which to build an army, and even those few that we've seen were subsequently destroyed.
  17. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Sep 2, 2012
    Spaarti cloning is faster than Kaminoan cloning at a year verse ten years, but Thrawn took Spaarti cloning to another level with the use of ysalamiri.
  18. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 7, 2012
    I also recall some really early (pre-ESB) source stating that clones were stormtroopers.

    For whatever reason, when I was a kid before I read any of the EU, I always assumed that stormtroopers were some sort of cyborg soldier and that Han and Luke basically stole their 'shell' to dress in in ANH.

    I remember them being mentioned in the Guide to Warfare.
  19. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004

    Thrawn was able to cut it down to a few weeks with his use of the force bubble trick, Clones bred faster without the trick all went insane or had other defects.
  20. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009
    Somehow I have gotten an idea that the Kaminoans could make clones in less than ten years, but take their time so the clones are better (more time for education and training in the childhood). Has that been said anywhere in canon or is it just my own idea? (It would also help to explain why in TCW:s Kamino arc Lama Su says that the new clones aren't as good as the originals, they have been grown in less time)

    Thrawn of course didn't have any time to lose and made the cannon fodder clones as fast as he could.
  21. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 28, 2011
    I'm not sure I understand your post.

    Your topic question is about people saying post-prequel stormtroopers are not clones, but where do people say not ANY of the post-prequel stormies are clones? It's pretty well established from a variety of sources that there is a healthy mix of clones and non-clones in the Stormtrooper Corps around the time of ANH.

    The body of the post itself, though, is simply advocating for an entirely clone-based Stormtrooper Corps, or at least one that is substantially clone-based, and that exists already... so... I'm confused.

    I disagree with your statement that there is little reason for non-clones to want to be Stormtroopers. It's pretty evident that there are a LOT of people around the GFFA that are very loyal to the Empire and/or believe that it is doing good. It's no different than anyone in any real-life country volunteering for service. Sure, the Empire may, in fact, be brutally murdering species and subjugating trillions, but the average Imperial citizen may either: A) not know this at all and buy into all the propaganda; or B) disregard that information and want to participate anyway. With respect to option B, consider a quote from a great movie, "After watching footage of the Kent State shootings, Bobby Jay, then 17, signed up for the National Guard so that he, too, could shoot college students."
  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012