Why do some STAR WARS fans still have a problem with the premise of Midi-Chlorians ??? (AN OPINION.)

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by currentswillshift, Jul 24, 2002.

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  1. endboss Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 1998
    star 3
    <<<I think we are saying he's inconsistent.>>>

    Personally, I don't see Midis as inconsistent, against Campbell, or an OT contradiction. I see 'em simply as a lousy addition to this saga that cheapens the accomplishment of mastering the Force. Just as something as ridiculous as Vader being a watered-down Anakin clone wouldn't contradict the OT, Campbell, or anything else. It'd simply cheapen the Vader character a great deal. That's all. That's enough.
  2. uralllosers Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 1
    "If the OT came later chronologically in the storyline, then shouldn't the things in the PT be explained in the OT, rather than the other way around? "

    This is just too easy to take apart. I think a plain "no" suffices.
  3. Darth-sennin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 3
    Midi-chlorians aren't a contradiction, they are one of the many flaws of the jedi. Bashers believe that jedi shouldn't be overly scientific, and should keep things mythicly rooted. George Lucas agrees, he's setting the jedi up for their fall. That's why Yoda is so humble and so down to earth in the OT. All that science and protocol did nothing but blind the jedi from seeing their true enemy. When Yoda says you must unlearn what you have learned, he is speaking from experience. It means one thing to Luke (the force can break physical laws if you work hard enough at it), and at the same time for Yoda it means many of the things that seemed important to the jedi are now irrelevent (i.e. midi-chlorians).

  4. BIG_BEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    Urall: If it's too easy to take apart, why didn't you?

    I think you need to take a logic or debate class, since you don't appear to understand simple linear reasoning.
  5. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I personally think that saying tha Lucas is being inconsistent is a lousy argument. I think thats total rubbish.
    I can't see how he is being inconsistent and is rather just adding, completing the bigger picture of the Force and how Jedi are more special than the general GFFA populace.

    And also the key thing which has some of fanbase such a yourself Big Ben is that you have these notions of things from the OT which are probably the reason why something like Midichlorians can't fit for your liking.
    I can't blame you for having those notions, the 16 year gap didn't help in the slightest.
    And also I guess it does take a little getting used to when a new concept comes about.

    TPM made me a fan of Star Wars ("amazing" some of you might say) and Midichlorians is a concept I can easily accept. Its not a shoddy addition or inconsistent to the story.
    The Force is still a mystical thing, at least to me anyway. The Midichlorians just add the gap between why one person can use the Force and another cannot.

  6. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    The whole midichlorian thing is unnecessary technobabble... right up there with Star Trek solving every other problem by "recalibrating the alignment of the vector of the dilithium proton reactor core shield interface".

    But then again, some people like this kinda thing. I dunno... whatever blows your hair back, I reckon.
  7. uralllosers Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 1
    sorry ben I was just trying to bait you :) -- I knew you would use the word "logic"

    OK

    "If the OT came later chronologically in the storyline, then shouldn't the things in the PT be explained in the OT, rather than the other way around? "

    By this "logic", then everything that happens in the PT should be explained in the OT.

    Since Qui-Gonn wasnt mentioned in the OT, he is out.

    They never explained how Anikin turned into Vader in the OT. Hmm...guess we'll never know.

    Basically your idea of a prequel means taking things which have already been explained in the OT, and acting them out. In reality, the point of a prequel (any prequel) is to shed new light on things that happened in the original movie.

    <<See, the problem is that Lucas painted himself into a creative corner by making the last three stories first.>>

    By your "logic", is there any way a prequel could work? Are you saying that there should be no new material in the prequel? No new characters? No surprises?

    Sounds exciting.
  8. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Is it unnecessary?
    So you would have preferred no explanation as to why only certain people can be a Jedi?
    Meaning that anyone could be a Jedi.
  9. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If anything the Midichlorian concept opens the doors to all living things. In the classic trilogy, you seemed to have to be born with it.

    Now we see that every living thing has midichlorians, it is just that some people have more.

    Just like the way some scientists figured out that people of African descent are geneticly predispositioned to jump higher. That doesn't mean white people -can't- jump. It just means they would have to work at it a little harder (generally speaking).
  10. endboss Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 1998
    star 3
    <<<Is it unnecessary? So you would have preferred no explanation as to why only certain people can be a Jedi?
    Meaning that anyone could be a Jedi.>>>

    I'd have preferred to believe that only those with the right teacher, mentality and dedication could make use of Jedi teachings and become enlightened. That's what I happily believed until 1999. So did you and most of the people here.
  11. BIG_BEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    DarthTerrious: I actually like your argument. It makes a lot of sense, and I agree with you. A lot of what I'm attempting to do here is play devil's advocate, because I see good arguments on both sides. Truth be told, I don't like midis, but I can't really say that they are completely out of place. I just tend to be a traditionalist when it comes to Star Wars.
    I will admit that a lot of my reasons for disliking midichlorians are fairly superficial, but I will try to explain once again my real reason.
    Let's say that the force is like the bumblebee (unusual start, I realize). For years, scientists, using the scientific method, couldn't explain how bumblebees could fly. According to everything they knew at the time, it should have been theoretically impossible for them to do so; their bodies were too big for their wings. However, everyone could plainly see that bumblebees COULD fly, from simple observation, and that was enough for most. Later on, science caught up with what we already knew, and they were finally able to explain the HOW of bumblebee flight. Did that add to or detract from our knowledge that bumblebees could fly? No, because we could already see that they could. Did science catching up with our empirical observation de-mystify the HOW of bumblebee flight? Yes, because now we had an explanation of the how. If you apply the same principle to the force in Star Wars, it's a similar effect. We already knew that the force worked, both for us and the movie, we didn't really need to know how. That brings me back to my original contention, which was that midichlorians were unnecessary, other than to explain one plot point that could have been handled in another way. It's not necessarily wrong to do it the way it was, and I'll admit, not necessarily even logically inconsistent. Just unnecessary, and many feel, inconsistent with the feel, spirit, flow, whatever you want to call it--of the OT. That's all.

    I would have preferred no different explanation than we already had about why only certain people could become jedi. I felt the same way about it that endboss just mentioned. For me, it wasn't a matter of who could or could not become jedi, it was a matter of who wanted to, and who had the skill, determination, raw talent and faith that it took to be a good one.
  12. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    One thing Endboss, I wasn't a fan of SW before 1999, I didnt even giving a damn about the Force or whatever. In fact Star Wars was a load of rubbish as far as i was concerned.

    the oh so awful TPM which I've heard moaned about, made me a fan and therefore Midichlorians weren't a problem for me as they were you.


    And Big Ben, I respect that. I'm lucky I wasn't effected by the notions and traditions most of you have had, which has meant I have a fresh view on it.
  13. uralllosers Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 1
    I would accept that, if episode iii does not have further justification for introducing the concept of midichlorians, then it would seem to be an odd (even "unnecessary") choice for Lucas to have included it.

    But I would be very surprised if it doesn't play a big role in a manner discussed in this forum or in a way not predicted.




  14. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Theres no need for extra justification. TPM did alot of exposition and Midichlorians were part of that. Thats it over, you now know why the Midis are there, the other 2 movies ge on with the story.
  15. uralllosers Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2002
    star 1
    right, end of story.

    unless its not.
  16. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "If anything the Midichlorian concept opens the doors to all living things. In the classic trilogy, you seemed to have to be born with it."


    Actually, it seems like there's MORE evidence that you have to be born with it now. Before it was more a matter of having a predisposition towards it and focusing yourself so that you could harness it. Now, it all depends on the genetic concentration of micro-organisms in your cells. In other words... you have to be born with it, and if you're not, you aren't going to be able to develop it.
  17. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    actually most people have completely forgotten about the whole midi thing ,so its all good.

    most of us were satisfied with "the force is strong in this one" explanation.

    its similar to a wizard sensing another powerful wizard nearby. actually its basically the same thing only more chi new-agey.


    Midichlorians are an answer to a question NOONE ASKED!!
  18. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Dahveed, It might not have been asked but what does that matter?


    Lucas wanted to fully explain it, he has done and thats that.

    He can't help it if you didn't ask that question.
    As it is for some of you its an unwelcome surprise.

    And I think its BS that the Mid thing is nearly forgotten, if it is then why is there so many people moaning about it? Hmmm bit of a contradictory statement.
  19. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    among your average moviegoer, believe me it is. other than making fun of those scheming supergeeks on buffy (i think we know where Whedon stands on this), theyre totally forgotten.

    they probably wont be mentioned again so whats the difference?
  20. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Right the general moviegoer. They don't matter. They forget everything anyway, unless you are a fan of something then I guarantee you'd forget things from any movie you've seen.


    Anyway I thought this discussion on the Fans not the general populace.

  21. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    "And I think its BS that the Mid thing is nearly forgotten, if it is then why is there so many people moaning about it? Hmmm bit of a contradictory statement."

    Well, for starters we have people starting topics asking why fans still don't like the concept.

    Then, when some of us take the time to actually answer the question thoughtfully we are berated as "moaners" and bad fans.
  22. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Well I don't necessarily think you are bad fans but I do think from POV you are moaners to an extent. Thats just how I see it. But I can understand your opinions, as wrong as I think they are I understand where you are coming from.
  23. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    well i think you can be a SW fan and NEVER visit a fansite or message board. Most of the men i know have seen all the movies, played with the toys as kids, and have had more than one discussion about said movies. in my book ne one who has seen the OT and the new movies is at least a casual fan.

    i mean i loved Godfather 1 & 2, but i didnt bother to see 3 in the theaters. Thats the extent of my involvement with THOSE movies and i consider myself both a Godfather fan and a Coppola fan.



    exactly AgentCoop!!

    Weve moved on, Lucas has moved on, so why dont you? its over, like a passing odor.
  24. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    "Well I don't necessarily think you are bad fans but I do think from POV you are moaners to an extent."

    Again, how is it "moaning" to legitimately answer a question that someone has posted?
  25. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    AgentCoop, sorry I expressed myself badly there, if you answer the question with your opinion thats fine but I guess I can misunderstand some of you guys tone when you make your opinion. And do consider it moaing if there are a few commenst where you its a case of "it should be this and not that, why did he do this when it was not wanted" etc etc
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