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Why do some STAR WARS fans still have a problem with the premise of Midi-Chlorians ??? (AN OPINION.)

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by currentswillshift, Jul 24, 2002.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    There is no evidence you would be able to detect thought put into the film in the first place, DrEvazan. I mean you say you can, and others agree with you, but there is no proof.
     
  2. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    That's exactly my point. Those who haven't had 22 years to speculate about the exact nature of the force really don't have a problem with midichlorians.

    You misheard me. I didn't say that we had 22 years to speculate on the Force. I said that we had 22 years of Lucas describing the Force.

    My point is that we had Lucas telling us about the Force for 22 years, and many of us feel that the midis don't jive with what *he* has been telling us, and explicitly *not* what we made the Force out to be.

    There is a difference. If my views of the Force had simply been my own speculation, uninformed by GL (or tangential from what GL has said), then you would have a point. Unfortunately, this is *not* the case - my views are informed by and composed of everything GL has told us about the Force from May 1977 to April 1999 (I was spoiler-free for the film). As such, my opinion on the midis is *not* speculation of what might be, but rather a composite of everything I learned from GL on the topic. And I don't feel that they jive with the past 22 years of articles, interviews, etc.

    See the difference?
     
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    No. You are saying that because your inaccurate assumptions were based on what Lucas had said, he shouldn't have contradicted that? Midichloirans contradict NOTHING that Lucas has put forward about the Force in the past. When you assume, you take the risk of being WRONG.
     
  4. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Exactly you made assumptions whic turned out to be wrong, you just can't handle that you got it wrong.....or thats how i see it.
     
  5. DrEvazan

    DrEvazan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2002
    DarthTerrious: "Dr.E: Really your ignorance is astounding"

    your inability to see your own flaming says alot for the same insight you have when talking about the films.

    "And what Major surprises has he spoilt?"

    hmm oh maybe that darth vader is really anakin skywalker, father of luke skywalker.

    if you ask me that's a pretty big one... perhaps the single most important revelation of the entire saga.

    with a little thought he could have avoided revealing that, but the real issue is that he has written himself into a nasty corner again, because IMO he has not put enough thought into the writing. he is hardly telling us anything new, which he also easily could have done rather than writing an insignificant backstory.

    we already know anakin was turned to evil, we already know the emperor is evil,
    we know there were clone wars and they led to the rise of the empire and the rebellion,

    now we get to see it happen.. why? why do we need to see any of this? then have characters talk about things we have already seen in the PT when we watch the OT. details that are completely covered later in the saga.

    and this is why i say lucas lacks any other creative ideas. he made star wars and then ran out of anything else to do. he talks about films hes wanted to do for two decades yet where are they? hes certainly had plenty of time to make them, even while running his various companies and buisinesses.

    i love the films of the OT. the PT is just a rehash, and a poorly thought out one at that.

    i for one am far more interested in the story of the jedi and the sith and how they came to be. what confuses me is why some people settle for the PT and its tale of details everyone already knows about.

    to each his own i suppose.

    yes GL is the creator. that doesnt automatically mean he is doing a good job.
     
  6. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Oh well blame the OT not the PT for the Anakin is Vader revelation.

    But the backstory isn't insignificant. We don't know how Anakin became evil, thats why the backstory is being done.
    Sorry but you really have no thought processes before you write.

    I guess you don't want to know what happened, you don't care why Anakin became Vader. Well then please leave because plenty of us do.

    The PT & the OT rhyme because both Anakin & Luke go down the same path, its hardly a rehash because different things are happening, different situations and at the end of each trilogy a different ending.


    And that was not flaming you, You truely seem ignorant to me. Or stupid......but I can't tell that really.
     
  7. SWfan2002

    SWfan2002 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2002
    I believe that Darth Terrious is right.
     
  8. Jedi_Learner

    Jedi_Learner Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2002
    I believe that DrEvazan shouldn't watch Episode 3 when it comes out. [face_plain]

    If you think "the PT is just a rehash", don't watch Episode 3. It's that simple.



     
  9. SWfan2002

    SWfan2002 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2002
    I believe that Jedi_Learner is also right.
     
  10. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    Go-Mer, DarthTerrious-

    You both fail to understand that I'm not adding *anything* to what GL had said. I fully trusted him up to April 1999; I didn't make guesses about what the Force was, how it worked, etc., because there was a wealth of information *from GL* about the topic. Bottom line: I wasn't making assumptions.

    Go-Mer, I'm discounting your opinion off the bat because you are way too much of a Lucas apologist for me to take you seriously. Anyone who argues that it is vitally important for the SW saga for Lucas to include a pile of Bantha dung in the film is unqualified to make any guesses about my motivations.

    Terrious, I don't know you well enough to discount your opinion, so you and I will simply have to agree to disagree on the matter. You want to fiat beliefs and motivations on me, that's fine. It doesn't make you right however, anymore than my fiating beliefs and motivations on to you makes me right.

    Force cooties in SW didn't exist for 22 years, and for those of us who had blind faith in GL's vision to that point, the midis were a great challenge. Some feel they fit, others don't. It isn't a question of bad assumptions, misinformed opinions, or self-delusion - it's entirely possible for rational people to get different conclusions from the same premises. There is no character flaw that causes one to stray from the "true path" of fandom.

    That seems to be lost on a great many people on these boards.
     
  11. SWfan2002

    SWfan2002 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2002
    It doesn't matter, Quixotic-Sith, if you "get" the midi-chlorians or not, or if they are part of the force which you "envisioned" over the years from interrpreting GL interviews. They are part of SW now and the man who created SW says so-- and he's said so in interviews. If you can't or don't want to except that, then that's too bad for you. I can and that's all I care about.
     
  12. bleh19

    bleh19 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2001
    "I'm not adding *anything* to what GL had said"

    But that doesnt mean Lucas can't add *anything*...

    Regardless of your opinion of them, that doesnt make GL wrong for explaining an aspect of the Force he envisioned even if he only came up w/ it in the past 5 years or so.
     
  13. Durwood

    Durwood Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    nowhere did i say anything about lucas being a greedy filthy liar in my post. but if that helps you dismiss and argument without really adressing it, too bad for you.

    No, you didn't call Lucas a "filthy greedy liar" specifically, but you did insinuate that he only claimed to have put thought into the story when he really didn't--in essence, you called the man a liar.

    And if I dismissed your "argument" it's only because trying to throw out mountains of supporting evidence with flippant remarks isn't much of an argument to begin with.

    Oh, and before I forget, the Star Wars: Behind The Magic and Episode I: Behind The Magic CD-ROMs are two more excellent sources of information proving that Lucas has put a lot of thought into the saga.
     
  14. Bane_Maler

    Bane_Maler Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Why do all arguments star wars always end up being about how GL is a greedy man?
     
  15. Bane_Maler

    Bane_Maler Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2002
    When I first saw TPM that fateful day only one thing bothered me. Coincidentally enough, it wasn't Jar Jar, or Jake Lloyd, but right when I heard the parasite connection to the force I cringed. I couldn't believe that GL would do that to such a wonderful concept. He broke it down into a scientific explaination to how things work. Look at the world around you. The mysterious are things that can't be explained by conventional science. That's what brings in the concept of faith and belief, and quite frankly that element will be forever tarnished in the series if not denounced or further addressed. For now the power of a Jedi and his potential is limited by this concept. I can do without. It sounds too much like Pokemon or DBZ (these things too make me cringe). I think Lucas had a great mythology going with the force in the past, and he just lost site of it in the writing of TPM. This is my only complaint relating the films.
     
  16. Durwood

    Durwood Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    Only the Jedi's connection to the force was scientifically explained, sort of, but not the force itself. The force is still the same mysterious energy field that it has always been.

    And this is where this debate gets frustrating. People accuse Lucas of screwing up but then they turn around and show that they don't fully understand things to begin with.

    And just for fun, another example from the hollowed original trilogy:

    Leia tells Luke, "You have something that I could never have." In other words, it was recognized that only certain people could become Jedi, and if you didn't have that "special something" then you weren't going to become a Jedi. Period.

    I mean, why didn't she say, "I could never be as devoted as you," or "I could never work hard enough to be as strong in the force as you."? Leia made an absolute statement that ruled out anybody from becoming a Jedi unless they had that "special something", that connection to the force that not everybody had.

    The only thing midichlorains explain is what that "special something" is.
     
  17. endboss

    endboss Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 1998
    <<<Leia tells Luke, "You have something that I could never have." In other words, it was recognized that only certain people could become Jedi, and if you didn't have that "special something" then you weren't going to become a Jedi. Period. I mean, why didn't she say, "I could never be as devoted as you," or "I could never work hard enough to be as strong in the force as you."? Leia made an absolute statement that ruled out anybody from becoming a Jedi unless they had that "special something", that connection to the force that not everybody had.>>>

    Oh please! Her comment was like an admirer telling Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan "Man, you have skills I could never have." Such a comment would be completely understandable.

    <<<Saying, "I love 'Star Wars' but hate the prequel films," makes about as
    much sense as saying, "I love brownies with nuts but hate the nuts.">>>

    It's more like saying "I love Godfather 1 and 2 but was very disappointed in Godfather 3." You have no business telling Dr. E he makes sloppy points.
     
  18. SWfan2002

    SWfan2002 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Hey Endboss, here's a novel idea-- if you don't like the prequels, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WATCH THEM! But for goodness sake man, get over it. There's got to be something out there you do like, how about spending your time thinking about that?
     
  19. endboss

    endboss Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 1998
    STFU with that canned nonsense.
     
  20. SWfan2002

    SWfan2002 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2002
    I wouldn't have to if you would first.
     
  21. endboss

    endboss Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 1998
    <<<I wouldn't have to if you would first.>>>

    What I offered wasn't canned. Dur made a specific point in favor of the Midis being needed. I made a specific counterpoint. You then responded with the old standby "If you don't like the Prequels, leave!" garbage. Stay on topic.
     
  22. SWfan2002

    SWfan2002 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2002
    You're a known basher and your comments were basher comments. I WILL speak my mind and there's nothing you can do about it from your computer terminal.
     
  23. endboss

    endboss Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 1998
    <<<I WILL speak my mind and there's nothing you can do about it from your computer terminal.>>>

    I never threatened to physically hurt you. Relax. And I'll be speaking my mind too and will continue to spend a little time here a few times a week, even though the Prequels haven't been as good as I'd like. But you should already know that.
     
  24. SWfan2002

    SWfan2002 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2002
    I do and I won't forget it "buddy".
     
  25. DrEvazan

    DrEvazan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2002
    hahahaha "known basher"... wow i think you just made it to the FBI's MOST WANTED list.
     
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