Why do some STAR WARS fans still have a problem with the premise of Midi-Chlorians ??? (AN OPINION.)

I fail to see why Midichlorians were necessary to convey that Anakin was especially powerful and most likely the chosen one.

Hmm, let's see, his count was high, higher than Yoda's, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan IMMEDIATELY felt Anakin's presence when they landed on Tatooine, I mean...he is clearly a special boy. The Chosen One thing was just a hunch- notice the Council doesn't say "well his midichlorian count is higher than Yoda's so he is definetly the Chosen One..."

But anything to complain about, right guys? Yeah.


of course they were unnecessary endboss. but since Lucas squeezed it out of his ass, your average Gusher has no problem "going with it".

I'm glad you never squeeze anything out of your ass either, else you may stoop to the same level as Lucas.

 

What's funny is that while midichlorians are brought up in TPM, the Force itself is not revisited and explained as it probably should have been. Anakin doesn't ask Qui-Gon to explain the Force but is confused about midichlorians. That does seem like a point of weak writing. Of course, after TPM and AOTC, there's definitely a much stronger emphasis on biology than the OT.

 

Dahveed you are right this thread doesn't belong here.

But I am still confused as to why you and endboss moan, whine or whatever you call it about something which is what Lucas always had in his mind.

I still don't know why we are having this discussion, it seems the ignorant will forever dislike this idea and say that gushers just go along with it because GL put it there. The latter I object to.

Many in this thread have probably explained the Midichlorians well enough, yet you ignorantly dismiss it. Believe what you want I guess. This whole basher/gusher argument which it seems it is will never be sorted out.

You can call me a gusher or whatever but I actually get what the midichlorians are and move on. You wouldn't have heard of them in AOTC or EP3 because they were a plot point/plot device for TPM, and only that movie.

My earlier post was stupid I can accept that, but the whole Midichlorians have been over analysed for too long. And maybe the bashers in this thread should actually watch TPM again and actually pay attention.

 

You obviously stopped reading after my first sentence, Pooja. "I fail to see why Midis were necessary to convey that Anakin was especially powerful", and then I listed the "here's why." If you want to know why the things you offered do nothing to convince me, read the "here's why."

 

And maybe the bashers in this thread should actually watch TPM again and actually pay attention.

 

something which is what Lucas always had in his mind

Lucas always had the midichlorians in mind?
There's not even a hint of them from the OT.

GL himself described them as a plot device to explain why some people can tap into the Force and others can't. Unfortunately, they seem a bit forced (forgive the pun) and tacked on and not really necessary, quite frankly, but I'm willing to reserve any firm judgments until I see Episode III.

 

Sorry endboss, it just gets old man. I mean... I try to respect everyone's opinions, but when you constantly show your agression towards the prequels...I mean you make it really hard, man.

 

<<<watch TPM again and actually pay attention>>>

Would you believe me if I told you I did pay attention and understand that the Midis aren't the Force itself? Would you believe me if I told you I _still_ find them incredibly lame and wonder how anyone with an ounce of taste could pat Lucas on the back for such an idea, just as I'd wonder how anyone could support a film based on the Bible (fiction) that explains Jesus' miracles as coming from little holy bugs in his blood, rather than the power of god?

 

<<<Sorry endboss, it just gets old man. I mean... I try to respect everyone's opinions, but when you constantly show your agression towards the prequels...I mean you make it really hard, man.>>>

No sweat. But then don't engage me in the first place if you aren't willing to deal with the meat of what I have to say.

 

endboss,

SW has a number of religious and mythological references just as it has numerous film and genre references.

It was never intended as an allegory for any one religion and its fantasy nature should not be forgotten in this debate.

 

Stay on Target guys.

 

>>>It was never intended as an allegory for any one religion and its fantasy nature should not be forgotten in this debate.>>>

It was an example. I'm not comparing Star Wars to Christianity. If it helps, replace Jesus' miracles with Gandalf's. To explain his power in a way that turns him into a Spiderman-like mutant would be a horrible idea. What the Force has been turned into is a horrible idea.

 

Would you believe me if I told you I _still_ find them incredibly lame and wonder how anyone with an ounce of taste could pat Lucas on the back for such an idea, just as I'd wonder how anyone could support a film based on the Bible (fiction) that explains Jesus' miracles as coming from little holy bugs in his blood, rather than the power of god?


You're mistaken. Like you said, the midichlorians have nothing to do with the Force directly. It's just that every Jedi or person strong with the Force has these midichlorians in thier blood.

When Qui-Gon discovered that Anakin's count was higher than that of any other Jedi, he got the idea that he may be the Chosen One- or just someone more gifted than even Yoda.

Qui-Gon wasn't like "oh man this kid is the Chosen One because he has a high count!" He merely wanted him to be trained- just in case. A high count DOES designate your Force powers- however it is not the Force itself, nor an explanation of.

It's sort of like I.Q. You take I.Q. tests to see how high your intelligence level is- but does that mean you are the smartest person in the world if your I.Q. is higher than everyone else's? Not exactly. I know a kid from high school that was just...well...his I.Q. was extremely high.

But I was smarter than him. He was a freshman, and I was a senior. But just because his I.Q. was higher than mine, doesn't mean he was smarter.

HOWEVER-

You know those quick relay teams in most schools? Like, they have competitions to see which school has the better, quickest responses? Well, those teams consist of people with above normal grades and high I.Q.

Say a high school was losing, and they needed a smart person on their team to bail them out- get them caught up.

It would be thier "chosen one."

That is why Qui-Gon assumed that maybe he was the chosen one. His midi count was high, so that made him a prime candidate.

Anakin's midichlorian count doesn't say he is the Chosen One. But since it is high, he very well could be. That doesn't mean he is though.

So, all these Biblical references to help with the bashing doesn't constitute anything. This isn't related to God or Jesus in any way.

It's Star Wars.

 

What you're telling me I already understand, Pooja. I know _what_ the Midichlorians are. After your unnecessary description, the Midis are still...Star Trek...X-Men.

 

Okay, so then what's the big hatred towards them? If you seem to understand everything... you wouldn't hate the idea.

 

Understanding the meaning behind the rotten idea that takes away a lot of the appeal of the Force doesn't change the fact that it's a rotten idea.

 

I have to agree with Endboss here... and I find it interesting that on so many threads, disagreements are explained as being a result of someone "not understanding". That seems just a tad condescending to me. The Midi concept is NOT that complex, thanks... ... we DO understand it. We just don't CARE for it...

*S*

Shadow

 

That's what I don't understand- if you understand it then you'd know it does NOT in any way take away from the "appeal."

 

>>>That's what I don't understand- if you understand it then you'd know it does NOT in any way take away from the "appeal.">>>

The polite thing for me to say is "We'll have to agree to disagree." But another way of saying that is "It looks like my friend Dahveed was right about you."

 

The problem with Pooja is that in his/her bizarre mind lies a very clear definition of black and white when it comes to Star Wars films. According to that, even if you don't like only one small detail in the films, then you are not, in her and other such members' words, a true fan!

I don't find it condescending at all; I find it childish and equally laughable.

 

I don't think any of the scientific questions that midichlorians raise have any holes in them, so long as you correctly understand the real-world biology you compare them to.

>>>>1) The presence of midichlorians within living cells is a clear idea, but what about life forms that are not cellular or not carbon based ? Does this mean that they cannot be Force sensitive, I mean how can a little piece of cellular matter be common to all life ?

It's my understanding that all life forms on Earth are cellular. From jellyfish to giraffes. I don't think any non-carbon based life forms have been discovered either.

2) All the species on earth do not have a common fragement of DNA between them yet seemingly all Jedi do to accomodate midichlorians ?

Maybe not (I don't know) but I think all species on Earth have mitochondria (the real-world equivalent to midichlorians.)

DNA in all species on Earth have the same 4 bases and use the same genetic code (ie. are made up of the same 4 amino acid building blocks.)

3) Could Force senstivite people attract midichlorians rather than them being responsible for the Force, e.g an indicator of Force senstivity as apposed to a cause ?

Could be... I think the two lines "The Force is an energy field generated by all living things" and "midichlorians are life forms, living inside your cells" indicate that they mean the Force is stronger (in the energy field sense) with those who have a high midichlorian count.

4) When the Emperor cloned himself onto the blank clone bodies (EU but it need asked) how did he replicate / reproduce the midichlorians ?

E.U.rgh...


5) If the midichlorians can be replicated / reproduced this way then why not manufacture them ? Armies of Jedi or Sith could be produced or Force sensitivity boosted ?

I imagine that putting them into every single cell in someones body would be VERY difficult.

6) Only Qui-Gon Jinn talks about midichlorians in TPM, although Obi-Wan confirms that he knows about them and that Yoda has them. What makes this 100% true ? Perhaps this is only what those two particular Jedi believe the same way as some people believe in Tarot or Astrology or God (contreversial ).

Anakin also says "I heard master Yoda talk about midichlorians."

I think the Jedi use midichlorans as criteria for who they train. I don't know if that's the only criteria they use though...



>>>It's apparent clones can be made of Jedi. Taun We said as much to Obi-wan. That they wanted to clone a Jedi, but "Sifo-Dyas" said no. Midichlorians exist in all life forms. Including Jango, Boba and the clones.

Well, it's worth noting that Dolly (the cloned sheep) had the mitochondria of the host cell- not the cloned cell. So I don't think Jedi clones would have Jedi midichlorian counts.

And that scene was cut, wasn't it?




>>>But then how do you explain Vader's ability to sense Obi Wan when the Falcon lands in the Death Star hangar? Certainly he wasn't using the Force at the time.

He sensed his familiar presence- not that he was strong with the Force.

(I think it's more like recognising a face than detecting any particular physical/character traits.)


>>>Luke and Leia are twins and their cells are divided up between each other. Thus preventing them from being stronger than Vader."

I don't think that's true, because midichlorians must be able to grow and reproduce.

>>>Lucas always had the midichlorians in mind?
There's not even a hint of them from the OT.

There's not a hint of padawan apprentices in the OT either, but they were in the early drafts...

Lucas says something on the DVD commentary about how a "real" basis for the Force was always part of his plan. Believe it if you wish...


>>>Would you believe me if I told you I _still_ find them incredibly lame and wonder how anyone with an ounce of taste could pat Lucas on the back for such an idea, just as I'd wonder how anyone could support a film based on the Bible (fiction) that e

 

When I say that about the Midis being split up, it means that neither Skywalker child has the count level that Anakin does. Unlike the logical, real world explaination, the power they would share would most likely have to be divided up to prevent said problems. Like I said, I have no proof of this, but Lucas has to explain why Luke and Leia couldn't kill Palpatine but Anakin could.

 

<<<Aren't Gandalfs powers because he was born with demon blood?>>>

No, he's simply a 'god.' Same as Saruman and Sauron. Their ability to tap into and wield great power doesn't come from the fact that they're genetic freaks. I'm glad it doesn't, but I'm learning that that isn't a universal opinion. *cough*but it ought to be*cough*

 

No, he's simply a 'god.' Same as Saruman and Sauron.

Endboss, you messed that one up a bit mate! Gandalf and Saruman are Istari, they are wizards who came from the West to the Middle Earth. Sauron is a fallen God though, I believe, sort of a Lucifer figure.

My good friend Silmarillion will be able to help you with those.

 

See, I don't understand why Jedi are suddenly "genetic freaks." Midichlorians are basically midtochondria, everyone has mitochondria, and not everyone has the same amount of them.

"What if they don't agree?"
"Then they should be made to."