Why do they hate us?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by The1, Jun 9, 2002.

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  1. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Well Emilie, what you just said is not true. You will create a lot more enemies and that's a fact...
  2. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
  3. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    what makes you say I'm a hooligan ? To you comprend the implications of calling someone that ?
  4. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    MalkieD2,

    No harm meant. Hooligan is a term used to describe crazy soccer fans. It's not a bad thing at all. Unless of course, you are one of the chaps who smashes other teams fans with beer bottles and the like. :)
  5. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    First off as an american, I agree with most of what the non americans have been saying here.

    I just would like to address the point about our world series. No other country has the level of competition in its professional baseball system to compete with the MLB. These teams would have no chance.(Why dont you have MLS teams in the UEFA Championship Cup? Because American soccer sucks.)


    Besides that the term was coined 100 years ago by promoters using the term to envoke awe and wonder.


  6. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Yes, and we allow Canadian teams as well! [face_mischief]
  7. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    oh I see :) thats ok - its just where I am from hooligan only means people who participate in violence ! I'm certainly not one of those people !

    I loved the next post - another great american comment

    No other country has the level of competition in its professional baseball system to compete with the MLB. These teams would have no chance.

    lets see - who are you to say that baseball competition outside of the US is not up to anything ? Thats just arrogant - how would you know unless they actually played?. Football in Luxembourg is not up to the standard of play in Brazil, but everyone gets a chance, hence the World Cup.

    Personally, I think some of the asian baseball teams might upset american teams. I watched the Little Leagues over the summer, and the non-US teams were just as good as the US-teams. I'm not an expert, but my american friend told me that an asian team usually wins the Little Leagues (although an american team won it this year).

    Calling your annual baseball competition the "World Series" is typical of americans not seeing outside of the USA.

    Next point.

    Why dont you have MLS teams in the UEFA Championship Cup?

    do you realise how silly that sounds. UEFA stands for Union of European Football Associations ie teams that are in Europe. South America has a similar competition, so does Africa, and I'm sure North America. The winners of each competition then play each other in the World Cup of Club Football, where the best teams play. There is no reason why an american team could not play in this eventual competition.

    The Bottom line though, and still my point which cannot be argued - we don't call it the World Champions League, we call it the European Champions League.

    I can see things outside of my country.

    M

    after seeing the US in the World Cup this summer, I would expect US teams to hold their own against European competition, however, they'd have to be in Europe to qualify (which they might have difficulty finding if you read my posts from a few pages back)
  8. Emilie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2002
    star 3
    Darth_omega, it was tongue-in-cheek words
    (and they were censured, I apologize if i shocked anyone).

    I'll explain it quickly : "the guignols" are parodic dolls in a french tv show. Very funny but how true! They comment politics in their own way, and the idea was :
    You have to Stalone caricatural latex dolls asking themselves why so many people hate their country... And one adds : "but when we'll be through killing all these **** muslims around the world and everybody that disagress with us,whatever the rest of the world thinks, and do everything our way not caring about the other's objections, there will be a lot less people to hate us"

    (because they'll all be dead).

    It's a tongue-in-cheek show, but how true!!!! Here is what we've been struggling about for 50 pages... "why do they hate us".
    Here it is, in one sentence!

    About world cup and all, I apologize everybody, but I didn't understand everything. What's your point, all? :confused:

    EDIT : I read it over again and got it :)(thanks to the post just before this one).
    Well, here comes one for you all : I am french and partied like hell in 1998's World Cup. And this time, in 2002, I just have to admit the French's pride was their loss (was our loss). Too bad for France, we sucked. We got what we earned!
  9. ImperialFC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    FYI:

    MLS teams compete in CONCACAF and do not participate in UEFA tournaments. They do however compete in the CONCACAF Club Championship and in the brief seven year exsistence of the league two MLS teams have won the tournament (DC United and the LA Galaxy). DC United also won the InterAmerican Cup when they played a two-leg match against Vasco de Gama (club champions of CONMEBOL), so at one point a MLS team was club champion of North, Central, South America and the Caribbean.

    The US National Men's team has also won two Gold Cups (the national team championship of CONCACAF). BTW, the US is now ranked 8th in the world by FIFA (although I know those rankings are not exactly looked up favorably :)).

    I do agree that calling sports teams world champions when they do not play outside their own country is pretty silly. That's probably the only thing I agree with though :)

    EDIT: The LA Galaxy were scheduled to play in the World Club Cup, however it was canceled and they did not get their chance.
  10. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    It really is not an arrogant American statement. The level of professional baseball in the US far exceeds that of any other league. MLB collects the best talent the world has to offer. This is not arrogance it is the truth. You must not know too much about baseball.
  11. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    ImperialFC you have an excellent knowledge of football :)

    I knew that US teams had to compete in some form of continental competition, but I didn't know anything about it.

    I didn't realise that the World Club Cup has been cancelled :( is that permanent ? I remember watching Man Utd play in it a few years back after the won the European Cup. It was more of an exhibition competition than a proper Cup competition. There was a big to-do in the UK because Man Utd refused to play in the FA Cup due to participation in the World Club Cup.

    I do think US teams would fair well against European Teams, so I would promote a some kind of tournament !

    M
  12. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    sleazo its because of people like you that this thread exists.

    The level of professional baseball in the US far exceeds that of any other league. MLB collects the best talent the world has to offer. This is not arrogance it is the truth. You must not know too much about baseball.

    How can you possibly say that without sounding arrogant ? How would know unless they invited teams from outside the US. I know why they don't, its because of fear. Fear that someone else might come in and beat America at its own game. If there is no fear, then why not invite other teams?

    Yes, I know very little about baseball, but I'm perfectly willing to admit that. I've been to an Orioles game though :D

    My whole point is that you call it the "World Series" as if no other countries in the world exist - that is arrogant. I'd like you to post proof that America is the best team, but you can't as they don't play other teams.

    M
  13. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    malkieD2,

    I think you may be confused about MLB. Each cities team is not comprised of only citizens of the corresponding cities. For instance, the Saint Louis Cardinals may have players from Canada, Japan, Cuba, and any other nation that they choose. They want the best players so that they can make the most money. MLB teams make money by drawing crowds. You draw crouds by winning games. Owners couldn't care less if their star 1st baseman was from Mars as long as he belted out a bunch of homers and helped the team win.
  14. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    oh, I realise that, as much as football teams in Europe have players from Brazil and South Korea (and even the USA :eek: )

    My point still stands - teams from which country play in the "World" Series ?
    Do any teams from the UK get invited ? Any teams from Japan ? Any teams from Cuba?

    M
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    How can you possibly say that without sounding arrogant ? How would know unless they invited teams from outside the US. I know why they don't, its because of fear. Fear that someone else might come in and beat America at its own game. If there is no fear, then why not invite other teams?


    It's really not a debatable point. The United States is light years beyond any other country (with the exception of Japan and Cuba) in baseball. You could invite other countries in, but only Cuba would stand a remote chance of not getting routed, and they would still lose by a fair margin. Players come from different countries, but you only have a relatively small amount of them, as opposed to the hundreds upon hundreds from here.

    The title of "World Series" has existed since 1903, by the way. Quite some time.
  16. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Thank you KW. It really is not arrogance it is the truth.


    And MalkieD-- It is not because of people like me that this thread exists. I happen to agree with most of the points being made as to why people do hate americans. My comment about baseball has nothing to do with me beingan american. It has to do with the fact that i follow the sport very closely. I even keep up on what gopes on in the Japanese leagues. Stop jumping to conclusions. Maybe if you actually knew something about baseball you wouldnt have jumped down my throat calling me a arrogant american.
  17. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Maybe if you actually knew something about baseball

    you are presuming to know my knowledge of baseball, this again is why you are arrogant.

    I too would have difficulty in debating that fact that America produces the best baseball players, coaches and teams. However, that is not my point.

    My sole point is that you call it the "World" Series when no teams outside of America are able to participate.

    You say the American League and the National League are "light years" ahead of the Japanese league. How do we know unless for example, the Yankees actually play the Yomiuri Giants in a proper non-exhibition match ?

    M

    edit: here's an idea - how about the top two teams from America play against the top two teams in Japan at the end of the season ? It would give the Japanese league something to work hard all season for, thus improving their generally level of play, perhaps one day producing a team that might actually give the Yankees (for example) a decent game.

    This is more or less what happened with Cricket in England - they took it to Indian, Pakistan, Austrialia and now they produce teams that regularly beat England. (I'm not a cricket fan, don't ask me to take that point further).
  18. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    So, you hate us because somebody in 1903 named the MLB championships "The World Series"?

    Down with Alexander Cartwright and his "Baseball"! He has alienated us from the world! Why Alexander, WHY??!!!!!!
  19. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    [face_laugh].

    But really, that's the truth. There wasn't any slight intended a hundred years ago when the term and series was coined. Maybe someday, MLB will expand beyond North America. Just so happens that America is far and away the best baseball country in the world. I don't think anyone with a good knowledge of baseball would argue against that. There are players from other countries, and that's as close as you're going to get to a "world" series at the moment.
  20. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Stop accusing people of arrogance. The fact is you dont know too much about baseball, that is evident in your posts. And World Series is an antiquated term from the turn of the century created by the same culture that produced carnival barkers. Baseball is a sport where history is very important so the name doesnt change.

    Oh and we do send all star teams over to japan after the season is over on publicity tours. It might be interesting to see the Yanks play a Japanese team. But i dont control baseball, call Bud Selig
  21. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    I never said I hated anyone.

    I'm merely providing helping you understand why some people do.

    It was arrogant to call it the "World" Series in 1903, and it remains so now. I think you should correct the title to reflect todays world.

    People from outside the US know you call it the "World" Series, so if you wanted to be more liked around the world, either change the title or invite a few teams from outside the US to participate.

    I am attempting to answer the question in this thread.

    M
  22. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    And political correctness would strike again.

  23. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Well, I am convinced. I am going to circulate a petition! I won't rest until the Arizona Diamondbacks successfully defend their self-proclaimed "world" series crown against the likes of Zimbabwe and Potugal!

  24. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    ok, here's another item for the list of why people hate america

    refusal to acknowledge that using the word "World" in a competition that does not include teams outside America in inappropriate.

    I find the comments I am receiving comical. Someone posts a thread asking why people hate america - I post a suggestion, then get abuse for suggesting it.

    Kind of ironic really, and defineatly makes my point.

    Well done guys

    Malcolm
  25. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
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