Why do they hate us?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by The1, Jun 9, 2002.

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  1. Emilie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2002
    star 3
    Well, I'll help you developp a little.
    here are hints for you to tell me your side of the story :
    - Bush rejected ONU's proposition of an international court of justice. My point of view is that he is afraid that would take away some of his absolute power. He doesn't want to share it, he want's it all! Think a little : "other countries discussing the world's justice? That would mean we wouldn't decide it all, then?!"
    Why do you think he rejected it? (and rather than opposing to my arguments, give me some.)

    - Bush also rejected the ONU's decision to send inspectors into jails, to make sure the prisonners are not tortured. My point of view is that he wants to be able to torture everybody he wants in his jails, especially afghans terrorists! Does being a prisonner stop them from being humans? Who is he to juge of this?!
    And as I said before : Why do you think he rejected it? (and rather than opposing to my arguments, give me some.)

    - Bush rejected Kyoto's treaty about ecology. My point of view is that he wants to be able to pollute freely and just as much as he wants, because it's worth a lot of money. He wants to digg oil wells in Alaska, among other pollution projects that would certainly not help the ozone's hole! But does he care about the ozone? Why should it, it's not above the USA! So until it is, let's make as much money as possible!
    Why do you think he rejected it? (and rather than opposing to my arguments, give me some.)


    You got the way I see this (and I'm sharing this opinion with a lot of people here). Now give me the way YOU explain all this?!
  2. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I am not interested in debating the actual subjects. I am not knowledgable or educated enough in them to do that. I was simply pointing out the fact that there are multiple sides to every issue.
  3. Emilie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2002
    star 3
    Come on!!!!!!
    I am asking you! You must have an opinion. In the other case, that would mean you actualy didn't think about it and have been repeating what you heard on CNN lately.
    Any american to explain me these three facts?!!!
    ANYONE!
  4. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    "we are the most gluttonous, apathetic, pompous, polluting, wasteful, hypocritcal nation on the face of the earth right now..."

    I would like to point out that we learned from the best. Before you go insulting our culture, realize where it has been derived from.

    Personally, I could care less why you hate my country. It's absurd, an ugly form of twisted nationalism. I was born outside of the United States, yet I am glad that I live here.
  5. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Actually, I neither watch nor read CNN.

    I don't have much of an opinion on the subjects, primarily because I am not very informed about them.

    I try not to make ill-informed opinions.
  6. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    obhavekenobi78 I hope you don't think I said those comments, I quoted someone else. Before you leave with the impression that I hate America and Americans, I'd like to assure you that I don't

    I have however, tried to illustrate a reason why people from outside the US might be displeased by your nation, its ideas and attitudes.

    I don't hate anyone. I live in Washington DC, a move I certainly wouldn't have made if I didn't like the USA. I'll be happy to return to my own country when my time here is up, but then I think everyone is entitled to live where they wish.

    M
  7. Emilie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2002
    star 3
    Well. as we say here in jokes (is it really?).
    "Europe colonized the USA. And then Europe evoluted while the USA didn't... They are still in the same imperialism mind as 200 years ago."

    Grow up america!!!!

    Europe and america share the same culture : occident. What you are doing, we did before, as terrible as it can get. Get through with it!
    And still, those attacks touched NYC and not Europe! How representative of imperialism can the USA be, then?!
  8. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    KnightWriter,

    "I try not to make ill-informed opinions."

    Those are my specialty. If you ever find yourself requiring an ill-informed opinion, you just let me know. Okay?

    Which brings me to my next point. Was it not France who invented the SUV? I rest my case.
  9. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Is it really necessary to use so many exclamation points?

    It's hard to take someone seriously when they give the impression they are yelling in every post.
  10. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Emilie, the reason they didn't attack Europe is because Europe is useless.

    You don't care what happens else where because you've lost the ability to effect change anywhere.

    I'm sure your short sighted moralistic nationalism is great but the cost of lives it would take to prove you wrong depresses me.
  11. Emilie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2002
    star 3
    What's SUV?

    I putt exclamation points because it translates my sentence tone. Do you only putt excalmation points when you yell? They have other uses, you know! (here, for example)
    Besides, avoiding arguments as I am asking you and pointing out things as superfluous as ponctuation only make me feel like you don't have an opinion about this...
    Oh well...

    -going to dinner talk to you later-
  12. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I am not avoiding an argument/debate. I am simply saying that I do not know enough to properly discuss the issues you wish to discuss. It's just not going to happen.

    And thank you for the exclamation point explanation. I have long wondered why people outside the United States seem to use them differently. Here, we just use them to get across yelling for the most part. They are used sparingly.
  13. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
  14. Ramalal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    I'm not sure that Europe is Unless, the Europe have the force to Destroy 25X the U.S. with Nuke...please inform yourself ! But if attack somebody is more useless than to have Morality.....

    the rest is yours...
  15. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    "The world" hates us because (in MANY people's opinions) we are the most gluttonous, apathetic, pompous, polluting, wasteful, hypocritcal nation on the face of the earth right now...not because of trivial things like calling the world series, the WORLD series.

    i think the World Series thing falls under "pompous."
  16. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Pompous?

    Goodness gracious, I don't think there was every any ill intent in 1903, nor has there been since then.
  17. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    I would say that the vast majority of Americans tend to ignore anything outside of their little borders, unless they think it will somehow effect them. For being part of a "global society" we seem to be awful isolationist.



    (Looking for a ring for Emile!) ;)
  18. Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I would say that the vast majority of Americans tend to ignore anything outside of their little borders, unless they think it will somehow effect them. For being part of a "global society" we seem to be awful isolationist.

    Absolutely. That is why our government has so much power and interest in the rest of the world. Because our citizens would rather turn a blind eye to what we do elsewhere in the world as long as gas is cheaper than bottled water.
  19. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    Darth_Olsen_Twins...It's nice to see that great minds think alike! :p

    Really though, I agree. Americans want all of the goods and benefits...cheap clothes, affordable oil, etc. but aren't willing to admit the HUMAN cost overseas that it often takes to get them these goods. (I.E. sweatshops in A LOT of the Asian continent to produce brand-name clothing...(some of which get "Made in the U.S.A." labels attached to them later!) Or the American companines that move to Mexico to avoid (slightly) tougher U.S. environmental laws, and help to make places like Mexico City a cesspool.

    Like I said before...I think we are a selfish, gluttonous, ungrateful lot. Most people around the world would kill to have the "choices" we have when we go to the supermarket and be AMAZED and disgusted by the amount of food and goods that we simply WASTE. I can easily understand why so many view the U.S. as "evil".
  20. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    i think the World Series thing falls under "pompous."

    Have we really gone so far that the "World Series" is offensive? It's part of our culture, and it's never going to change. I love how the same people who find the "World Series" offensive are the same ones who yell at us to keep out of others cultures. Hey, practice what you preach.

    Besides, a Canadian team won a few so technically a team outside the US has won a "World Series". ;)

    Ok...I'll bite......

    - Bush rejected ONU's proposition of an international court of justice. My point of view is that he is afraid that would take away some of his absolute power. He doesn't want to share it, he want's it all! Think a little : "other countries discussing the world's justice? That would mean we wouldn't decide it all, then?!"
    Why do you think he rejected it? (and rather than opposing to my arguments, give me some.)


    How about the fact that it goes against our Constitution?

    - Bush also rejected the ONU's decision to send inspectors into jails, to make sure the prisonners are not tortured. My point of view is that he wants to be able to torture everybody he wants in his jails, especially afghans terrorists! Does being a prisonner stop them from being humans? Who is he to juge of this?!
    And as I said before : Why do you think he rejected it? (and rather than opposing to my arguments, give me some.)


    Because they're not. I mean, some of the prisoners in Guantanemo Bay have been treated for depression for crying out loud. I mean if you're gonna torture them, you're not gonna put them on a shrink's couch!!!!!
  21. Southernjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 4
    - Bush rejected ONU's proposition of an international court of justice. My point of view is that he is afraid that would take away some of his absolute power. He doesn't want to share it, he want's it all! Think a little : "other countries discussing the world's justice? That would mean we wouldn't decide it all, then?!"

    Because, it's about our sovereignty.
    The U.S. has always been a sovereign country, since we gained our freedom in the American Revolution.

    We feel no one has the right to dictate what we do within our own borders. That's what sovereignty is about. As long as you're not invading other nations or committing mass murder (like the Holocaust) or something equally heignous, then you as a nation state have the right not to have a foreign body dictate to you.

    President Bush feels --rightly so-- that certain factions in the UN would use the international court of justice to make political attacks against American citizens. Our people are already singled out for terrorist attacks around the world, but this would take things to a new level. Look at all the verbal abuse thrown our way. Can you imagine a country like Iraq, Cuba, North Korea, Libya, etc. making up stuff and demanding that Bush or some other prominent person be dragged away for a trial? Or American troops taking part in a peacekeeping force, like in Bosnia, things being made up about them.

    There are a lot of people and countries in the world that don't like America. Whether they are right or wrong, there are some who would love anything that would allow them an excuse to hurt us.

    For that reason, Bush rightly is against us joining the international court.
  22. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    They are used sparingly.

    Judging from the number of American kids I've seen writing like this, "Metal RULLEZ!!!!!!!111" I don't think you use them any more sparely then Europeans Knightwriter.

    Just clearing that up ;)
  23. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah. Us Americans (especially the youngens) are often quite guilty of hyperbole.
  24. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Ferelwookie,

    "Really though, I agree. Americans want all of the goods and benefits...cheap clothes, affordable oil, etc. but aren't willing to admit the HUMAN cost overseas that it often takes to get them these goods. (I.E. sweatshops in A LOT of the Asian continent to produce brand-name clothing...(some of which get "Made in the U.S.A." labels attached to them later!) Or the American companines that move to Mexico to avoid (slightly) tougher U.S. environmental laws, and help to make places like Mexico City a cesspool."

    This is really a question for every American who believes the above statement. What are you doing about it? It's one thing to be ignornant and turn a blind eye to these global issues, it's another to recognize them as you have and do nothing. I would think as a member of the global society outside of the United States that I would be more angered by the person who knowingly continued these traits. So, again my question is what do you do to rememdy this situation?
  25. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    To be brutally honest...not enough. I won't lie and say I'm not a BIT hypocritical myself, but I do what my (rather lower-class) self can do. I won't pretend that I'm the most politically activite person, but I DO make concious decisions based on the info I have been given. I DO, refuse to buy clothing, or products that I KNOW have been made in foreign sweatshops that use child-labor.

    I also do my best not to be wasteful, even going so far as to walking/biking to the store, and re-using/recycling grocery bags etc. among other things. Of course, all of these things are just a drop in the bucket, and my "sacrifices" are essentially irrealvent when so many Americans are seemingly unwilling just to walk (a mile or 2) occasionally instead of taking the car.

    Like I said, I don't know what else I can really do, other than trying to be true to what I believe in. I probably could do more, but I DO try to live by what I say. I also try to be conscious of WHERE the product I buy come from and the conditions that they are made under. I am just beginning my own family now, and don't have much time to be a "protestor" or political activist, nor do I have the money it would take to work for a non-profit group. But, as my son gets older, and I get (some) more free-time, I hope to be more involved in human-rights, envirnomental causes etc.
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