why do you hate EU?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Kingpin, Aug 14, 2002.

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  1. Kingpin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2002
    star 2
    i've noticed some people on these threads hate the EU. how come?
  2. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    'Cause it stinks, and 'cause it undermines the movies and makes a mockery of the hero's journey that is so central to SW.

    And 'cause of that abomination of a character, Mara Jade.

    Kill the EU, George. Kill it now. Kill it before it gets even worse.
  3. Abhors Elder Guest

    Member Since:
    I love EU. I want to sit an EU buff and a purely cannon person down for a trivia contest sometime. Lets see who will win. ;)
  4. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    1) The stories aren't good.
    2) The characters from the saga have been destroyed and minimalized.
    3) The new characters are soulless and generic.
    4) The events are too wacky, such as no one can really die, they're always cloned, etc.
    5) And to many of us, the "Star Wars" saga is just Anakin's story of the six movies. The EU we'll generally accept is the games, because they're fun to play, regardless of the storyline. :p
  5. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I only hate it after they made Luke turn to the Darkside and turn back again in Dark Empire, and brought the Emperor and Boba Fett back.

    And I cant stand people saying it is canon :p
  6. Abhors Elder Guest

    Member Since:
    lol. I have that Dark Empire Luke action figure. I like how they brought Fett back, but I thought the emporer idea was a little far fetched.
  7. GrandMoffTarkin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 5
    I am not a completist, nor am I a purist. I accept some parts of EU, such as Thrawn, SOTE and the X-wing series, yet there are others I won't accept as part of my own idea of the continuity, such as Dark Empire, since the re-birth of the Emperor undermines everything in the Saga. But I can't help but love most of it because of all the useless trivia! ;)
  8. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    And I cant stand people saying it is canon

    The EU is canon :p

    (Just my opinion, not stating it as fact)

    I dislike a couple of aspects about the EU. The characterizations of Han and Luke in some of the lesser liked EU books are terrible. For example, in the Crystal Star Luke was totally out of character. Another thing I dislike was how they killed off Chewbacca. They could have started using him more instead of killing him off.

    But I love the EU as a whole and I am a completist. Especially the prequel trilogy EU. Characters like Aalya Secura and Quinlan Vos keep me tied over until the next Star Wars movie comes out.
  9. Fire_Light Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 5
    I don't hate the EU. I enjoy pretty mauch all of Star Wars, whether it's the movies, novels, comics, or games. That doesn't mean I love it all, but I don't let the stuff I don't like(whether, novel movie, whatever) detract from the things I enjoy. But that's just me.
  10. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    Vaderbait:

    1) The stories aren't good.
    which have you read? I will say that a few are not good.
    2) The characters from the saga have been destroyed and minimalized.
    Which characters? Chewie was the character chosen, because GL wanted a OT character killed off, he didn't care which one.
    3) The new characters are soulless and generic.
    How? Most are better than the movie characters!
    4) The events are too wacky, such as no one can really die, they're always cloned, etc.
    The only clone was the Emperor
    5) And to many of us, the "Star Wars" saga is just Anakin's story of the six movies.
    this is fine, this is the "purists" ways.
    The EU we'll generally accept is the games, because they're fun to play, regardless of the storyline.
    But how can you accept the games, if you cannot accept the literature?

    I am not being arguementative, I just want to understand how you can make blanket statements.
  11. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Nor do I allow, say, one mere disliked character or story to cause me to issue a massive blanket-condemnation of the entire EU.
  12. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    I don't hate the EU.
    I just don't bother with it anymore after reading some of those post-ROTJ novels.
  13. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    which have you read? I will say that a few are not good.

    And I will say that most are not good.

    Which characters? Chewie was the character chosen, because GL wanted a OT character killed off, he didn't care which one.

    No, because Del Rey wanted to kill an OT character off, and GL didn't want it to be one of the Big Three, so he (reluctantly) approved Chewie.

    Here are the characters who've been destroyed or minimalized:

    Anakin Skywalker (Mara Jade's very existence makes a mockery of him)

    Luke (turned into a wussy wimp who lets everyone walk all over him, particularly Mara)

    Han (what is the story with him, anyway? It keeps changing)

    Leia (turned into a workaholic, husband walks out on her, brother ignores her, kids deride her, youngest kid dies, she's brutally tortured--and of course she doesn't compare to the wonderful, beautiful Mara Jade)

    Chewie (killed)

    Yoda and Obi Wan (the NJO actually has the nerve to say they weren't that great, and imply that Mara Jade knows more about the Force than they do)

    How? Most are better than the movie characters!

    Hardly. They are Mary Sues/Gary Stus who are artificially made "better" than the movie characters and are brought to the forefront and fawned over while the movie characters are left begging.

    I want to see the movie characters. Not a bunch of obnoxious authors' pets.

    The only clone was the Emperor

    That was bad enough. His clonings and resurrections undermine the movies.

    But how can you accept the games, if you cannot accept the literature?

    The games are games. They don't purport to be part of the story. The "literature" does, and it undermines and makes a mockery of the SW story.
  14. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    And 'cause of that abomination of a character, Mara Jade.

    is that your only argument Shelly? becuase you dont like a single character?

    i will admit Jade is overdone and is very annoying some times. but there is always that one character that people love to write. mostly because she is so populer among fans.

    Like everything, the EU as its ups and downs. i Find myself continuously reading the works of Zahn, Stackpole, and Allston but some books, like The Crystal Star i will never pick up again. and i wouldent touch Dark Empire with a ten foot pole(sorry Nichos).
  15. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I would rather miss out on the EU's version of SW. Because it isn't SW. It's some crappy ripoff of it. It turns a story rich with mythic resonance into a generic sci-fi story, with grating pet characters taking center stage while the characters I care about are abused, ruined, and shoved to the side.

    Had the EU been a lot of independent stories, not tying in with each other (like Star Trek EU), then I wouldn't mind it. But this continuity stuff drives me bats, not least because it makes it seem like the EU is the real story. It isn't. It's speculative fiction.
  16. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    is that your only argument Shelly?--

    Shelley.

    becuase you dont like a single character?

    No. I made several other arguments as well, although I'm not surprised you overlooked them.
  17. Fire_Light Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 5
    If Lucas really thought that the books and comics made a mockery out if his films, don't you think that he wouldn't approve them?
  18. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I rather enjoy some of the EU. But even the "good" stuff is not that good.

  19. Fire_Light Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 5
    Many common fans and critcs feel the same way about the movies.
  20. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    If Lucas really thought that the books and comics made a mockery out if his films,

    I didn't say he thought that. I said I thought that.

    don't you think that he wouldn't approve them?

    He ignores them, mostly. They don't do any harm in his mind because they exist outside his universe (his words); they're a parallel universe (his words again). He doesn't get too involved with them; he gives an idea here and there (he's been more involved with the prequel EU than the post-ROTJ EU) and rubber stamp approval.

    Basically, they're a way for him to make money without doing any work. Unlike the movies, which he has direct and extensive involvement in. They're the real story. The books are just tie in products.
  21. Alion_Sangre Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    star 4
    No, because Del Rey wanted to kill an OT character off, and GL didn't want it to be one of the Big Three, so he (reluctantly) approved Chewie.

    PPOR. As far as I know nobody has any clue how deeply GL is involved with the EU other than that he permits its existence. Given how much trouble he went through to monopolize all the licensing and other aspects of the saga, I assume that means he at least tolerates it.
  22. Nichos_Marr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    so he (reluctantly) approved Chewie.

    Reluctantly? Were you standing beside him? PPOR.

    The games are games. They don't purport to be part of the story.

    I guess you've never played Jedi Knight II then.

    His clonings and resurrections undermine the movies.

    Not if you look at it from a different point of view.

    Hardly. They are Mary Sues/Gary Stus who are artificially made "better" than the movie characters and are brought to the forefront and fawned over while the movie characters are left begging.

    One word for you: Republic. Aalya Secura and Quinlan Vos are hardly the most powerful prequel Jedi around, but that doesn't make their stories any less enjoyable. Neither of them fall under the category of Mary Stu or Gary Stu, yet their stories don't really include movie prequel characters.

    and i wouldent touch Dark Empire with a ten foot pole(sorry Nichos).

    No problem, a lot of people hate Dark Empire. Well I know I liked it and so did Lucas. :D

    But this continuity stuff drives me bats, not least because it makes it seem like the EU is the real story. It isn't. It's speculative fiction.

    Yeah and I guess the Star Wars movies are non-fiction :)

  23. SirLancelot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    i wrote that the same time as your previous post so i did not see it before i posted.


    Star Trek EU-Ew, just like the rest of it there is no really continuality its just a general story line with no connections from Episode to epdisode or book to book. i dont like that idea.

    how would you like to pick up a book set some, say 20 post-RoTJ, with no links to anyhting else. most of the book would have to keep rehashing the history so you know what is going on in the present. by having a persisten timeline then a book can concintrate on the story and not the history as in that book.
  24. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Many common fans and critcs feel the same way about the movies.

    So what?
  25. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5

    PPOR.


    As soon as you PPOR that Lucas wanted to kill off an OT character.
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