why do you hate EU?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Kingpin, Aug 14, 2002.

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  1. Jedi_Bratzilla Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 1
    Shelley, give it up.

    Yes, I said it. Let them have it.

    It does not matter that the EU is a perversion of the Star Wars universe, and a travesty against the beauty,
    scope and grandeur of the story. Such concepts are lost on these "sheeple."

    What really gets me is that people who are so proud of their alleged "literacy" come into a CLEARLY MARKED
    anti-EU thread and then have the nerve to act upset and shocked.

    What part of "anti-EU" do these intellectual lilliputians not understand? These pseudo-intellectual, hypocritical, self-absorbed, self-righteous, intolerant, over-pampered, immature, small-minded, trivial, egotistical ********s really do need to get a life.

    Then again, I should probably take pity on those with disabilities. EUltzheimers is only the natural end result, casued by the ingestion of aforementioned mental feces to the point where you forget what Star Wars is all about, confusing this pap-on-paper for the true story. Really, they are to be pitied.

    Listen up, EU fans: you can have it, all of it, each and every new nugget. You can have your Emperor's Hand (jobs) your Force-negators, and your "new improved" Force theories. No matter how hard Zahn, Lucerno, Tyers, "Bria" Crispin, et al, try to make it palatable, crap still stinks.

    Speaking of which, I see a new EU novel is being launched right now...

    [image=http://users.soulofthejedi.net/jedibratzilla/EUpoop.jpg]
  2. SirLancelot Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    star 4
    i try to stop the bashing of each other and look what happens, a purist upsets it.

    Edit: nevermind, this has been no fun scince Shelley left, im going to find someone to lock it so we dont keep bashing each other
  3. Sreya Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 2
    *deep breaths, Sreya, deep breaths*

    Why do I hate the EU? Well, I guess technically, I don't. There are many, many things about the EU that I strongly dislike (the NJO comes pretty close to hatred) but I have no objection to the concept of writing about Star Wars, speculating on it, etc. My absolute biggest peeve lately has been that the novels being published would never be able to be made into PG movies. When I'm warning my mother not to let my preteen sister read the books, there's something seriously wrong. I also dislike that the EU would rather focus on the typical sci-fi issues rather than the fantasy themes I enjoy in the films. And I'm disappointed that it handled Luke's transition from hero-figure to mentor-figure so, so badly.

    What do I hate ABOUT the EU? The way that it is held up and glorified. I've heard so many arguments it's ridiculous. This thread doesn't even begin to cut it, though it contains many of the most frustrating ones. The worst I've ever seen is an accusation that someone isn't a Star Wars fan because they don't like the books. It's been a while since I've seen someone brave enough to say it straight out around here, but I've seen it.

    I'll tell you something. I know many people who ADORE Star Wars, but have never even heard of the books or comics. They'll have the t-shirts, the posters, even some of the toys, but when you ask if they've read the books, their reaction is "Huh?"

    Guess what. They're still Star Wars fans.

    That's what the concept of "canon" is supposed to be about. The only thing you HAVE to know about Star Wars is what's in the movies. Period. You don't NEED to know a single piece of information beyond that. You can talk about SW, enjoy SW, dress in the costumes, whatever, and not know anything beyond what's in the movies.

    Somehow, the EU has caused a split, so that a Star Wars fan board is in a constant battle about it. It spreads discontent and malice... and the more of the EU there is, the more fighting I see.

    I've been part of the SW online fandom for over 6 years now, and loved Star Wars for MANY years longer, and from the computer screen at which I sit, the EU is the worst thing to have ever happened to SW fans.

    Sreya
  4. Imperial_Guard Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    Good post, Sreya. A little more diplomatic than JediBratzilla. [face_laugh]

    EDIT: I'd also like to point out that "hate" is a strong word. I don't actually "hate" the EU or NJO either even if I use it as a figure of speech from time to time just as many people do.

  5. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Nice post, Sreya...that about wraps it all up! Now hopefully a mod will come by...
  6. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    What part of "anti-EU" do these intellectual lilliputians not understand? These pseudo-intellectual, hypocritical, self-absorbed, self-righteous, intolerant, over-pampered, immature, small-minded, trivial, egotistical ********s really do need to get a life.

    My, how sad. :(

    I find it truly ironic that in a post of this nature, Jedi-Bratzilla claims that EU fans are small minded.

    Are you so open-minded? Are you accepting of EUers and their opinions? Clearly, as evidenced in this post, you are not.

    Yes, yes. The completists are ALL hypocrites that should be condemned, blah blah blah. Because you, Bratzilla, are so much more open-minded and enlightened.

    Tell me one more time what a hypocrite is? [face_plain]

    This tension doesn't have to exist. I hang out in the EUDF thread quite a bit, and I can guarantee you that we do not spend our spare time, bashing the purists. You, on the other hand, play a large role in a forum in which the bashing of EU fans is a main point. You won't find any "Why do you hate purists?" threads over in the Lit. forums, or EUC. It is only here, in the movie forums, where the enlightened and open-minded purists, create threads such as these.

    Tell me again how open-minded you are.

    JMA
  7. Imperial_Guard Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    You won't find any "Why do you hate purists?" threads over in the Lit. forums, or EUC. It is only here, in the movie forums, where the enlightened and open-minded purists, create threads such as these.

    This thread was created by a curious newbie who probably had no idea what a "purist" or a "completist" was or why this thread might be better suited in the misc. forum, until this thread exploded with responses.

    I can only speak for myself, but I really don't care about the EU and I hardly ever bring it up in any detail when I'm talking about the films. This is the first thread devoted solely to the EU in a film forum that I've seen since I've been posting here.
  8. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    You, on the other hand, play a large role in a forum in which the bashing of EU fans is a main point.

    Um...no. Like Imperial_Guard said...this is the first thread here on this subject since around Christmas time. And in that thread we had decided to stop bashing like this. It has been settled there. And I wish the bashing would stop in this thread too. We aren't proving a point by doing any of this...we're just going around in circles.

  9. jewlmc Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    Why do you hate EU

    'Cause I do. Sorry but I've beaten the reasons to death enough. I don't feel like explaining myself any further and don't think others should have to either.
  10. gwaernardel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I love how open-minded Star Wars fans can be. [face_love]

    How the hell does a thread like this stay open anyway?
  11. Darth_Prozac Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    I don't hate it all...
    I do hate the Yoozin Bongs, the New Jedi Order, and Mara Jade. Several reasons...
    1. Star Wars is a sci fi fairy tale and ROTJ was the "Happily Ever After".
    2. Mara Jade makes no sense with the canon of the films at all.
    3. The Yukon Schlongs seem very Star Trekish to me. The invaders from beyond the known realm that are nigh unbeatable...hmmn...where have I heard this before? Do they fly around in big cubes too?

    On the other hand I love the EU stuff for all the background characters. Like the aliens in the cantina and the bounty hunters. Rogue Squadron is pretty cool too.
  12. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    HanSolo:

    I was referring to Bratzilla's involvement with the Soul of the Jedi forums; a notably purist establishment. Not the CT forum in particular, as an EU bashing haven.

    JMA
  13. Sophita Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    I don't hate the EU, nor do I really like it...I just haven't read much (any, if you don't count the novelizations.). I think the main reason is all the SW books I've seen are set after ROTJ, which really doesn't interest me much. (And, after taking a few glances through a couple books, they looked kinda ...well, badly written...They brought Palpatine back? Bleh.)

    I'd love to read some pre-prequel/prequel/intertril/OT stuff, but I've never found any. :( Does anyone know a reference guide or such for the EU online or something?
  14. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    DP 1. Star Wars is a sci fi fairy tale and ROTJ was the "Happily Ever After".

    Where did you get "Fairy Tale" from? SW was never a FT, it was a Space Drama.
    BIG difference there.

    3. The Yukon Schlongs seem very Star Trekish to me. The invaders from beyond the known realm that are nigh unbeatable...hmmn...where have I heard this before? Do they fly around in big cubes too?

    It has been stated several times in the EU that they are in the known galaxy, that there is the Unknown Regions that even the Chiss, who have had encounters with elements from beyond, have said that New Rupblic/Imperial space would have great difficulties with.
  15. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Well, the originator of this thread asked a simple question, that being "why do you hate the EU?" And the various EU-detractors have responded. Some people have given various permutations on the idea that the Expanded Universe somehow goes against George Lucas' vision. Let me ask you a simle question:

    Do you know for certain what's going on in the mind of Lucas?

    Put another way, does EU go against Lucas' vision, or against your vision of Lucas' vision?

    In any event, it's neither here nor there, because as Syntax pointed out, it all amounts to OPINION. You can argue OPINION all the live long day, and no one is going to change.

    All that remains is to debate one another for the sake of keeping our wits sharpened. But understand that in the end, everyone has a right to their OPINION, and everyone should respect that.

    Having read the thread, the most vicious thing that I've seen a completist do has was to tell a purist to make an informed opinion. On the other hand, completists have been called "intellectual lilliputians, hypocritical, self-absorbed, self-righteous, intolerant, over-pampered, immature, small-minded, trivial, egotistical ********s" who "really do need to get a life."

    Speaks volumes about the levels of tolerance, doesn't it?
  16. Nichos_Marr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
  17. Daughter_of_Yubyub Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    You won't find any "Why do you hate purists?" threads over in the Lit. forums, or EUC.

    Of course not. Threads for the express purpose of hating another kind of fan are considered trolling there, and they get locked.

    We aren't proving a point by doing any of this...we're just going around in circles.

    Thank you. Nothing ever changes in a thread like this. People just get really mad.

    Mara Jade makes no sense with the canon of the films at all.

    Reasons please!

    I'd love to read some pre-prequel/prequel/intertril/OT stuff, but I've never found any

    Just off the top of my head:
    Pre-prequel= Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
    Prequel= Rogue Planet, The Approaching Storm
    Intertril= The Han Solo Trilogy
    OT= The Han Solo Adventures, The Lando Calrissian Adventures, Shadows of the Empire

    I know it's not a complete list, and it doesn't even touch on kids books and comics.
  18. Nichos_Marr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
    Well I see Jedi_Bratzilla had nothing to contribute to this thread other than a lot of EU fan bashing. [face_plain]

    That Ad-hominem attack that a lot of you use is really getting old. This thread asks why people hate the EU and instead Jedi_Bratzilla has to come in and give Purists a bad name by resorting to nothing less than silly name calling.

    What really gets me is that people who are so proud of their alleged "literacy" come into a CLEARLY MARKED anti-EU thread and then have the nerve to act upset and shocked.

    There's a reason we came in here, and no it wasn't to flame purists. Wow, what a surprise. No, it was to make sure that this whole thread would turn into a EU bash-fest. There are people that can come in here and diplomatically offer a ton of reasons why they don't like the EU, and then there's people like you who can't resist the chance of EU-bashing.

    What part of "anti-EU" do these intellectual lilliputians not understand? These pseudo-intellectual, hypocritical, self-absorbed, self-righteous, intolerant, over-pampered, immature, small-minded, trivial, egotistical ********s really do need to get a life.

    What did those sentences serve? Did they make you feel better? Did they make you feel smarter? Wow, you have the ability to insult others, u're teh kewlest. [face_plain]

    Then again, I should probably take pity on those with disabilities. EUltzheimers is only the natural end result, casued by the ingestion of aforementioned mental feces to the point where you forget what Star Wars is all about, confusing this pap-on-paper for the true story. Really, they are to be pitied.

    Once again, we are blessed with the arrogance that some of the purists in these thread flaunt endlessly. You all seem to know the true vision and the true story of Star Wars and if another person's opinion differs for a second they are wrong. Good, go work for George Lucas :)

    Listen up, EU fans: you can have it, all of it, each and every new nugget. You can have your Emperor's Hand (jobs) your Force-negators, and your "new improved" Force theories. No matter how hard Zahn, Lucerno, Tyers, "Bria" Crispin, et al, try to make it palatable, crap still stinks.

    Thank you, I will enjoy my EU and no insult that you can sling out will stop that :) . Oh and none of your opinions will stop any more EU books/comics/video games and what not from being made. Maybe you could find something more productive to do with your time other than complain about something that you can't change. :)
  19. gwaernardel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Thanks, folks, for making us purists look bad. :mad:
  20. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    ooohhh the hostility, is right!

    I can go with Opinions, that is not a problem, but they have to be informed opinions. I myself have made in the past, uninformed opinions and when it came to debate/arguement, I got fed to the lions. I am trying not to do that here. I hope that I have been somewhat successful.
  21. Daughter_of_Yubyub Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    We never said purists are bad. I have absolutely nothing against purists. It's just bashers that I don't like. I don't like bashers of any sort.
  22. gwaernardel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Actually, I was referring more to the angry hostile purists (such as Jedi_Bratzilla). They make the calm, accepting purists here look bad.
  23. Daughter_of_Yubyub Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    That they are. We completists really appreciate you calm accepting purists, incidently. We can usually tell which is which.
  24. Face Loran Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 1999
    star 4
    "Then again, I should probably take pity on those with disabilities. EUltzheimers is only the natural end result, casued by the ingestion of aforementioned mental feces to the point where you forget what Star Wars is all about, confusing this pap-on-paper for the true story. Really, they are to be pitied."

    The true story?! Do I actually have to remind you that this is fiction, written about other fiction? The seriousness with which you refer to the "true story" is laughable, like we're discussing some religious text. It's all just an entertainment franchise. Lighten up.
  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    >> 2. Mara Jade makes no sense with the canon of the films at all.<<

    I'm curious to understand how the Emperor having a personal assassin who is force sensitive (but not trained as a Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith/whatever) makes no sense in regards to the films?

    >>I'd love to read some pre-prequel/prequel/intertril/OT stuff, but I've never found any. Does anyone know a reference guide or such for the EU online or something?<<

    http://www.theforce.net/books/reviews/novels_chrono.shtml has a listing of the major novels in chronological order, along with reviews from the TF.N book staff. (Note it doesn't list Young Reader material, which includes two large series set during the prequel era- Jedi Apprentcie, which details Obi-Wan's training under Qui-Gon, and Jedi Quest, which details Anakin's training under Obi-Wan.)

    theforce.net/timeline has every source listed in chronological order.

    I'd personally reccomend Cloak of Deception and Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, which make an excellent prelude to TPM and actually make that film alot more enjoyable.

    For material between TPM and AOTC, the ongoing comic series has had several high quality story arcs available in TPB now (Twilight and Darkness especially).

    For OT-era stuff, the Han Solo trilogy and Han Solo adventures are often highly enjoyed, and the novel Shadows of the Empire bridges ESB and ROTJ.

    There's also a comic series called Tales of the Jedi which detail the ancient Jedi (4,000 years before ANH) which is also very very good (in fact, the last story arc, "Redemption", is often considered one of the best EU stories ever), the main story arc is composed of "Knights of the Old Republic", "The Freedon Nadd Uprising", "Dark Lords of the Sith", "The Sith War" and "Redemption".

    A comic series called "Jedi vs Sith" is also available, which details the final battle between the Sith and Jedi prior to TPM, and features Darth Bane, who establishes the "rule of two" for the Sith. It's an ok story, but it does tie in to the film backstory so I mention it here.
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